Bowe Bergdahl: Missing in AFG 2009, Released 2014, Tried 2015
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PMedMoe said:
Or it could be deliberate. Some American flyers held PoW in North Vietnam and crewmembers of the USS Pueblo being held by the North Koreans deliberately assumed wooden, artificial, and out of character behaviors when "confessing" before the cameras to mollify their captors while conveying the message that they were being held under duress.
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Here are my thoughts:
It seems to me, that the captured solider is saying what he has been told to say.
This solider has been put through quite a lot, so that those who captured him could get him to this point (where he is saying what they want him to say).
In the video, the solider says he is a “Christian”, that doesn’t sound like he has converted to Islam to me and the solider having a new hair cut and clothes means nothing, other than that is likely what he was told to wear.
The solider wants to get back home and he is simply doing what he needs to (including saying, eating, wearing etc… what he has been told to do/say/wear), so as to hopefully increase his chances of returning home.
I’m sure there are many pieces of the puzzle missing, most pieces of which are unlikely to ever become known to the general population.
For all we know, and this is just a possible theory, this solider could have been drugged and/or had something else done to him to cause disorientation before he became separated from his unit and that is how they were able to get him to become separated… ... ... anything is possible.
In the video, they show the solider eating and drinking. This may have been the only descent meal he had been given since his capture and I wouldn’t be surprised if the meal had been drugged and/or was part of the tactics being used.
The new clothing the solider is wearing is rather loose fitting. I wonder if the loose clothing the solider has been told to wear is hiding his body's true state.
I'm not sure I understand the point of the Taliban capturing a U.S. soldier… just what do they think this will get from this; if anything, the Taliban will just make it worse for themselves for having stirred up such a hornets’ nest. To the best of my knowledge, the U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists, so I can’t see this getting the Taliban anywhere or anything they say they want in their demands. I wouldn't be surprised if the Taliban capturing this U.S. solider was part of a much larger Taliban plan at play. It just doesn’t make any sort of logically sense to ‘poke the bear’ by capturing a U.S. solider.
Just my 2 cents. :2c:
My heart and prayers go out to this solider and his loves ones. I can’t imagine what a difficult time this must be for everyone involved.
It seems to me, that the captured solider is saying what he has been told to say.
This solider has been put through quite a lot, so that those who captured him could get him to this point (where he is saying what they want him to say).
In the video, the solider says he is a “Christian”, that doesn’t sound like he has converted to Islam to me and the solider having a new hair cut and clothes means nothing, other than that is likely what he was told to wear.
The solider wants to get back home and he is simply doing what he needs to (including saying, eating, wearing etc… what he has been told to do/say/wear), so as to hopefully increase his chances of returning home.
I’m sure there are many pieces of the puzzle missing, most pieces of which are unlikely to ever become known to the general population.
For all we know, and this is just a possible theory, this solider could have been drugged and/or had something else done to him to cause disorientation before he became separated from his unit and that is how they were able to get him to become separated… ... ... anything is possible.
In the video, they show the solider eating and drinking. This may have been the only descent meal he had been given since his capture and I wouldn’t be surprised if the meal had been drugged and/or was part of the tactics being used.
The new clothing the solider is wearing is rather loose fitting. I wonder if the loose clothing the solider has been told to wear is hiding his body's true state.
I'm not sure I understand the point of the Taliban capturing a U.S. soldier… just what do they think this will get from this; if anything, the Taliban will just make it worse for themselves for having stirred up such a hornets’ nest. To the best of my knowledge, the U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists, so I can’t see this getting the Taliban anywhere or anything they say they want in their demands. I wouldn't be surprised if the Taliban capturing this U.S. solider was part of a much larger Taliban plan at play. It just doesn’t make any sort of logically sense to ‘poke the bear’ by capturing a U.S. solider.
Just my 2 cents. :2c:
My heart and prayers go out to this solider and his loves ones. I can’t imagine what a difficult time this must be for everyone involved.
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Well you have to eat something, and they aren't going to bring him burger king. You would eat whatever they eat, hell I'd convert for some food and tea/water. If things were looking real bad, hell I'd smoke some drugs too!
As for the clothes, well have you seen what people in that part of the world wear? I was driving in a major Canadian city on Friday, and even there some people dress in "man jammies" while they drive their Toyota corollas down the highway...it's a culture thing, and not a for sure that he has been harmed. I'd wear them if I got to live!
