Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

[Altair]

But didn't you vote for these guys?

I certainly did. The more they exist the less chance the party with the less effective climate plan gets into office.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I certainly did. The more they exist the less chance the party with the less effective climate plan gets into office.

Ah my mistake then. I thought I recalled you talking about voting for local candidates you supported and not strategically.

 

[Altair]

Ah my mistake then. I thought I recalled you talking about voting for local candidates you supported and not strategically.

Doesn't make a darn lick of difference when someone in your riding is willing by 15k votes

 

[Brad Sallows]

Coal in Canada is a sideshow.

All figures "roughly", from 2019 sources (ie. before the COVID economic contraction). (Me getting round-ish numbers from various charts and graphs, sometimes just eyeballing them.)

75% of Canada's energy consumption is from hydrocarbons (eg. oil, natural gas, coal). Coal accounts for less than 0.5% of the total. The remaining 25% is hydro (overwhelmingly), nuclear, and other sources. "Other" is 3%, and includes wind and solar (so, both of those, in the big picture, are inconsequential).

For those to whom it might not be clear, the 1/5th of electrical energy generation that depends on hydrocarbons is dwarfed by other uses of hydrocarbons.

People fixated on the fly-shit-in-pepper amounts are not to be taken seriously. To really deal with the consumption of hydrocarbons in Canada means, in crude terms*, moving the dial up from 25% (ie. tripling would get us to 75%). (Imagine the infrastructure to triple the amount of electricity generated in Canada. Imagine the litigation over dams, nuclear plants, wind and solar farms.)

*A lot of assumptions are in play, the biggest one of which is that the amount of energy consumed doesn't change with the technology. For example, an EV might be able to move a given mass M for less energy expenditure than a vehicle powered by an IC engine.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Doesn't make a darn lick of difference when someone in your riding is willing by 15k votes

Or the voter has no morals??

 

[Altair]

Or the voter has no morals??

It matters not.

 

[RangerRay]

I see it more like closing a few lanes on the Highway because in three years you are going to repave it.

Hey, that’s what they do in Manitoba!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Coal in Canada is a sideshow.

All figures "roughly", from 2019 sources (ie. before the COVID economic contraction). (Me getting round-ish numbers from various charts and graphs, sometimes just eyeballing them.)

75% of Canada's energy consumption is from hydrocarbons (eg. oil, natural gas, coal). Coal accounts for less than 0.5% of the total. The remaining 25% is hydro (overwhelmingly), nuclear, and other sources. "Other" is 3%, and includes wind and solar (so, both of those, in the big picture, are inconsequential).

For those to whom it might not be clear, the 1/5th of electrical energy generation that depends on hydrocarbons is dwarfed by other uses of hydrocarbons.

People fixated on the fly-shit-in-pepper amounts are not to be taken seriously. To really deal with the consumption of hydrocarbons in Canada means, in crude terms*, moving the dial up from 25% (ie. tripling would get us to 75%). (Imagine the infrastructure to triple the amount of electricity generated in Canada. Imagine the litigation over dams, nuclear plants, wind and solar farms.)

*A lot of assumptions are in play, the biggest one of which is that the amount of energy consumed doesn't change with the technology. For example, an EV might be able to move a given mass M for less energy expenditure than a vehicle powered by an IC engine.

The majority of BC coal is to good to be used as thermal coal and the majority goes to coking. About 3-5% of the deposits up near Tumbler ridge are high enough quality to be used for filters.

 

[Good2Golf]

The majority of BC coal is to good to be used as thermal coal and the majority goes to coking. About 3-5% of the deposits up near Tumbler ridge are high enough quality to be used for filters.

…and shows that Canada really isn’t full-on serious in reducing coal too much. Good quality or not, the metallurgical coal still has significant emissions, but: a) brings in money to federal coffers through taxes, and b) the government counts on mouth-frothing greenies to not note the details that 2030 will only cut thermal coal (and ~70% of AB’s electrical generation) and not touch the metallurgical coal. (I think the GoC is actually right in the assessment of b) to be honest…)

G2G

 

[Altair]

…and shows that Canada really isn’t full-on serious in reducing coal too much. Good quality or not, the metallurgical coal still has significant emissions, but: a) brings in money to federal coffers through taxes, and b) the government counts on mouth-frothing greenies to not note the details that 2030 will only cut thermal coal (and ~70% of AB’s electrical generation) and not touch the metallurgical coal. (I think the GoC is actually right in the assessment of b) to be honest…)

G2G

There are technologies coming online to replace coke in the steel making process.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There are technologies already on line to do all sorts of things, up to and including using chemistry to remove harmful compounds. What matters is economic viability.

 

[Altair]

There are technologies already on line to do all sorts of things, up to and including using chemistry to remove harmful compounds. What matters is economic viability.

30 percent of steel produced today is produced using electric arc furnaces.

As coal gets more expensive via carbon tax electric arc furnaces become more viable.

See, carbon tax works.

 

[ModlrMike]

30 percent of steel produced today is produced using electric arc furnaces.

As coal gets more expensive via carbon tax electric arc furnaces become more viable.

See, carbon tax works.

False equivalence fallacy. Taxing older technologies out of existence, doesn't make their replacement necessarily cheaper.

 

[YZT580]

30 percent of steel produced today is produced using electric arc furnaces.

As coal gets more expensive via carbon tax electric arc furnaces become more viable.

See, carbon tax works.

True, except for the minor problem of reliable electric supply. It won't come from wind or solar.

 

[KevinB]

30 percent of steel produced today is produced using electric arc furnaces.

As coal gets more expensive via carbon tax electric arc furnaces become more viable.

See, carbon tax works.

The electricity for those forges comes from where?

 

[Good2Golf]

The electricity for those forges comes from where?

 

[Altair]

True, except for the minor problem of reliable electric supply. It won't come from wind or solar.

View attachment 67094

The electricity for those forges comes from where?

I cannot find a gif for natural gas.

 

[Altair]

False equivalence fallacy. Taxing older technologies out of existence, doesn't make their replacement necessarily cheaper.

Cheaper, no. Viable, yes.

 

[Altair]

Nearly two-thirds of Canadians support oil and gas emissions cap, even if it puts jobs at risk: poll

Sixty-three per cent of respondents to a Nanos Research poll said they agree or somewhat agree that Canada should immediately limit emissions from the oil and gas sector and curtail them over time

www.theglobeandmail.com

Almost two-thirds of Canadians support immediately capping greenhouse gas emissions from the oil sands – even if it puts jobs at risk, according to a new poll.

Sixty-three per cent of respondents to a Nanos Research poll said they agree or somewhat agree that Canada should immediately limit emissions from the oil and gas sector and curtail them over time. Thirty-four per cent said they either disagree or somewhat disagree, and 3 per cent said they are unsure.

I'll just prepare for everyone hear to slam a second pollster, Nanos, rather than acknowledge the poll having similar results to the Leger online poll.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'll just prepare for everyone hear to slam a second pollster, Nanos, rather than acknowledge the poll having similar results to the Leger online poll.

Almost two-thirds of Canadians support immediately capping greenhouse gas emissions from the oil sands – even if it puts jobs at risk, according to a new poll.

The poll, conducted for The Globe and Mail, also shows the country is “fundamentally divided” between the Prairie provinces and the rest of Canada,

So people whose jobs aren't at risk support capping greenhouse gas emissions from the oil sands even though it might cost other people their jobs? Okay.