Ground spike under a tire.... (Unsafe grounding practices)

[chrisf]

Alright, I have no idea where this ridiculous practice came from, but I have been fighting hard against it.

Take this to your units. Take this to CFSCE. Take this the hell out of the heads of sig ops.

PUTTING A GROUND SPIKE UNDER A TIRE DOES NOTHING! NOTHING WHAT SO EVER! IT PROVIDES NO SAFE OR USEFUL GROUND! STOP DOING IT!

I don't know where the practice originated from, but for some reason, but it's quite common. Connecting a grounding cable to the grounding lug on a vehicle, laying the grounding spike behind a tire, and backing the vehicle a few inches backward to put weight on the spike... somone at some point decided that if the ground was too hard to pound in a spike (Read: The det commander is too lazy/incompetant to move their truck give feet backwards to the edge of the pavement).

Now courtesy of the pyramid scheme that is army education, this unsafe electrical practice propogates...

Placing a ground spike on the ground under a tire accomplishes nothing, it provides functionally NO electrical conductivity between the vehicle and the ground, and thus no ground protection.

Why do you want ground protection you ask?

#1. Grounding for your electrical system, provides protection in the event a live wire comes in contact with an enclosure or somthing else electrical. Basically, keeps you from getting shocked.

#2. Lighting protection. Helps to disapate lightning to ground.

#3. Secondary grounding protection when using AC, should the bonding wire to the generator or utility supply fail.

#4. It forms half your freakin' antenna! Using half wave antenntas, no ground, and half your antenna is missing!

So please, stop this practice and start fighting against it, it's going to get people hurt.

 

[PuckChaser]

Proper grounding saved a few of my operators and a CP vehicle from catastrophic damage when it was hit by lightning.

Maybe one of the techs that are floating around here can answer this question: Which grounding lug is used on the LSVW? The one on the VIP or the one on the power panel? I've heard conflicting reports that one of them is disconnected.

 

[SevenSixTwo]

Alright, I have no idea where this ridiculous practice came from, but I have been fighting hard against it.

Take this to your units. Take this to CFSCE. Take this the hell out of the heads of sig ops.

PUTTING A GROUND SPIKE UNDER A TIRE DOES NOTHING! NOTHING WHAT SO EVER! IT PROVIDES NO SAFE OR USEFUL GROUND! STOP DOING IT!

I don't know where the practice originated from, but for some reason, but it's quite common. Connecting a grounding cable to the grounding lug on a vehicle, laying the grounding spike behind a tire, and backing the vehicle a few inches backward to put weight on the spike... somone at some point decided that if the ground was too hard to pound in a spike (Read: The det commander is too lazy/incompetant to move their truck give feet backwards to the edge of the pavement).

Now courtesy of the pyramid scheme that is army education, this unsafe electrical practice propogates...

Placing a ground spike on the ground under a tire accomplishes nothing, it provides functionally NO electrical conductivity between the vehicle and the ground, and thus no ground protection.

Why do you want ground protection you ask?

#1. Grounding for your electrical system, provides protection in the event a live wire comes in contact with an enclosure or somthing else electrical. Basically, keeps you from getting shocked.

#2. Lighting protection. Helps to disapate lighting to ground.

#3. Secondary grounding protection when using AC, should the bonding wire to the generator or utility supply fail.

#4. It forms half your freakin' antenna! Using half wave antenntas, no ground, and half your antenna is missing!

So please, stop this practice and start fighting against it, it's going to get people hurt.

Yea, sadly it's done all the time. I have no idea who started it but you are right it should stop.

What should also stop is exercises in a parking lot that has no grass and just cement ;-).

 

[chrisf]

Proper grounding saved a few of my operators and a CP vehicle from catastrophic damage when it was hit by lightning.

Maybe one of the techs that are floating around here can answer this question: Which grounding lug is used on the LSVW? The one on the VIP or the one on the power panel? I've heard conflicting reports that one of them is disconnected.

Either one.

Wherever the rumor that one or the other lug was "disconnected" came from was a load of fecal matter as well. They should be both still bonded to the vehicle chassis, if for some reason one happens to not be bonded then that's a problem with that specific vehicle.

I've demonstrated this for several unbelievers on multiple vehicle.  ("But on my QL3 course master-corproal such and such said..." "Call them and ask if they have a electrical engineering degree. If they don't, then I'm right and they're wrong.")


If you know how to use a multimeter, borrow one from your local tech shop or line shop, and check the resistance between the two lugs, should be less than an ohm. Then check the resistance from the lugs to chassis should also be minimal. If you don't know how to use a multimeter, borrow the whole tech or lineman and have them do the same.

