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How about this?
6 person det
1 gun with 2 gunners
2 ammo trucks with 2 gunners each
Ammo trucks equipped with autopilots to reduce the work load on the gunners driving -
Gunners of the det rotate taskings.
C3 Howitzer Replacement
- Thread starter MattGotts
- Start date
How about this?
6 person det
1 gun with 2 gunners
2 ammo trucks with 2 gunners each
Ammo trucks equipped with autopilots to reduce the work load on the gunners driving -
Gunners of the det rotate taskings.
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I have not looked too closely, but that is very likely how the Swedes run an Archer Gun Det... Other than the autopilot truck part.
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I think the gun's crew numbers are still messed up....don't you still need the 2x soldiers standing 100 feet behind the guns with the horse teams?
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- Reaction score
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9lb’er drill enters…You actually, kneel on one knee, at attention. Duh.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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While we are waiting for the SPG's, get a bunch of 120mm mortars in the back of LAV's as an interim measure.
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The nice aspect of the 777, M109A7 and HIMARS is the US Army has them. This production lines and more importantly spares are next door.
When (or IF) the US Army adopts a wheeled SPA for the Stryker formations then that option slides in as well.
The CA with a fairly insignificant fleet size shouldn’t be looking at bespoke Items, but look south for equipment in most cases to simplify supply.
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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I don't pay undue attention to the gun det numbers. I work in round numbers and current PYs. PYs matter most because regardless of what the true need is, PYs are sacred and unless you find them within your own establishment you won't get them. The fear is if you come to the table with a gun that "only needs" two operators, before you know it the infantry will want to take 200 of the arty's overall PYs as being surplus.
In the real world, however, one has to look at a lot of factors in determining how many people a battery needs: gun det minimums, ammo handlers, command posts, 24/7 operations, crew rest, maintainers, drivers, security, ability to absorb LOBs and casualties, type and scale of operations (position movements, dispersion, contested or secure AMAs, digging in,) etc etc etc. All of those can vary the scale of manning required and, since you never know how when or how you go to war, you always need to prepare for the worst.
This is why I'm a strong advocate of involving reservists. A large amount of the manning required in war is simply not needed in peacetime and can be kept on a parttime basis because the skill levels needed are not complex. The true purpose of peacetime training is to keep all the complex skill levels alive and current and, as a side benefit, have a right-sized force available for rapid reaction. BUT there needs to be a clear plan to acquire the additional people and equipment relatively rapidly when the time comes.
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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I'd have been against that in the past but considering the state of the C3s, some interim plan is getting necessary.
My fear is that some bright spark in Ottawa will consider the "interim solution" as the new status quo and figure out that we can save the billion bucks for SPGs and instead use it to fund four more GOFOS and their staff in Ottawa for a few years.
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If it comes out of the Artillery then - yes, but it should be an Infantry thing, which shouldn't affect the balance of the force.I'd have been against that in the past but considering the state of the C3s, some interim plan is getting necessary.
My fear is that some bright spark in Ottawa will consider the "interim solution" as the new status quo and figure out that we can save the billion bucks for SPGs and instead use it to fund four more GOFOS and their staff in Ottawa for a few years.
*at least in a task focused Military.
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I'd have been against that in the past but considering the state of the C3s, some interim plan is getting necessary.
My fear is that some bright spark in Ottawa will consider the "interim solution" as the new status quo and figure out that we can save the billion bucks for SPGs and instead use it to fund four more GOFOS and their staff in Ottawa for a few years.
My fear is that we will continue to do nothing while we wait for the right thing.
FJAG
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I took the suggestion as getting 120s as an interim for the guns but leave the 81s with the infantry. In my mind, once the final SPG solution is made the 120s could go to the infantry.
I know we're just fooling around with this in these posts, but the C3 crisis is becoming palpable to the point where shooting will soon become undoable. If guns don't go "boom" troops will vote with their feet.
I suspect that ResF issues are taking even more of a back seat as we deal with "reconstitution" but these issues run in parallel. Young soldiers aren't stupid. They can see what is and isn't important to the centre and you can only revel in being an underdog for so long before you say "F--- it".
My fear is that we aren't even looking for the right thing.
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My concern would be if they came as a C3 stopgap, that the CA would call it a day...
It would become the Royal Canadian Mortars, and the Royal Canadian Horse Mortars.
One would think that it should be possible to work exercises either with the RCHA units, or try to find something down here with the ARNG Arty units. It isn't a solution, but more of a bandaid.
My fear is more they wouldn't know the right thing -- the LG1 enters the chat...I suspect that ResF issues are taking even more of a back seat as we deal with "reconstitution" but these issues run in parallel. Young soldiers aren't stupid. They can see what is and isn't important to the centre and you can only revel in being an underdog for so long before you say "F--- it".
My fear is that we aren't even looking for the right thing.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Thankfully my unit has 2 complete 25pdrs and limbers, so they can at least continue to train after the 105's are gone. We also have a 18pdr for area defense using shrapnel and it seems they just acquired a 155mm Howitzer (aka The Pig), so we can have a Heavy Troop as well.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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We could opt for these to flesh out our M777 numbers
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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Ditto.
Using their ranges is one thing. Borrowing their kit is another that neither bureaucracy would be thrilled about.
There aren't that many and they come with their own problems.
On the other hand, S Korea still has a thousand or so M101s. Or maybe the US could sell us a few clapped out M119s.
Don't laugh. They were the runner up if we couldn't have gotten M777s in 2006.We could opt for these to flesh out our M777 numbers
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Plan BThankfully my unit has 2 complete 25pdrs and limbers, so they can at least continue to train after the 105's are gone. We also have a 18pdr for area defense using shrapnel and it seems they just acquired a 155mm Howitzer (aka The Pig), so we can have a Heavy Troop as well.
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For the unit that goes no where without its vehicles (LAVs, CV90s or Tanks) then
4 of these for every Leo Squadron ( and reduce the Leo Squadron down to 14 Leos)
8 of these for every LAV Battalion
81 mm mortars for those folks who have to walk to work, preferably at least 2 for each company but can be held at battalion for dispersal as required.
4 of these for every Leo Squadron ( and reduce the Leo Squadron down to 14 Leos)
8 of these for every LAV Battalion
81 mm mortars for those folks who have to walk to work, preferably at least 2 for each company but can be held at battalion for dispersal as required.
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BAE looking at re-opening the M777 lines. Apparently a number of countries are expressing interest.
Unfortunately the whole story is behind a paywall.
www.wsj.com
Together with NAMMO's 155mm Ramjet ammunition, tested by the US Army, that would mean all weather precision fire at 150 km ranges from the standard L39 barrel of the M777.
www.army-technology.com
www.nammo.com
Unfortunately the whole story is behind a paywall.
WSJ News Exclusive | BAE, U.S. in Talks to Restart M777 Howitzer Production After Ukraine Success
The potential resurrection of the big gun shows how the war in Ukraine could reshape the global arms industry.
www.wsj.com
Together with NAMMO's 155mm Ramjet ammunition, tested by the US Army, that would mean all weather precision fire at 150 km ranges from the standard L39 barrel of the M777.
Boeing and Nammo conduct long-range Ramjet 155 artillery test
Boeing and Nammo have jointly conducted a test of a ramjet-powered artillery projectile at the Andøya Test Center in Norway.
www.army-technology.com
The range revolution - Nammo
www.nammo.com
Maxman1
Sr. Member
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We could opt for these to flesh out our M777 numbers
Maybe build new ones in Canada to equip reserve units.
