- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Hello, Milnet community! I am a Saskatchewan High School student and RCAC WOII, looking to join the Canadian Forces as an officer in the near future. I am currently in an Air Cadet squadron, and I am loving it. Ever since I started with the program back when I was a wee lil' 12 year old, I wondered what it would be like to take it all to the next level and apply for the forces. I'm 16 years of age and turning 17, so the time is coming around. I know this is what I want to do with my life, this or the RCMP. Lately, I have been leaning over to the Canadian Forces, as the lifestyle in each branch really intrigues me. I have simply come across the issue... what branch should I join?
I know the answer will likely be something along the lines of "That is for you to decide, young laddy. Only you know what you want!", so I will give a little bit more information on my predicament.
As an Air Cadet, I was nearly certain I wanted to become an Air Force pilot, and go for the "Power Pilot" course involved within our program. The issue that had only recently came up is, I am color deficient. Red/green deficiency, to be exact. It is a very important to have these two colors separate in your mind, because the colors red, green, and white commonly come up in flight. I can distinguish the two colors quite fine, but I failed the color blindness test none the less. Thinking of the Farnsworth Lantern Test, or better know by it's abbreviation, the FALANT, I could bypass this issue. The issue with that is, I have this gut-wrenching feeling of uncertainty behind it. I have to maintain an above-average confidence level, and knowing I could go through the whole process just to be cut short at a FALANT... it boggles my mind. My local optometrist has no FALANT Flashlight or anything similar, so I can't simply go check like the big city folk might. Now, it looks bad so far... but, wait till you hear the cherry on top; I have less than 20/40 vision. I would have to get a certain type of laser eye surgery, and that costs a good amount. Luckily, I have a part time job that I am using to save for such events. My reasoning behind wanting to become a pilot is because I am a very technically inclined person, and very diligent as well. I know planning a flight for 3-4 hours would take diligence! ^.^
(Oh, and Senator Pamela Wallin and I had a discussion on what branch I should join, both via e-mail and in person. She got me really pumped about the Air Force, being an honorary Major and all, so that really factors into my decision too.)
Now, next up is the Navy. If I take this road, I would want to become a Maritime and Subsurface Officer, or, MARS Officer if you prefer. I feel I would be capable for this because of my diligence and above-average leadership skills I have already developed through the Cadet program. These would be helpful considering I would be an Officer of the Watch. Now, the Navy, I have been looking at it... and, are surface ships of use in conventional warfare even? I don't know as much as you guys might, but... a saturation attack would decimate any countermeasures we might have, so all it takes is a good amount of cheap missiles launched from the shore, no? Not that Canada will be fighting a conventional war in my lifetime, but... if it ever did happen, I wouldn't wanna be chillin' at a dock with my mates while others are out there being all sacrificial and everything. I would feel like I'm doing less than I'm capable of doing in this hypothetical scenario, and likely just end up re-mustering if at all possible. In which case, my years of training would have been, well, thrown out the window. I wouldn't want to feel like a burden either, and by re-mustering, I would also feel like I'm burdening the military who used taxpayer dollars to train me from scratch... and then they now would have to do it all over again.
Finally, Army. For Army, I was leaning towards Infantry Officer. Like I said, the leadership skills and diligence would help, and if I was assigned to Mech Inf by chance, the technical inclination would come in too. I also wish to feel like I'm making the physical, frontal difference (Reason I say it this way, is because every member of the CF is contributing to the greater good. If you guys didn't have all the people you did doing all these different unique jobs, it would fall apart.), if you couldn't already tell. Sounds like a foolish and childish fantasy, but really, I feel that the environment provided there is best for me. I also note the usefulness of Infantry and their heightened capability in urban combat (which I think would be huge, considering cities would be the prime tactical positions in a modern hypothetical conventional war) and holding ground, and leading that would be a real honor.
