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Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

KevinB

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Yes. Yes. The question is still is BAE paying back the British taxpayer for the IP. The British gov paid BAE for the IP. BAE sold that IP plus some of their own to Irving/Lockheed and Canada is paying for it. That is my question. They may not be paying back the British treasury for all the reason you list. But I thought maybe that is reason for some of cost down for the batch two ships.

In the USA FMS sales put some of the money goes to the US government to pay back some of the R&D money the US spent developing the weapon system etc. This is on top of the cost of system from the manufacturer. Example is M1777 purchased by Canada. Another famous example was the waving by the US government of R&D costs of the CF18 when Canada purchased the aircraft. We got a great deal!
That’s not exactly true as to how we do FMS.
I’m on my phone and don’t want to write an essay - but FMS pricing isn’t variable on R&D returns.
 

Navy_Pete

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Yes. Yes. The question is still is BAE paying back the British taxpayer for the IP. The British gov paid BAE for the IP. BAE sold that IP plus some of their own to Irving/Lockheed and Canada is paying for it. That is my question. They may not be paying back the British treasury for all the reason you list. But I thought maybe that is reason for some of cost down for the batch two ships.

In the USA FMS sales put some of the money goes to the US government to pay back some of the R&D money the US spent developing the weapon system etc. This is on top of the cost of system from the manufacturer. Example is M1777 purchased by Canada. Another famous example was the waving by the US government of R&D costs of the CF18 when Canada purchased the aircraft. We got a great deal!
I have no idea; but presumably BAE is paying taxes, so whatever Canada is paying BAE for IP the UK government will get a slice anyway.

The potential costs for rebuilding an engineering design team can be in the billions though (due to delays) so I don't know that the UK cares. Having an experienced, in country design team and capable ship yards means their NSS is a lot more under their control, so the only thing stopping them from beingentirely self sufficient is the supply chain for things like steel, electronics etc.
 

GR66

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Maybe not strictly CSC related, but with the size of our maritime domain and only having 15 CSCs planned (and only 18 x CP-140's) the the UK's Project CHARYBDIS which is looking to explore unmanned ASW technologies to supplement existing manned platforms seems like the type of program that Canada should partner with.

We have some pretty solid industry players in Canada that could do well in this field and if we were to go with the P-8 as an Aurora replacement then the RN/RCN/RAN would have common platforms from which some of these unmanned capabilities could be launched.
 

Underway

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Maybe not strictly CSC related, but with the size of our maritime domain and only having 15 CSCs planned (and only 18 x CP-140's) the the UK's Project CHARYBDIS which is looking to explore unmanned ASW technologies to supplement existing manned platforms seems like the type of program that Canada should partner with.

We have some pretty solid industry players in Canada that could do well in this field and if we were to go with the P-8 as an Aurora replacement then the RN/RCN/RAN would have common platforms from which some of these unmanned capabilities could be launched.
No disagreement here. Its going to be the way of the future, where uncrewed vessels will be operating as sensor platforms for the other ships, expanding the RMP. Surface and air platforms are just the beginning, ASW is going to be the tougher one but likely a good wave of the future.
 

Colin Parkinson

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No disagreement here. Its going to be the way of the future, where uncrewed vessels will be operating as sensor platforms for the other ships, expanding the RMP. Surface and air platforms are just the beginning, ASW is going to be the tougher one but likely a good wave of the future.
I can see autonomous underwater vehicles patrolling stretches of ocean passively listening for certain types of propeller noises. The mothership could be a modified oil rig supply vessel with a A frame on the back for retrieval/deployment and covered hanger for refit and recharging of the UAV's.
 

lenaitch

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Tell them that the CAF will move the ship building to Montreal, and build the testing facility up near Souris PEI, or Gaspe, QC... Then watch as they scream for the site and ship building to be done around Halifax.
Some wouldn't care because 'warship bad'. The fun question is always 'then where? You suggest.'
 

Underway

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Answers, no it will not be safe withing 300+m of the radar when its radiating, and no you won't be able to use the coastal area because of security and fences etc...

It's DND property that they are letting you use right now, when the building goes up security won't let you in. Deal with it.
 

Good2Golf

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Answers, no it will not be safe withing 300+m of the radar when its radiating, and no you won't be able to use the coastal area because of security and fences etc...

It's DND property that they are letting you use right now, when the building goes up security won't let you in. Deal with it.
Yeah but…we know it won’t end that way.

I figure, Mr. Darren Fisher, the local MP for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour, gets told he either helps them see the light, or DND pivots as much money as it can out of an unfriendly location.
 

Stoker

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I live in the area which includes many military. There is a small group of residents and non-residents who are against this project and are trying their best to have it killed. They think DND tried to have the project approved under the radar and actually think weapons are being tested there. These people are against all sorts of development. They seem to think that they have a right to the DND land. I looked at the clip and it's exaggerated the level of support they have in the community. Many in the community are for the project just not very vocal.
Check out their facebook page, its public and gives you a idea of their thinking.

 
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Stoker

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It appears now that the group has the Lobster fishermen convinced which is a huge group in Eastern Passage that DND will block off the lobster grounds off Hartlen point and that the emissions will harm them.
 

MTShaw

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It appears now that the group has the Lobster fishermen convinced which is a huge group in Eastern Passage that DND will block off the lobster grounds off Hartlen point and that the emissions will harm them.
Tell them to stop using their microwaves and cordless home phones. Stomp on the idiots with “no it wont hurt you hippy and this is a National Defence matter.“
 

lenaitch

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It appears now that the group has the Lobster fishermen convinced which is a huge group in Eastern Passage that DND will block off the lobster grounds off Hartlen point and that the emissions will harm them.
Aren't NOTMARs (Notices to Mariners) a thing anymore? I'm guessing significant radiation emissions will only be an occasional event. According to DFO, the Lobster season for that area is mid-April to mid-June. Surely something could be worked out. The government/DND needs to get ahead of this instead of allowing opponents to gain momentum.
 

Underway

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Aren't NOTMARs (Notices to Mariners) a thing anymore? I'm guessing significant radiation emissions will only be an occasional event. According to DFO, the Lobster season for that area is mid-April to mid-June. Surely something could be worked out. The government/DND needs to get ahead of this instead of allowing opponents to gain momentum.
If you aren't using the Fire Control then its RADHAZ safe. And you can put in a blanking sector. There is also elevation so if you radiate into the air then its fine.

I wouldn't be worried about NOTMAR's at all. I would be shocked if a lobster boat can get that close to the shore facility.
 
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