As for the clothes, well have you seen what people in that part of the world wear? I was driving in a major Canadian city on Friday, and even there some people dress in "man jammies" while they drive their Toyota corollas down the highway...it's a culture thing, and not a for sure that he has been harmed. I'd wear them if I got to live!
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While giving the soldier the benefit of the doubt its pretty clear that his actions qualify as an AWOL and quite possibly desertion. Whether this is the case we will only know if he is returned to US control. Ralph Peters comments on FOX were a bit over the top perhaps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xezi8wAGZZc&eurl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xezi8wAGZZc&eurl
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I don’t agree with what the captured solider is doing and saying in the video, but none the less, I can see the solider doing and saying that what he thinks will increase his chances of getting back home.
The solider 'might' be under the influence of drugs and/or brainwashing and/or worse, so there is a possibility that the soldier's brain may not be 'operational' and that he may not be responsible for that which he is saying and doing because he may not have the use reason or his free will… anything is possible.
I'm trying to give the solider the benefit of doubt, until proven, without a doubt, otherwise. I certainly hope the solider did not go AWOL, that would be terrible.
The solider 'might' be under the influence of drugs and/or brainwashing and/or worse, so there is a possibility that the soldier's brain may not be 'operational' and that he may not be responsible for that which he is saying and doing because he may not have the use reason or his free will… anything is possible.
I'm trying to give the solider the benefit of doubt, until proven, without a doubt, otherwise. I certainly hope the solider did not go AWOL, that would be terrible.
egy sárvédő said:
It's of massive propaganda value for the Taliban both in their part of the world, and ours. The Taliban look more powerful if they're able to capture a US soldier. Particularly since they make it seem like the overpowered an American soldier on patrol and they weren't able to stop it. Then you get all the news agency's in the Western world playing it, and goofs like Ralph Peters telling his own Country "If he did go AWOL, I hope they save us the time and legal costs."
For nations where there is doubt or disdain for the war, things like this ad to their fuel.
You guys can judge this guys conduct after capture all you want. You're obviously braver then I would be faced with dudes who might cut my head off with a rusty knife and post in on the internet for my wife and kids to see.
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For those who are interested... I thought this was an interesting read.
Title:
The Code of Conduct
Link:
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/code_of_conduct/the-code-of-conduct.shtml
On the same web page, there is a box to the left, just below where it lists the code of conduct. In this box, there are options for the code of conduct in more detail, including a pdf download for SERE training.
Title:
The Code of Conduct
Link:
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/code_of_conduct/the-code-of-conduct.shtml
On the same web page, there is a box to the left, just below where it lists the code of conduct. In this box, there are options for the code of conduct in more detail, including a pdf download for SERE training.
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Title: Family of captured soldier wants privacy in ordeal
By: JOHN MILLER, AP
Link: http://news.aol.com/article/family-of-captured-soldier-wants-privacy/577782?cid=12
News Story:
HAILEY, Idaho -The Pentagon said Monday that troops are "sparing no effort" to find an American soldier captured by the Taliban as his family pleaded for privacy and residents in his hometown tied yellow ribbons on trees along Main Street in a show of solidarity.
The actions came two days after the Taliban released a video of Pfc. Bowe R. Bergdahl in captivity expressing his fear that he would never see or hug his family again. The footage showed Bergdahl with his head shaved, eating a meal and sitting cross-legged on what appeared to be a bunk.
"We've been overwhelmed with the outpouring of support and concern towards Bowe and our family," the family said in a statement read by Blaine County Sheriff Walt Femling. "As you know, the situation is extremely difficult for everyone involved. We'd like to remind all of you our sole focus is seeing our beloved son Bowe safely home."
Defense Secretary Robert Gates condemned the video Monday, saying he was disgusted by the exploitation of a prisoner. "Our commanders are sparing no effort to find this young soldier," Gates said at a Pentagon news conference.
Bergdahl, 23, grew up just outside Hailey, a central Idaho resort town where residents said he was home-schooled, danced ballet and rode his bike everywhere in town. They also called him adventurous and said he joined the Army at least in part because he wanted to learn more about the world. He had been stationed at Fort Richardson, Alaska.
Bergdahl's parents, Bob and Jani Bergdahl, have refused requests to be interviewed, and the sheriff declined to answer personal questions about Bergdahl in a news conference that was televised nationally from this town of 7,000 people.
And few in town would speak openly about Bergdahl because of fears that any remarks might hurt the possibility of his safe return. The town learned about the capture in early July but kept quiet about the ordeal.
The circumstances of Bergdahl's capture on June 30 weren't clear.