 

[chrisf]

What should also stop is exercises in a parking lot that has no grass and just cement ;-).

We operate in an increasingly urban enviroment... people need to learn how to operate PROPERLY and SAFELY in this enviroment.

Running back to the trees won't help.

 

[MrMustard]

I am REALLY glad you mentioned this. Oddly enough, not more than a couple of weeks ago, I had this very discussion with a Cpl at my unit who happens to be an electronics SME. I just looked at him, looked at the ground spike (which was still neatly tucked into its scabbard on the back of the door of the LSVW) and looked at the pavement beneath us and said, "It does nothing to just plop it down behind the tire doesn't it?", to which he replied, "Absolutely nothing".

I suppose you could argue that it is a 'driil' of sorts, and the mere act of connecting it and throwing it under a tire will help everyone remember to do it. So yes, though there is no functionality to it, good ol' muscle memory is always something to practice.

 

[chrisf]

I am REALLY glad you mentioned this. Oddly enough, not more than a couple of weeks ago, I had this very discussion with a Cpl at my unit who happens to be an electronics SME. I just looked at him, looked at the ground spike (which was still neatly tucked into its scabbard on the back of the door of the LSVW) and looked at the pavement beneath us and said, "It does nothing to just plop it down behind the tire doesn't it?", to which he replied, "Absolutely nothing".

An equally good pair of questions would be why it was still stuck in the door, and why, if he was unable to ground the vehicle in that location, was he set up in that location, and why hadn't he moved the truck?

I suppose you could argue that it is a 'driil' of sorts, and the mere act of connecting it and throwing it under a tire will help everyone remember to do it. So yes, though there is no functionality to it, good ol' muscle memory is always something to practice. does nothing.

No, you can't argue that it's a drill, if it's not grounded, it's not set up properly. That makes as much sense as encouraging people to stick their finger down the barrel of their rifle to keep the rain out (But only when it's not loaded).

 

[PuckChaser]

Whats the best way to ground a vehicle that HAS to be set up on a concrete pad? If damage to the grounds wasn't a concern, pounding a hole is fine. The only thing I can think of is having a long grounding cable available and run the spike out to the closest grass/dirt area.

 

[Kat Stevens]

If in a compound, scrounge up a jumper cable clamp and clamp it to a fence post, or any other embedded metal object.  A welder's ground clamp would be even better.

 

[MrMustard]

An equally good pair of questions would be why it was still stuck in the door, and why, if he was unable to ground the vehicle in that location, was he set up in that location, and why hadn't he moved the truck?

No, you can't argue that it's a drill, if it's not grounded, it's not set up properly. That makes as much sense as encouraging people to stick their finger down the barrel of their rifle to keep the rain out (But only when it's not loaded).

Moving the truck wasn't an option. As I said, he's a SME. He knows and he would have if he was able to, but he was not. The gigantic parade square we use as a vehicle compound did not afford him too many options within the time he had to do it in. 

Secondly, I agree with you that putting the ground spike under the tire doesn't actually do anything for grounding the vehicle. What it DOES do, is get troops into the habit of pulling it out and going through the process of connecting it etc so that they don't forget. So that it becomes automatic. Like a drill. I don't need to clear my weapon EVERY time I enter a building because with the 'soldier first' mentality, I ALWAYS know the state of my weapon. No exceptions. But it's the drill, as I've learned it, so I do it.

 

[chrisf]

Whats the best way to ground a vehicle that HAS to be set up on a concrete pad? If damage to the grounds wasn't a concern, pounding a hole is fine. The only thing I can think of is having a long grounding cable available and run the spike out to the closest grass/dirt area.

A longer cable is fine. Use the same gauge as the original spike.

As Kat pointed out, clamping to somthing else that's metal and pounbed into the ground works as well, chain link fences work well. If you're going to use a jumper cable, I'd suggest taping it after it's clamped to prevent the clamp from slipping off.

 

[chrisf]

Moving the truck wasn't an option. As I said, he's a SME. He knows and he would have if he was able to, but he was not. The gigantic parade square we use as a vehicle compound did not afford him too many options within the time he had to do it in. 

Define "SME"'. If he's never had to wear a flash protection suit and walk around like darth vader to turn off a breaker, then he fails to impress me.

The option is to move the vehicle to somewhere it can be suitably grounded.

If your chain of command requires you to set up somewhere the vehicle can't be grounded you have two options. Discuss the unsuitability of the site with your chain of command, and move the vehicle, or come up with an alternate grounding method.

