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C3 Howitzer Replacement

McG

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Honestly I have to wonder the logic of getting two different heavy trucks.
Neither is supposed to be the heavy truck. I know they are huge, but they are only the medium truck. They can’t handle a real heavy truck’s load. The new heavy trucks are still scheduled to be bought in the near(ish) future.
 

Dana381

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I would assume it would be the better part of the day to swap the cabs over. Not bad if needed though. Its funny how some of these vehciles are built now. Like Ford with removing the cab to do engine work, All plug and play connections and easy access cab bolts.
I think its 5 hours to remove and re-install a Ford super duty cab and it saves about 15 hours vs not removing the cab when doing head gaskets on a 6.0L/6.4L diesel. (I have never done this myself but friends have).

I used to work at a Mack dealer and the MRU/LEU chassis is also a tilt cab. Because of the need to tilt they are built with all wiring and plumbing to the cab going to the front by the hinges. It strikes me that would make cab swaps much faster than conventional trucks. The Kerax is a different truck than the MRU but similar concept.
 

dapaterson

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You could have helped reduce the ignorance

i read it
Clearly you did not read it. The article states explicitly that the project was structured in five phases, and outlines what each of them was, including acquisitions of a MilCOTS fleet, followed by acquisition of a SMP fleet..
 

suffolkowner

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Clearly you did not read it. The article states explicitly that the project was structured in five phases, and outlines what each of them was, including acquisitions of a MilCOTS fleet, followed by acquisition of a SMP fleet..
yeah i read that part
 

Dana381

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I still like to think of it as the DT-444…
Same engine the only difference is the 7.3L uses a Ford ECM and the T-444E uses an international ECM, everything else is the same. The reason they went to the 6.0L lemon was California said the 7.3L was too loud. The Injectors and HEUI system parts are also common to the DT-466E/530E engines which were also really good engines.
 

Good2Golf

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466 is a legend in vocational trucks!
 

Dana381

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466 is a legend in vocational trucks!
Yep, I spent 10 years maintaining a fleet of 20 of them model years 1982-2002. Great engine, in my time there we only lost one that wasn't because of rotten coolant. After I was finally able to convince the boss to let me change the coolant once in a while I stopped doing overhauls completely. The best part for us was that they did not have enough power to break driveshafts, diffs and transmissions. (farm workers aren't the most gentle on equipment) Farms in the area that ran ex highway trucks were constantly breaking driveshafts in mud holes.
 

childs56

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Neither is supposed to be the heavy truck. I know they are huge, but they are only the medium truck. They can’t handle a real heavy truck’s load. The new heavy trucks are still scheduled to be bought in the near(ish) future.
What are you defining as a real heavy trucks load. We ran MLVW and HLVWs for my time in the Military and neither of those were considered heavy truck. They were Medium Logistics vehicle which is the bulk of our fleet. There were some highway tractors/ off-road capable trucks used for specialty hauling. But the majority of our work was done by those two trucks. I can guess the majority of our work now will be done by the Mack and the Navstar trucks. Highway trucks/ tank haulers being specialized enough that they will be low number procurement. Honestly if the government ever got in the real need for truck heavy haul trucks they can buy and or rent them from the Oilfield out west. Lots of heavy transports with all kinds of configurations that would haul just about anything around.
 

KevinB

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What are you defining as a real heavy trucks load. We ran MLVW and HLVWs for my time in the Military and neither of those were considered heavy truck.
The HL was pressed into service doing ML roles as the ML’s where clapped out and not replaced properly (shocker).


They were Medium Logistics vehicle which is the bulk of our fleet.
No the HL was a Heavy Logistics vehicle. It just was used too often in the medium role as the ML’s where toast. Albeit the HL had replaced the old 5 ton.

There were some highway tractors/ off-road capable trucks used for specialty hauling. But the majority of our work was done by those two trucks. I can guess the majority of our work now will be done by the Mack and the Navstar trucks. Highway trucks/ tank haulers being specialized enough that they will be low number procurement. Honestly if the government ever got in the real need for truck heavy haul trucks they can buy and or rent them from the Oilfield out west. Lots of heavy transports with all kinds of configurations that would haul just about anything around.
In true CAF fashion the new trucks will get destroyed trying to fill in for HL roles, and the cycle will continue.

Medium Logistics roles are generally 2.5-5 ton, and Heavy being 8-12.

Keep in mind those tonnages are generally for OFF Road usage. The Hummer had a 2.5ton capacity, but only on road, the M35 had that off-road.
 

childs56

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The HL was pressed into service doing ML roles as the ML’s where clapped out and not replaced properly (shocker).

No the HL was a Heavy Logistics vehicle. It just was used too often in the medium role as the ML’s where toast. Albeit the HL had replaced the old 5 ton.
In true CAF fashion the new trucks will get destroyed trying to fill in for HL roles, and the cycle will continue.

Medium Logistics roles are generally 2.5-5 ton, and Heavy being 8-12.

Keep in mind those tonnages are generally for OFF Road usage. The Hummer had a 2.5ton capacity, but only on road, the M35 had that off-road.
My response was in relation to McG's words. Thanks for the information.

