How to best take advantage of a bachelors degree...

[zill1]

Hi,

I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree without being in an administrative position. I will have an undergraduate degree in mathematics at the end of this year. My ultimate interest (and probable pipe dream that people likely hear all the time) would be to apply for or try to stand out to be offered a position in one of the Special operations units. I just don't want to have spent four years for a very challenging degree and not have it somehow aid me in something.

Thanks for any information you could provide me, and I apologize if this question has been answered; I could not find anything relevant.

 

[Osotogari]

If you don't want to end up doing a lot of admin, don't go officer.  Simple as that.  With your math degree they might dangle an opportunity for all sorts of things from clerical to engineering. 
The important thing is what you'd like to get out of your experience and/or your career aspirations.  I'm sure there's already a lot on these boards about special operations opportunities.  Specifically, you may or may not get an opportunity to undertake selection.  If you have any phobias such as heights or tight spaces, you will be made to confront them and it will probably make or break your chance.  Your ability to undertake selection is dependant on your unit's needs.  If you're in a unit that deploys a lot, they might close that off to you. 
Whatever happens, do your research and stick to your guns.  If your trade is oversubscribed then you'll have some other choices to make.

Good luck and start with the pushups and running.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'm curious, during your four years in university, what challenging and exciting jobs did you think a math degree would qualify you for that didn't involve using a desk, computer or administrative skills?

 

[ballz]

I'm curious, during your four years in university, what challenging and exciting jobs did you think a math degree would qualify you for that didn't involve using a desk, computer or administrative skills?

Hahahaha...

Osotogari...

I'm sure if he applies to be a Combat Arms officer he should see a healthy mix of admin and field time no?

 

[zill1]

I'm curious, during your four years in university, what challenging and exciting jobs did you think a math degree would qualify you for that didn't involve using a desk, computer or administrative skills?

A fair point with a simple answer: I love mathematics. Not to mention originally my plan was actuarial or quantitative analysis work. But really math is the most interesting thing in the world for me, so it naturally became my subject of study. But realistically there aren't that many undergraduate degrees out there to prepare you for challenging physical excitement.

 

[Michael OLeary]

A fair point with a simple answer: I love mathematics. Not to mention originally my plan was actuarial or quantitative analysis work. But really math is the most interesting thing in the world for me, so it naturally became my subject of study. But realistically there aren't that many undergraduate degrees out there to prepare you for challenging physical excitement.

OK, with that in mind, how should we answer this:

I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree without being in an administrative position.

What were you expecting to hear?  I'm sure you've diligently applied your well-developed study habits in reviewing all of the possibly relevant trades on the Recruiting website.

 

[Brasidas]

But really math is the most interesting thing in the world for me, so it naturally became my subject of study.

If you want to go combat arms, by all means. But if math "is the most interesting thing in the world" for you, why would you be thinking "special ops"? Are you picturing some sort of William Gibson cyberninja MOC?

Any trade can apply to go to JTF2 or CSOR, but regardless of trade, an assaulter's probably not going to have a lot of overlap with advanced undergraduate calculus.

 

[zill1]

OK, with that in mind, how should we answer this:

What were you expecting to hear?  I'm sure you've diligently applied your well-developed study habits in reviewing all of the possibly relevant trades on the Recruiting website.

I studied to the best of my abilities, and my final conclusion was that if I wanted to have any recognition of education, be it in the form of my paycheck, rank or job it would have to be as an officer doing, according to the recruiting page, lots of administrative work. My question is just this: is it possible to have the best of both worlds.

 

[zill1]

If you want to go combat arms, by all means. But if math "is the most interesting thing in the world" for you, why would you be thinking "special ops"? Are you picturing some sort of William Gibson cyberninja MOC?

Any trade can apply to go to JTF2 or CSOR, but regardless of trade, an assaulter's probably not going to have a lot of overlap with advanced undergraduate calculus.

Some people find space to be the most interesting thing in the world, but they probably can't be astronauts, just like I am DEFINITELY not bright enough to be a mathematician and become a professional student...

 

[ballz]

I studied to the best of my abilities, and my final conclusion was that if I wanted to have any recognition of education, be it in the form of my paycheck, rank or job it would have to be as an officer doing, according to the recruiting page, lots of administrative work. My question is just this: is it possible to have the best of both worlds.

*DISCLAIMER* I have no experience (besides BMOQ... which is essentially nothing) to base my comments off. This is my (probably very uninformed) opinion only. *DISCLAIMER*

Methinks Land Engineering O or Artillery O, which AFAIK have a more "technical" art to them, would be right up your alley. Land Engineering especially might suit you well. Someone will correct me shortly if I'm wrong.

That said, I think any Combat Arms O position can make good use of the way a mathematician's brain is wired.

 

[Michael OLeary]

That said, I think any Combat Arms O position can make good use of the way a mathematician's brain is wired.

Ever hear of ballistics?  Or the geometry required for the design of range safety (when the electronic tools aren't available)? How about the requirement for combat arms officers to fill jobs in equipment projects?

There are applications, but they are not necessarily required of every combat arms officer.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Nor are they very exciting.

Combat engineers do indeed use maths, but somehow I think this fella will find using a 3-4-5 triangle to square off something in the field a little bit 'beneath him'.

To the OP:

You studied mathematics. The shouty-shooty-running around side of life in the army has little use for advanced mathematics. Therefore I doubt there is a best of both worlds for you.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Nor are they very exciting.

They do, however, have the potential to be more exciting than drawing fractal patterns in the foam on lattes as he serves them  If there was a demand for math majors for exciting jobs he'd already have one.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

That said, I think any Combat Arms O position can make good use of the way a mathematician's brain is wired.