Of course, when I speak out about all these, I'm only noting their practical role, and noticeably, their role in 'CONVENTIONAL' 'WARFARE'. I have no idea what garrison duties/office duties Officers would be obligated to do (not including the various administration roles). In fact, those don't really matter to me in this. They follow you no matter what branch or role you take, as they are necessary. I am only worried about how they would act conventionally. Even if there is never another conventional war in all time. I'm judging my choice based on that.
So, if anyone can list their own personal opinions on what they can, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks guys, have a good one.
- Daniel Choquette
I know the answer will likely be something along the lines of "That is for you to decide, young laddy. Only you know what you want!", so I will give a little bit more information on my predicament.
As an Air Cadet, I was nearly certain I wanted to become an Air Force pilot, and go for the "Power Pilot" course involved within our program. The issue that had only recently came up is, I am color deficient. Red/green deficiency, to be exact. It is a very important to have these two colors separate in your mind, because the colors red, green, and white commonly come up in flight. I can distinguish the two colors quite fine, but I failed the color blindness test none the less. Thinking of the Farnsworth Lantern Test, or better know by it's abbreviation, the FALANT, I could bypass this issue. The issue with that is, I have this gut-wrenching feeling of uncertainty behind it. I have to maintain an above-average confidence level, and knowing I could go through the whole process just to be cut short at a FALANT... it boggles my mind. My local optometrist has no FALANT Flashlight or anything similar, so I can't simply go check like the big city folk might. Now, it looks bad so far... but, wait till you hear the cherry on top; I have less than 20/40 vision. I would have to get a certain type of laser eye surgery, and that costs a good amount. Luckily, I have a part time job that I am using to save for such events. My reasoning behind wanting to become a pilot is because I am a very technically inclined person, and very diligent as well. I know planning a flight for 3-4 hours would take diligence! ^.^
(Oh, and Senator Pamela Wallin and I had a discussion on what branch I should join, both via e-mail and in person. She got me really pumped about the Air Force, being an honorary Major and all, so that really factors into my decision too.)
Now, next up is the Navy. If I take this road, I would want to become a Maritime and Subsurface Officer, or, MARS Officer if you prefer. I feel I would be capable for this because of my diligence and above-average leadership skills I have already developed through the Cadet program. These would be helpful considering I would be an Officer of the Watch. Now, the Navy, I have been looking at it... and, are surface ships of use in conventional warfare even? I don't know as much as you guys might, but... a saturation attack would decimate any countermeasures we might have, so all it takes is a good amount of cheap missiles launched from the shore, no? Not that Canada will be fighting a conventional war in my lifetime, but... if it ever did happen, I wouldn't wanna be chillin' at a dock with my mates while others are out there being all sacrificial and everything. I would feel like I'm doing less than I'm capable of doing in this hypothetical scenario, and likely just end up re-mustering if at all possible. In which case, my years of training would have been, well, thrown out the window. I wouldn't want to feel like a burden either, and by re-mustering, I would also feel like I'm burdening the military who used taxpayer dollars to train me from scratch... and then they now would have to do it all over again.
Finally, Army. For Army, I was leaning towards Infantry Officer. Like I said, the leadership skills and diligence would help, and if I was assigned to Mech Inf by chance, the technical inclination would come in too. I also wish to feel like I'm making the physical, frontal difference (Reason I say it this way, is because every member of the CF is contributing to the greater good. If you guys didn't have all the people you did doing all these different unique jobs, it would fall apart.), if you couldn't already tell. Sounds like a foolish and childish fantasy, but really, I feel that the environment provided there is best for me. I also note the usefulness of Infantry and their heightened capability in urban combat (which I think would be huge, considering cities would be the prime tactical positions in a modern hypothetical conventional war) and holding ground, and leading that would be a real honor.
Of course, when I speak out about all these, I'm only noting their practical role, and noticeably, their role in 'CONVENTIONAL' 'WARFARE'. I have no idea what garrison duties/office duties Officers would be obligated to do (not including the various administration roles). In fact, those don't really matter to me in this. They follow you no matter what branch or role you take, as they are necessary. I am only worried about how they would act conventionally. Even if there is never another conventional war in all time. I'm judging my choice based on that.