The Mack Truck program is called "Medium Support Vehicle System Project" as per the Canadian Governments specs. 7-10,000kg rating off road.

The Heavy Support vehicle is from 10,000+ kg ratings usually upwards of 16/17000kgs for the military.
With no firm definition of this because it depends on the configuration of the vehicle. Heavy Haul, Heavy transport, heavy lift etc.
Don't worry I have driven trucks up to and just over 200,000lbs /100tons (heaviest was 209,000lbs). I have driven these across farm fields and down some pretty tricky mud dirt roads. Chained up and given it across the fields and roads.

By the way it is pretty awesome that a Company DE Havilland Canada can build a limited market, limited number product for an affordable cost. When there is a will there is a way.
 

KevinB

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My response was in relation to McG's words. Thanks for the information.

The Mack Truck program is called "Medium Support Vehicle System Project" as per the Canadian Governments specs. 7-10,000kg rating off road.

The Heavy Support vehicle is from 10,000+ kg ratings usually upwards of 16/17000kgs for the military.
With no firm definition of this because it depends on the configuration of the vehicle. Heavy Haul, Heavy transport, heavy lift etc.
Don't worry I have driven trucks up to and just over 200,000lbs /100tons (heaviest was 209,000lbs). I have driven these across farm fields and down some pretty tricky mud dirt roads. Chained up and given it across the fields and roads.
Agreed -- I think the definitions of Heavy versus Medium keep changing over the years due to the ability of manufacturers to make more capable systems...


By the way it is pretty awesome that a Company DE Havilland Canada can build a limited market, limited number product for an affordable cost. When there is a will there is a way.
Key being will, and a supportive market.
Betting of the CAF to be a market is a risky proposition simply due to the GoC wishy-washiness...
 

Spencer100

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My response was in relation to McG's words. Thanks for the information.

The Mack Truck program is called "Medium Support Vehicle System Project" as per the Canadian Governments specs. 7-10,000kg rating off road.

The Heavy Support vehicle is from 10,000+ kg ratings usually upwards of 16/17000kgs for the military.
With no firm definition of this because it depends on the configuration of the vehicle. Heavy Haul, Heavy transport, heavy lift etc.
Don't worry I have driven trucks up to and just over 200,000lbs /100tons (heaviest was 209,000lbs). I have driven these across farm fields and down some pretty tricky mud dirt roads. Chained up and given it across the fields and roads.

By the way it is pretty awesome that a Company DE Havilland Canada can build a limited market, limited number product for an affordable cost. When there is a will there is a way.

The key piece you are missing from the DeHaviland story is buying the production Tyoe Certificates at pennies on the dollar. Viking purchased the certs from an almost bankrupt Bombardier. So no super expensive R&D

Plus if you talking truck production their is one left in Canada that is Paccar in Montreal burbs. But they are not even on the bid list for the heavy trucks. The list is Oshosh, Traton (Navistar, MAN etc) Volvo (Arquus, Mack, Volvo, Provost) Daimler/GDLS team.
 

childs56

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The key piece you are missing from the DeHaviland story is buying the production Tyoe Certificates at pennies on the dollar. Viking purchased the certs from an almost bankrupt Bombardier. So no super expensive R&D
Pennies on the dollar, that's funny. They bought the Certificates from Bombardier who couldn't make it work. Viking Air has been involved in the Canadian rebirth of DE Havilland since I was kid, Finally they have the rights to it all. Which is awesome.
Plus if you talking truck production their is one left in Canada that is Paccar in Montreal burbs. But they are not even on the bid list for the heavy trucks. The list is Oshosh, Traton (Navistar, MAN etc) Volvo (Arquus, Mack, Volvo, Provost) Daimler/GDLS team.
They should be on the bid list, politics at its best. Kenworth has their C500 series which would put Mack to shame. Again politics at it best.
 

SeaKingTacco

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The key piece you are missing from the DeHaviland story is buying the production Tyoe Certificates at pennies on the dollar. Viking purchased the certs from an almost bankrupt Bombardier. So no super expensive R&D

Plus if you talking truck production their is one left in Canada that is Paccar in Montreal burbs. But they are not even on the bid list for the heavy trucks. The list is Oshosh, Traton (Navistar, MAN etc) Volvo (Arquus, Mack, Volvo, Provost) Daimler/GDLS team.
Umm…Foremost?

 

Spencer100

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Pennies on the dollar, that's funny. They bought the Certificates from Bombardier who couldn't make it work. Viking Air has been involved in the Canadian rebirth of DE Havilland since I was kid, Finally they have the rights to it all. Which is awesome.

They should be on the bid list, politics at its best. Kenworth has their C500 series which would put Mack to shame. Again politics at it best.
They didn't even show up. Paccar doesn't have Milspec model. It costs tons of money to have a military complaint model.

Back to Viking it was reported they got the business very very cheap. Basically please finish the order book on the Dash8 (Q400) and some few some money. They are basically going to run the spares businesses. They also got the Type Cert for Waterbombers 215,215T, 415 and looking to build a new 515. They also have the Shorts 330 and Sherpa too.
 
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