Oh and to this gem, every GOOD combat arms officer I have ever worked with has been able to quickly, almost instinctively, think outside the box, and make quick judgement calls under enormous stress, that could result in people dying. I wonder 'how a mathematicians brain is wired' relates to that.


@ Michael O'Leary: True.

 

[zill1]

Oh and to this gem, every GOOD combat arms officer I have ever worked with has been able to quickly, almost instinctively, think outside the box, and make quick judgement calls under enormous stress, that could result in people dying. I wonder 'how a mathematicians brain is wired' relates to that.


@ Michael O'Leary: True.

Math forces one to think analytically and it certainly changed the way I approach things. But to how that relates to how I would perform, well of course I have no experience so I can't comment.

 

[ballz]

Math forces one to think analytically and it certainly changed the way I approach things. But to how that relates to how I would perform, well of course I have no experience so I can't comment.

Advanced math does relate to

Oh and to this gem, every GOOD combat arms officer I have ever worked with has been able to quickly, almost instinctively, think outside the box, and make quick judgement calls under enormous stress, that could result in people dying. I wonder 'how a mathematicians brain is wired' relates to that.

TTG,

You're getting awfully jumpy towards something you clearly discredit without much knowledge of. I get the feeling you haven't had to learn much math past some trigonometry if you don't think math requires you to think outside the box.

If you're wondering how a mathematicians brain is wired relates to what the things you're describing, perhaps you should get a clue about how a mathematicians brain is wired first. The cognitive ability someone holds/acquires to obtain a math degree is pretty impressive, certainly nothing to brush off, discredit, or take for granted, and might just be a valuable part of measuring the potential to become a good leader.

Did I say the definition of a good officer is somebody with a math degree? No. So simmer down.

Ever hear of ballistics?  Or the geometry required for the design of range safety (when the electronic tools aren't available)? How about the requirement for combat arms officers to fill jobs in equipment projects?

There are applications, but they are not necessarily required of every combat arms officer.

Yes I have heard of those, but that's not what I meant at all. I meant in the field, leading troops, that the ability to think as critically, analytically, and as abstractly, as someone who holds a math degree has proven capable of doing, could probably be used almost every day in every day field stuff.

Not required of every combat arms officer, no, but it's just one more asset if you've got it. One more trick in the bag that could prove to be invaluable.

 

[ballz]

Math forces one to think analytically and it certainly changed the way I approach things. But to how that relates to how I would perform, well of course I have no experience so I can't comment.

You loved math, you got educated in it, and that's great. Now you want an exciting career. I am quite sure no matter what career you pick, even if a math degree isn't required, and there's nothing in the job description about doing a ton of math, you will use the things you know and have acquired through education and experience and apply it and make it work.

For you, that may damn well be using an approach or way of thinking learned through years of studying math for almost everything, and if that gets the job done, that's what counts, and it certainly wasn't a waste of your degree to take that career path and do something you end up loving as much as math.

For others, it will be other forms knowledge and/or experience, and if that gets the job done for them and their troops, it wasn't a waste of their time to gain that knowledge or experience either.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Hi,

I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree without being in an administrative position. I will have an undergraduate degree in mathematics at the end of this year. My ultimate interest (and probable pipe dream that people likely hear all the time) would be to apply for or try to stand out to be offered a position in one of the Special operations units. I just don't want to have spent four years for a very challenging degree and not have it somehow aid me in something.

Thanks for any information you could provide me, and I apologize if this question has been answered; I could not find anything relevant.

Apply as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) Combat Arms officer: Armour (booyah!!!!), Infantry or Artillery. I do have colleagues who have some high-speed degrees with elevated math content. Having said that I really don't care what your degree is in - they all have equal value for young Lts.

Cheers!

 

[armychick2009]

As someone who has two degrees (history & education), I'd like to say that at least you have that math base that is keeping me from many NCM jobs. I prefer the hands-on as you do, as opposed to the paper-pushing. I've done 12 years of paper-pushing which is why I'm (at this point) turning down a DEO position with the hopes of doing some NCM work. The problem is, unlike you, I detest math and stopped taking it in grade 10. The glitch? Many NCM positions I would enjoy require the grade 11 math. All these degrees and it don't mean much right now!

So, anyways... that being said -- You have your degree in math. You obviously aren't worried about the decrease in salary by accepting an NCM job. (Same thing I have considered)... but you still want to use your talents, right? You just need to realise that you won't be utilising them to your full degree, if you go NCM. Why not do something outside of the army in your free time, to push your math need there? And then just focus on the job you want to do instead of the job you think will best suit your math brain?

For example, a history degree really can only get me into maybe two positions for Officer and my education? Not even one, unless I obtain a masters degree. So, I have to bite the bullet and take the job that I know will make me HAPPY. (That being said, it's a closed trade right now so that is creating a bit of a headache for me!)  My preferred trade has absolutely nothing to do with Canadian history. It also has absolutely nothing to do with education. But, it is something that'll put the grin on my face when I do it every day! In my free time, I plan to do some work with non-profit groups to ensure heritage spots of interest are kept 'safe' and that I intend on being on committees to help with the advancement of education for a particular demographic of people. So, I will still use my degree, just not at work.

Does that make sense?

So, grab that big ol' list of NCM positions and investigate which ones would bring you personal satisfaction. And then? Find a pet project outside of your immediate work-world, that'll appease your geeky mind


P.S. I'm going to have a degree-burning party sometime in the near future where I'll burn the certificates and degrees of my seven years of post-secondary education! I've learned that for myself, it pretty much wasn't necessary. I'm all for life-long learning but not necessarily of the degree-granting kind now! You're welcome to bring your degree, I'll bring the lighter fluid and match!  ;D

 

[Loachman]

Zill1: You're over-analyzing. Pick something that you simply want to do, regardless of what your degree is, and apply for that.