So, if anyone can list their own personal opinions on what they can, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks guys, have a good one.
- Daniel Choquette
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
I'll make it simple for you. Your Colour Vision may restrict what occupation(s) you are eligible for. MARS requires CV2 or better. If you're a CV3, you're out for MARS. It's important to know whether that's a starboard (green) running light or a port (red) running light on that vessel that's passing ahead of you in the middle of the night. Read up on the Medical Enrolment Standards threads here on the site.
You don't choose branches. You choose an occupation. If you're going officer via ROTP, you choose an occupation and a degree program. If you try to choose what to do by what branch/element you'll be in, you're headed for a long period of obligatory service in an occupation you may turn out to hate.
You only registered on the site today; there's lots and lots for you to read.
You don't choose branches. You choose an occupation. If you're going officer via ROTP, you choose an occupation and a degree program. If you try to choose what to do by what branch/element you'll be in, you're headed for a long period of obligatory service in an occupation you may turn out to hate.
You only registered on the site today; there's lots and lots for you to read.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Ahh, thank you for the advice. Although, I have read up on various things in the past using this website, which is why I registered and came here for help.
When you fill out an application though, it asks you for your environment of interest. By branch, I do mean environment just so we're clear. I realize I may have mistaken the name for environment, and I apologise. Also, the reasoning behind all of this typing is because I do realize how foolish it is, and I am trying to come to a conclusion on which one I should go for.
When you fill out an application though, it asks you for your environment of interest. By branch, I do mean environment just so we're clear. I realize I may have mistaken the name for environment, and I apologise. Also, the reasoning behind all of this typing is because I do realize how foolish it is, and I am trying to come to a conclusion on which one I should go for.
Honestly, until you get tested to the appropriate medical standards, you won't really know what your medical category will be. And remember that you don't need to be medically perfect for any occupation. Pilots need Vision 2 and Colour Vision 2 (1 being the best possible score), but even if you have Colour Vision 3 there are a wide number of occupations open to you, including Infantry Officer.
The military medical category system might be something that you want to educate yourself on.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/CFP-PFC-154/AN-E-eng.asp
Huh, I just noticed that Artillerymen need decent colour vision (CV 2) but their officers don't (CV 3). I guess the Battery Commander isn't expected to handle the ammo and the fuzes.
And because you mentioned the RCMP as an option -- be aware that they also have colour vision requirements. It looks like the RCMP require the equivalent of CV 2.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/rec/health-sante-eng.htm
The military medical category system might be something that you want to educate yourself on.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/CFP-PFC-154/AN-E-eng.asp
Huh, I just noticed that Artillerymen need decent colour vision (CV 2) but their officers don't (CV 3). I guess the Battery Commander isn't expected to handle the ammo and the fuzes.
And because you mentioned the RCMP as an option -- be aware that they also have colour vision requirements. It looks like the RCMP require the equivalent of CV 2.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/rec/health-sante-eng.htm
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Alright, thanks a lot for the info guys! I appreciate it. I was scared that I would need perfect color vision for something like pilot. I can still easily distinguish the colors, but when it comes to doing those little dotted circular pallets, I can only pass 60-70% of it.
You were all a great help! If you have any more advice, please tell. I was only trying to consider my other options just in case I couldn't apply for a pilot.
Also, I have it bookmarked. I know the CV's, now it's time to figure out all the other letters.
It was a pleasure.
You were all a great help! If you have any more advice, please tell. I was only trying to consider my other options just in case I couldn't apply for a pilot.
Also, I have it bookmarked. I know the CV's, now it's time to figure out all the other letters.
It was a pleasure.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
Question: Why does the CF require a CV2 for Weapons Tech Land, when a CV3 is accepted in Naval Electronics Tech (Tactical), Plumbing and Heating, Cook etc.?
Naval Electronics - I would expect to work with colour coded wiring?