On July 2, two U.S. officials told The Associated Press the soldier had "just walked off" his base with three Afghans after his shift. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record.
On July 6, the Taliban claimed on their Web site that five days earlier "a drunken American soldier had come out of his garrison" and was captured by mujahedeen.
Details of such incidents are routinely held very tightly by the military as it works to retrieve a missing or captured soldier without giving away any information to captors.
Officials with U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla., declined to give additional details of his capture.
President Barack Obama reacted to the news of the capture in an interview excerpt played on MSNBC Monday night.
"Our young men and women who are serving in the armed forces do an extraordinary job," he told NBC's "Today" program for a segment to be broadcast Tuesday. "They're put in harm's way each and every day, especially those deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. And so seeing something like this, it makes you think about their families, it makes you think about the young man. We are hopeful that it will have a good ending."
Bergdahl's family learned of his capture when a member of the Idaho National Guard came to their home in early July. Over the weekend of July 4, four service members who specialize in hostage events visited and told them what their son might be experiencing in captivity as well as what the military was doing to have him released.
Military officials in Afghanistan refused a request from the AP to interview fellow soldiers from Bergdahl's Army unit. Spokesman Navy Lt. Robert Carr in Kabul said the military was controlling the flow of information so nothing could be used against the other American forces or Bergdahl.
Not all family members of captured soldiers stay quiet about such situations. Keith Maupin, whose son was captured in Iraq in 2004, was vocal during the four years his 20-year-old son Pfc. Matt Maupin was missing before his body was found.
"I know if they stay quiet, they're not going to get any information," Maupin told the AP from his home in Ohio. "They've got to stay on top of it."
Some say the discretion exhibited in Hailey fits with the region's history of respecting the privacy of part-time celebrity visitors and residents such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tom Hanks, Bruce Willis and Demi Moore "It's just the way we are," said Hailey Chamber of Commerce Director Jim Spinelli.
By: JOHN MILLER, AP
Link: http://news.aol.com/article/family-of-captured-soldier-wants-privacy/577782?cid=12
News Story:
HAILEY, Idaho -The Pentagon said Monday that troops are "sparing no effort" to find an American soldier captured by the Taliban as his family pleaded for privacy and residents in his hometown tied yellow ribbons on trees along Main Street in a show of solidarity.
The actions came two days after the Taliban released a video of Pfc. Bowe R. Bergdahl in captivity expressing his fear that he would never see or hug his family again. The footage showed Bergdahl with his head shaved, eating a meal and sitting cross-legged on what appeared to be a bunk.
"We've been overwhelmed with the outpouring of support and concern towards Bowe and our family," the family said in a statement read by Blaine County Sheriff Walt Femling. "As you know, the situation is extremely difficult for everyone involved. We'd like to remind all of you our sole focus is seeing our beloved son Bowe safely home."
Defense Secretary Robert Gates condemned the video Monday, saying he was disgusted by the exploitation of a prisoner. "Our commanders are sparing no effort to find this young soldier," Gates said at a Pentagon news conference.
Bergdahl, 23, grew up just outside Hailey, a central Idaho resort town where residents said he was home-schooled, danced ballet and rode his bike everywhere in town. They also called him adventurous and said he joined the Army at least in part because he wanted to learn more about the world. He had been stationed at Fort Richardson, Alaska.
Bergdahl's parents, Bob and Jani Bergdahl, have refused requests to be interviewed, and the sheriff declined to answer personal questions about Bergdahl in a news conference that was televised nationally from this town of 7,000 people.
And few in town would speak openly about Bergdahl because of fears that any remarks might hurt the possibility of his safe return. The town learned about the capture in early July but kept quiet about the ordeal.
The circumstances of Bergdahl's capture on June 30 weren't clear.
On July 2, two U.S. officials told The Associated Press the soldier had "just walked off" his base with three Afghans after his shift. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record.
On July 6, the Taliban claimed on their Web site that five days earlier "a drunken American soldier had come out of his garrison" and was captured by mujahedeen.
Details of such incidents are routinely held very tightly by the military as it works to retrieve a missing or captured soldier without giving away any information to captors.
Officials with U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla., declined to give additional details of his capture.
President Barack Obama reacted to the news of the capture in an interview excerpt played on MSNBC Monday night.
"Our young men and women who are serving in the armed forces do an extraordinary job," he told NBC's "Today" program for a segment to be broadcast Tuesday. "They're put in harm's way each and every day, especially those deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. And so seeing something like this, it makes you think about their families, it makes you think about the young man. We are hopeful that it will have a good ending."