Caveat to all this, operating on the move, the vehicle doesn't need to be grounded, popping the antenna on for a quick comms check, not a big deal...

HOWEVER, OPERATING in a FIXED location, if the vehicle isn't grounded you're doing it wrong, and you're asking to get hurt eventually.

Secondly, I agree with you that putting the ground spike under the tire doesn't actually do anything for grounding the vehicle. What it DOES do, is get troops into the habit of pulling it out and going through the process of connecting it etc so that they don't forget. So that it becomes automatic. Like a drill. I don't need to clear my weapon EVERY time I enter a building because with the 'soldier first' mentality, I ALWAYS know the state of my weapon. No exceptions. But it's the drill, as I've learned it, so I do it.

So you advocate doing somthing wrong for the sake of doing it? Again, that makes as much sense as sticking your finger down the barrely of a rifle to keep the rain out. If you're going to do a drill, you do it right. Thats why it's called a drill.

If you teach people to do the wrong thing, they will continue to do that wrong thing, and teach others to do the same.

 

[Franko]

To alleviate some of your concerns, I've never seen the practice ever done in any CP I either visited or worked in.

Must be a new thing some moron came up with.

Regards

 

[chrisf]

To alleviate some of your concerns, I've never seen the practice ever done in any CP I either visited or worked in.

Must be a new thing some moron came up with.

Regards

I've seen it done many times, across Canada, mostly by inexperienced det commanders, somtimes by very experienced people.

Definitly from a moron though.

 

[josh54243]

On my QL3 course the ground spike had to be 2/3 in the ground or at least buried if spiking it in was not possible (and I assume this is CFSCE standards)

 

[chrisf]

On my QL3 course the ground spike had to be 2/3 in the ground or at least buried if spiking it in was not possible (and I assume this is CFSCE standards)

Yes, that's the standard, and the standard has never changed.

Yet, at some point somone somewhere decided that if you couldn't pound the spike, sticking it under a tire would suffice, and this has continued to propogate, informally, mostly among people too lazy to do it properly.

 

[MrMustard]

Define "SME"'. If he's never had to wear a flash protection suit and walk around like darth vader to turn off a breaker, then he fails to impress me.

The option is to move the vehicle to somewhere it can be suitably grounded.

If your chain of command requires you to set up somewhere the vehicle can't be grounded you have two options. Discuss the unsuitability of the site with your chain of command, and move the vehicle, or come up with an alternate grounding method.

Caveat to all this, operating on the move, the vehicle doesn't need to be grounded, popping the antenna on for a quick comms check, not a big deal...

HOWEVER, OPERATING in a FIXED location, if the vehicle isn't grounded you're doing it wrong, and you're asking to get hurt eventually.

So you advocate doing somthing wrong for the sake of doing it? Again, that makes as much sense as sticking your finger down the barrely of a rifle to keep the rain out. If you're going to do a drill, you do it right. Thats why it's called a drill.

If you teach people to do the wrong thing, they will continue to do that wrong thing, and teach others to do the same.

My SME - he's an electrical engineer. As for the site, it was a quick comms check so it really didn't matter.

And no, I do not advocate doing something wrong for the sake of doing it. Did I say that? I related the action of setting up the ground spike as part of the drill of a det set up. OBVIOUSLY there is ONLY the correct way of doing it - which is hammering the bastard into the ground (yes, even in the Gore!) 2/3 of the way for proper conductivity. All I'm saying, is that whoever started this 'under the tire' nonsense likely did so to get troops into the habit of thinking about the ground spike, but it probably turned into what we know today as an improper function. This then, is a failure of knowledge and by virtue of that, of leadership.

 

[Swingline1984]

Word to the wise.  Just because you pound that pathetic 2 ft rod into the ground does not mean you have a good ground or even a ground at all.  Another bad practice is having several different points of ground, your potential should be the same across the system i.e. All points should be bonded together.  Your coax should also have a polyphaser and a sheath to ground.

 

[Franko]

Word to the wise.  Just because you pound that pathetic 2 ft rod into the ground does not mean you have a good ground or even a ground at all.  Another bad practice is having several different points of ground, your potential should be the same across the system i.e. All points should be bonded together.  Your coax should also have a polyphaser and a sheath to ground.

So is that where the practice of watering the spike comes from?

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

Proximity to the watertable is the idea.  The spike in very (extremely) dry ground really is not that effective.........or so I believe.

Water/wet/moist ground conducts electricity, while dry ground is a poor conductor.