Plumbing and Heating - also includes electronics with color coded wiring.
Cook - How do you differentiate the quality of produce or meat if you are red - green deficient?
I don't understand where the color vision plays more importance in Weapons Tech Land compared to the few trades mentioned. Can somebody explain this to me?
Needless to say, yes I made an application, passed Aptitude, Interview and the rest of the medical test with flying colors, but failed the 2 color tests, thus the CV 3 result.
Went to my opthomologist and re-did the eye exams out of curiosity. My acuity vision is good, don't need glasses. Made only 3 or so mistakes with the color plates, failed the Farnsworth test though too, as I said, I'm red/green deficient, deutan.
My eye doc stated that it is only a very mild case of colour deficiency and that it shouldn't affect me really in any way in daily life, or work.
Didn't even know I was colour blind until I did the colour exams.
Would a statement of my eye doc of his findings, in writing, make any difference to my medical classification for colour vision in my application for Weapons Tech?
Thanks, this is really frustrating!!!!!!
Naval Electronics - I would expect to work with colour coded wiring?
Plumbing and Heating - also includes electronics with color coded wiring.
Cook - How do you differentiate the quality of produce or meat if you are red - green deficient?
I don't understand where the color vision plays more importance in Weapons Tech Land compared to the few trades mentioned. Can somebody explain this to me?
Needless to say, yes I made an application, passed Aptitude, Interview and the rest of the medical test with flying colors, but failed the 2 color tests, thus the CV 3 result.
Went to my opthomologist and re-did the eye exams out of curiosity. My acuity vision is good, don't need glasses. Made only 3 or so mistakes with the color plates, failed the Farnsworth test though too, as I said, I'm red/green deficient, deutan.
My eye doc stated that it is only a very mild case of colour deficiency and that it shouldn't affect me really in any way in daily life, or work.
Didn't even know I was colour blind until I did the colour exams.
Would a statement of my eye doc of his findings, in writing, make any difference to my medical classification for colour vision in my application for Weapons Tech?
Thanks, this is really frustrating!!!!!!
FormerHorseGuard
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 422
- Points
- 760
I am also CV3. I was told it was for my own safety I was disallowed from certain trades, lots of colour codes used for ammo, safety gear, like lights etc . Very hard to beat a CV3. I failed the book test and was given the lantern test 3 times and failed each time.
Rules are made to protect the soldier and to protect the soldiers around that soldier. I would say good luck on getting them to make an exception in your case. Not very likley.
Rules are made to protect the soldier and to protect the soldiers around that soldier. I would say good luck on getting them to make an exception in your case. Not very likley.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
Not really asking for an exception, I just don't understand where the colour part comes in for weapons tech, as other trades use just as much colour coding. Disappointment always brings frustration with it. =)
FormerHorseGuard, when did you find out about your colour vision? What did you do or do you do in the military?
FormerHorseGuard, when did you find out about your colour vision? What did you do or do you do in the military?
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 410
sunnyblueskies said:
It's probably based more on "RISK" than anything else. You can differentiante between the ammo colours, so think "KABOOM"........as opposed to not being able to identify the wiring colours which means "this thing still doesn't work".
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
DAA, yes I understand that. I don't mean to argue about it either, some classifications just don't make sense to me when compared to each other.
Crewmen (Army) also can get away with a CV3, and I would assume they handle ammunition and load weapons as well?
Like I said, I do not want to start an argument or anything, just try to understand the reasoning behind classifications when some are truly obvious and others not necessarily.
Crewmen (Army) also can get away with a CV3, and I would assume they handle ammunition and load weapons as well?