Bergdahl's family learned of his capture when a member of the Idaho National Guard came to their home in early July. Over the weekend of July 4, four service members who specialize in hostage events visited and told them what their son might be experiencing in captivity as well as what the military was doing to have him released.
Military officials in Afghanistan refused a request from the AP to interview fellow soldiers from Bergdahl's Army unit. Spokesman Navy Lt. Robert Carr in Kabul said the military was controlling the flow of information so nothing could be used against the other American forces or Bergdahl.
Not all family members of captured soldiers stay quiet about such situations. Keith Maupin, whose son was captured in Iraq in 2004, was vocal during the four years his 20-year-old son Pfc. Matt Maupin was missing before his body was found.
"I know if they stay quiet, they're not going to get any information," Maupin told the AP from his home in Ohio. "They've got to stay on top of it."
Some say the discretion exhibited in Hailey fits with the region's history of respecting the privacy of part-time celebrity visitors and residents such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tom Hanks, Bruce Willis and Demi Moore "It's just the way we are," said Hailey Chamber of Commerce Director Jim Spinelli.
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Pil said:
Pil,
I think the propaganda value for the type of videos you refer to (and in this case, please God, don't let this be the fate of this young soldier) can work both ways--the inherent violence in some of these videos and the taliban and al-Qaeda total lack of respect for the humane treatment of prisoners of war when placed in the public domain fuels public anger against the Taliban and the violent oppression they represent. So, for some people it justifies all the reasons ISAF is in Afghanistan fighting the insurgency.
So I might respectfully agree with you that there is some propaganda value in it but not so much as the enemy may think.
Edit: spelling
leroi said:
No doubt you're correct. I think all propaganda is a double edged sword, whichever side is distributing it.
I also have no doubt that they will exploit recent US scandals regarding treatment of prisoners, and no doubt will some of the left.
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Queries rise on soldier's kidnapping
Pentagon stays mum on how he left post
By Shaun Waterman THE WASHINGTON TIMES | Friday, July 24, 2009
Link:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/24/queries-rise-on-soldiers-kidnapping/
News Story:
A U.S. soldier kidnapped by the Taliban is at the center of an escalating controversy about how he came to be captured - an event that could be a propaganda bonanza for the insurgents.
The Pentagon declined to comment on allegations that Pfc. Bowe R. Bergdahl left his post unarmed on June 30 before his capture in eastern Afghanistan.
"All I can tell you is, the conditions surrounding his capture are under investigation," spokesman Lt. Col. Mark Wright told The Washington Times. "Its not wise at this point to reach conclusions prior to the investigation being completed."
Military blogger Matthew Burden, who runs the BlackFive Web site, told The Times that the soldier "walked off [his base] with a water bottle and [a military ration pack] on some kind of he-man expedition." He said he received this information from a contact involved in the massive manhunt the military has launched and confirmed it with two other sources.
Fox News military analyst retired Lt. Col. Ralph Peters sparked a firestorm of controversy last weekend when he called Pfc. Bergdahl a "deserter," adding that if that were the case, "the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills" by killing him.
Outraged lawmakers of both parties wrote to Fox News demanding an apology for the comments. The 23 House members, all U.S. military veterans, wrote that they watched the comments "with incredulity and disgust," adding that Mr. Peters view was "was repulsive and deserves to be repudiated by your news organization."
The Republican signatories include Reps. Darrell Issa and Duncan Hunter, both from California.
Mr. Peters told The Times Thursday that he regretted his remarks.
"I unquestionably over-spoke in the heat of the moment," he said. "I hope Pfc. Bergdahl comes home safely for the sake of his family, and so he can face military judicial proceedings."
Mr. Peters added that he had been angered by what he called the news medias "lionization" of Pfc. Bergdahl. "Nothing will make me back down from my conviction that Pfc. Bergdahl does not deserve to be made a hero."
A Fox News spokeswoman, who asked that her name not be used, said the network had not received the letter.
Analysts say the controversy underlines the degree to which the soldiers fate is becoming a media spectacle, which could have profound implications for the way U.S.-led military operations are perceived in Afghanistan and around the world.
"Terrorism has always been theater," said former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss.
Pfc. Bergdahl appeared, earlier this week, in a video released by his Taliban captors, saying he was their guest and being well-treated. He said Americans were being misinformed by their leaders about the situation in Afghanistan and urged them to demand the withdrawal of the U.S. military.