Like I said, I do not want to start an argument or anything, just try to understand the reasoning behind classifications when some are truly obvious and others not necessarily.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I'm CV3 as well and was an infanteer for 15 years and a Construction tech for 11. Oddly enough my first choice was Wpns Tech Land as well but the CV standards were the same in 85 as they are now apparently. CV3 seems to encompass a very large span of colour blindness. I see colours, just not the same as others. I fail the plates. I hate the lamp test and my Farnsworth test comes up 1-15-2-14-3-13 (you get the idea) but I know guys that are CV3 and can only see shades of grey. Funny thing is my re-muster to Construction was medical and I was "retained without restriction" so I was accepted as a Construction Tech even though the standard is CV2 due to paint mixing and matching. Never had an issue that couldn't be worked around or through in my 11 years as a Tech.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
That's exactly my point. CV3 encompasses such a large area of colour deficiency!!!! To be honest, they should use a different testing procedure to see if one can distinguish between the colours or not. The 'farnsworth' (sorting shades in order) can be so tricky, even with normal vision.
One can be colour deficient (red-green in my case) but yet still see red or green, just in a different hue and maybe not as bright and clear as regular CV.
One can be colour deficient (red-green in my case) but yet still see red or green, just in a different hue and maybe not as bright and clear as regular CV.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
If I remember correctly although it was some time ago, one of the large parts of the Wpns Tech L trade was inspection of wpns and components for indications of metal fatigue which can sometimes be detected by very slight variations in the colour of the material at stress points.
FormerHorseGuard
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 422
- Points
- 760
I was in the infantry for a while but ended up a Pay Clerk.
I found out for sure I was colour blind shortly after I joined the Forces. But I had a strong feeling I had problems when I was a teenager and people thought I dressed funny. I wanted to be a pilot, and when I suspected I was colour blind I knew I would never fly as a pilot other than when I flew a kite on a string.
I have problems with so many colours I cannot keep it all straight in my head. I worn army green uniform I was sure it was black, if you remember the linen green shirts way back when I thought it was off white or blue. I see green grass as green, I see darker greens better than other shade s of green. Orange can be orange but the fruit looks yellow to me. Orange can also be a red to me. Browns can be brown or they can be green or what ever colour you tell me it is because I have no clue unless it is brown crayon colour. The Tan brown uniforms of the 90s, no clue I just knew it was the summer uniform and worn it when told to wear it. Female friends always went shopping with me to help pick out the dresser clothes when I was older. They knew what matched and what did not match.
I understand the reasoning behind the Colour rating system, and I understand how it has to be in place. I do not see it as a fair or right or wrong or unfair scale. It all comes down to the point with colour codes, and things that change colour with age and use, it cannot come down to a guess as to what colour it is.
I also wanted to be a policeman, but I cannot describe a person as to hair colour, colour of the clothes eyes, colour of car they might be driving, I would be a lousy witness in court, and I might let the wrong person go or arrest the wrong person all because I could not clearly ID the colour in question.
I think comes down to the fact do you want a guy who cannot see all the colours making judgement calls on something that goes with the safety rating of a piece of equipment that could cause harm or maybe kill someone because you guessed the colour wrong.
I found out for sure I was colour blind shortly after I joined the Forces. But I had a strong feeling I had problems when I was a teenager and people thought I dressed funny. I wanted to be a pilot, and when I suspected I was colour blind I knew I would never fly as a pilot other than when I flew a kite on a string.
I have problems with so many colours I cannot keep it all straight in my head. I worn army green uniform I was sure it was black, if you remember the linen green shirts way back when I thought it was off white or blue. I see green grass as green, I see darker greens better than other shade s of green. Orange can be orange but the fruit looks yellow to me. Orange can also be a red to me. Browns can be brown or they can be green or what ever colour you tell me it is because I have no clue unless it is brown crayon colour. The Tan brown uniforms of the 90s, no clue I just knew it was the summer uniform and worn it when told to wear it. Female friends always went shopping with me to help pick out the dresser clothes when I was older. They knew what matched and what did not match.
I understand the reasoning behind the Colour rating system, and I understand how it has to be in place. I do not see it as a fair or right or wrong or unfair scale. It all comes down to the point with colour codes, and things that change colour with age and use, it cannot come down to a guess as to what colour it is.