Mr. Voss, who now works for Insite, a New York-based security consulting firm, said the audience for the video was "people in the region and beyond trying to decide whose side theyre on" in the fighting between Taliban insurgents and the U.S.-led international coalition.
"Already you are seeing people saying this guy is being better treated than [U.S.-held] detainees at Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghraib ... If the U.S. government remains silent, those observations will stand."
Mr. Voss said the video was "very well orchestrated ... they are feeding him, there is nothing threatening visible."
"They have put a lot of thought into this," he added, saying the Taliban propaganda effort was "increasingly sophisticated, they are learning."
"The Taliban do information operations better than anyone, certainly better than us," said Mr. Burden. Meanwhile, the U.S. "military is focused on one thing and that is getting him back."
Pentagon stays mum on how he left post
By Shaun Waterman THE WASHINGTON TIMES | Friday, July 24, 2009
Link:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/24/queries-rise-on-soldiers-kidnapping/
News Story:
A U.S. soldier kidnapped by the Taliban is at the center of an escalating controversy about how he came to be captured - an event that could be a propaganda bonanza for the insurgents.
The Pentagon declined to comment on allegations that Pfc. Bowe R. Bergdahl left his post unarmed on June 30 before his capture in eastern Afghanistan.
"All I can tell you is, the conditions surrounding his capture are under investigation," spokesman Lt. Col. Mark Wright told The Washington Times. "Its not wise at this point to reach conclusions prior to the investigation being completed."
Military blogger Matthew Burden, who runs the BlackFive Web site, told The Times that the soldier "walked off [his base] with a water bottle and [a military ration pack] on some kind of he-man expedition." He said he received this information from a contact involved in the massive manhunt the military has launched and confirmed it with two other sources.
Fox News military analyst retired Lt. Col. Ralph Peters sparked a firestorm of controversy last weekend when he called Pfc. Bergdahl a "deserter," adding that if that were the case, "the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills" by killing him.
Outraged lawmakers of both parties wrote to Fox News demanding an apology for the comments. The 23 House members, all U.S. military veterans, wrote that they watched the comments "with incredulity and disgust," adding that Mr. Peters view was "was repulsive and deserves to be repudiated by your news organization."
The Republican signatories include Reps. Darrell Issa and Duncan Hunter, both from California.
Mr. Peters told The Times Thursday that he regretted his remarks.
"I unquestionably over-spoke in the heat of the moment," he said. "I hope Pfc. Bergdahl comes home safely for the sake of his family, and so he can face military judicial proceedings."
Mr. Peters added that he had been angered by what he called the news medias "lionization" of Pfc. Bergdahl. "Nothing will make me back down from my conviction that Pfc. Bergdahl does not deserve to be made a hero."
A Fox News spokeswoman, who asked that her name not be used, said the network had not received the letter.
Analysts say the controversy underlines the degree to which the soldiers fate is becoming a media spectacle, which could have profound implications for the way U.S.-led military operations are perceived in Afghanistan and around the world.
"Terrorism has always been theater," said former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss.
Pfc. Bergdahl appeared, earlier this week, in a video released by his Taliban captors, saying he was their guest and being well-treated. He said Americans were being misinformed by their leaders about the situation in Afghanistan and urged them to demand the withdrawal of the U.S. military.
Mr. Voss, who now works for Insite, a New York-based security consulting firm, said the audience for the video was "people in the region and beyond trying to decide whose side theyre on" in the fighting between Taliban insurgents and the U.S.-led international coalition.
"Already you are seeing people saying this guy is being better treated than [U.S.-held] detainees at Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghraib ... If the U.S. government remains silent, those observations will stand."
Mr. Voss said the video was "very well orchestrated ... they are feeding him, there is nothing threatening visible."
"They have put a lot of thought into this," he added, saying the Taliban propaganda effort was "increasingly sophisticated, they are learning."
"The Taliban do information operations better than anyone, certainly better than us," said Mr. Burden. Meanwhile, the U.S. "military is focused on one thing and that is getting him back."
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egy sárvédő said:
Considering that TF 3-08 had an IO and then got rid of him because "we don't need that crap" (sic) I think my kids kindergarten teacher could do a better job than we were doing. I didn't see the Americans burning up the coordination either (although I can only speak for RC(S) ) Why coordinate counter insurgency efforts when there are more important things, like careers and Exel spread sheets to worry about?
For as often as the phrase "teamwork" gets tossed around, there are a godawful lot of individuals and individual organizations in our little sandbox war.
That being said, that was a pretty slick video. I would hazard a guess that Hezbollah has been coaching them?
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