I also wanted to be a policeman, but I cannot describe a person as to hair colour, colour of the clothes eyes, colour of car they might be driving, I would be a lousy witness in court, and I might let the wrong person go or arrest the wrong person all because I could not clearly ID the colour in question.
I think comes down to the fact do you want a guy who cannot see all the colours making judgement calls on something that goes with the safety rating of a piece of equipment that could cause harm or maybe kill someone because you guessed the colour wrong.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
I completely agree.
But can we agree as well that there are different levels of colour deficiencies with different levels of colour recognition? Severity I mean.
#FormerHorseGuard, they didn't do CV testing when you joined?
But can we agree as well that there are different levels of colour deficiencies with different levels of colour recognition? Severity I mean.
#FormerHorseGuard, they didn't do CV testing when you joined?
FormerHorseGuard
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 422
- Points
- 760
I did the book test on the day of my medical on Oct 07,1988, then was sworn in Oct 13, 1988, the paper work never caught up with me, I was on GMT with my RES Unit, sent for appointment in Pembroke, Ontario with a Eye doctor, for Feb 89 I did a set of books, then a set of what looked to me as blocks of paint, about the size of a twoonie, had to put them in order from green to blue I think. I could not do it. The doctor would not tell me anything until my "MOMMY" showed up ( his exact word was "MOMMY" because he only wanted to explain it once. I was 18 when I joined the RES. I was the only guy on my course who did not require his parents to sign the paperwork and I turned 19 before the appointment. But he would not tell me the results unless he could explain to my mom. I was so pissed about it. The army sent me not my MOMMY. He rated me as CV2 borderline CV3. They finally got my paperwork done and I got my first pay April 1989,7 months after I joined, I was done my GMT, Basic and well into the BTT INF course. Grad was the first week in June.
I went to LFCA HQ for a callout and I was able to arrange a full Colour Vision test at DCIEM at the Air Crew Selection Center, I just called and they did it. I failed the test 3 times in a row, even with the MCPL or SGT coaching me over my shoulder when I made the mistakes in the colour ID par tof the test with the lantern test. DCIEM Techs rated me as CV3 and I was told by the MCPL or SGT, that he would of rated me worse off but CV3 was the worse they could do. The rating was for my personal safety and the safety of others as my lack of colour vision was off the scale. I never questioned it again, just went with it. The annual paperwork that came around to show your courses and such was never updated to show I was colour blind, always had me as CV0 even thou I wrote it in every year and sent it back to be corrected.
I am orange/green, brown/ black, brown/green , yellow/orange , blue/green problematic and shade problematic with most colours .
I did everything in the army that I wanted to do, the colour problems only held me back from being a pilot. I did mange to fly in the front seats of the Kiowas, got to guide CH47 helicopters to the landing zone, even managed to pay troops in cash even when the 5 dollar and 10 dollar bills look the same to me. I even passed the colour test for grenades .
I went to LFCA HQ for a callout and I was able to arrange a full Colour Vision test at DCIEM at the Air Crew Selection Center, I just called and they did it. I failed the test 3 times in a row, even with the MCPL or SGT coaching me over my shoulder when I made the mistakes in the colour ID par tof the test with the lantern test. DCIEM Techs rated me as CV3 and I was told by the MCPL or SGT, that he would of rated me worse off but CV3 was the worse they could do. The rating was for my personal safety and the safety of others as my lack of colour vision was off the scale. I never questioned it again, just went with it. The annual paperwork that came around to show your courses and such was never updated to show I was colour blind, always had me as CV0 even thou I wrote it in every year and sent it back to be corrected.
I am orange/green, brown/ black, brown/green , yellow/orange , blue/green problematic and shade problematic with most colours .
I did everything in the army that I wanted to do, the colour problems only held me back from being a pilot. I did mange to fly in the front seats of the Kiowas, got to guide CH47 helicopters to the landing zone, even managed to pay troops in cash even when the 5 dollar and 10 dollar bills look the same to me. I even passed the colour test for grenades .
