Iraq hero puts medal on ebay

[Blackadder1916]

Skint Iraq hero's ebay medal
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007230300,00.html

By TOM NEWTON DUNN Defence Editor May 21, 2007

A hard-up soldier faces a court martial for trying to flog his top bravery medal on eBay.

Cpl Trevor Coult, who got a Military Cross for heroism in Iraq, said he needed the cash to support himself when he quits the Army.

But under Forces regulations, it is strictly forbidden for serving soldiers to sell medals.

Top brass were furious as the Military Cross is so prestigious — with only the Victoria Cross and George Cross regarded as higher gallantry awards.

Trevor, 31, won the Cross for single-handedly defeating a suicide bomber’s ambush in Baghdad in 2005. He put four other gongs on the auction website and wanted £80,000 for the lot.

Trevor, serving in the 1st Battalion the Royal Irish Regiment, wrote: “I’m leaving the Army and need the money, otherwise wouldn’t want to sell.”

He told his furious CO he placed the ad only to see what price they could fetch. It has now been withdrawn from eBay.

The MoD said: “Action will be taken where necessary.” As a junior NCO, single Trevor, of Belfast, earns £23,000 a year and often works 24-hour days.

Tory MP and former Army officer Patrick Mercer said: “If the Government paid soldiers properly, his hand may not have been forced in this way. 

 

[Michael OLeary]

Discussion here on the British Medal Forum, including references to relevant Army Act sections.

 

[George Wallace]

This is really not new.  There have been many instances in the past, of former soldiers in desperation doing the same, even here in Canada. 

 

[FredDaHead]

This is really not new.  There have been many instances in the past, of former soldiers in desperation doing the same, even here in Canada. 

How is he so desperate he needs to sell his medals? He's still in the Army and doesn't have to leave; even if he did, and unless the writer forgot to mention something, he's not crippled (at least not physically) and he can at the very least get a minimum-wage job.

I know what you meant, but in this instance, I don't see how he might be desperate.

 

[Big Foot]

Fred, heres a question for you: would you really want to try and scratch together a living on a menial minimum wage job? I didn't think so. Before making comments like that, consider the man's situation and put yourself in that situation. Would you as a decorated combat veteran want to go from being in the army to working minimum wage after you were done your time? Again, didn't think so. It's arguably akin to retired professional athletes putting their prized memorablia (read: championship rings, jerseys, etc) up for sale so that they can afford to have a place to live and put food on the table. We don't know the soldier's exact circumstances so I don't think it's our place to speculate as to whether he is desperate or not.

 

[FredDaHead]

Fred, heres a question for you: would you really want to try and scratch together a living on a menial minimum wage job? I didn't think so. Before making comments like that, consider the man's situation and put yourself in that situation. Would you as a decorated combat veteran want to go from being in the army to working minimum wage after you were done your time? Again, didn't think so. It's arguably akin to retired professional athletes putting their prized memorablia (read: championship rings, jerseys, etc) up for sale so that they can afford to have a place to live and put food on the table. We don't know the soldier's exact circumstances so I don't think it's our place to speculate as to whether he is desperate or not.

The minimum wage is the absolute worst-case scenario. It's extremely likely he'd be able to get an all right job.

Besides, if he needs £80,000 just to sustain himself, there is a lot more to this story than one vet wanting to sell his medals. £80,000 is a hell of a lot of money to just make the transition from Army to civvie; it's more than he made, gross, as a Corporal, per year. According to the British Army website, at the very highest tier for Corporal, he would make £30,572.88 per year. The amount he wanted to get for his medals is, thus, almost three years of salary. Does the good Cpl want to go on vacation for a few years before he gets a post-Army job?

 

[ZipperHead]

Other than the obvious (to most now) that it is illegal for a serving member to sell their medals, who the hell has the right to judge this soldier for wanting to earn some money by parting with their medals. The only reason it is causing any amount of fuss is due to the status of one of the medals that he was looking at selling (the Military Cross). He obviously didn't feel too emotionally attached to them to have placed them on eBay, so who should judge him for this??? Many families have placed the awards of deceased members medals up for sale, and nobody (seems to) blow a gasket over that. He obviously wants/needs the cash more than the "I love me wall" mementos from a war that he wishes to distance himself from. I am willing to bet that they will be up for sale as soon as he is a RSM (retired service member). I think the question people should be asking is: "Why is this decorated soldier so willing to get out, and to sell their awards to boot??" I suspect the good Cpl is a not too happy camper.

Al

 

[Michael OLeary]

Other than the obvious (to most now) that it is illegal for a serving member to sell their medals, who the hell has the right to judge this soldier for wanting to earn some money by parting with their medals. The only reason it is causing any amount of fuss is due to the status of one of the medals that he was looking at selling (the Military Cross). He obviously didn't feel too emotionally attached to them to have placed them on eBay, so who should judge him for this??? Many families have placed the awards of deceased members medals up for sale, and nobody (seems to) blow a gasket over that. He obviously wants/needs the cash more than the "I love me wall" mementos from a war that he wishes to distance himself from. I am willing to bet that they will be up for sale as soon as he is a RSM (retired service member). I think the question people should be asking is: "Why is this decorated soldier so willing to get out, and to sell their awards to boot??" I suspect the good Cpl is a not too happy camper.

Al

Maybe that was just his excuse of the moment and he's not really leaving after all.  Just because someone says they're leaving, doesn't mean they actually do it.

All the information we have is a poorly written e-Bay description and very brief news article (and we all know how much trust we normally put into either of those as credible sources of information).

 

[stealthylizard]

As a junior NCO, single Trevor, of Belfast, earns £23,000 a year and often works 24-hour days.

He may occasionally work 24 hour days, but "often" I don't think is very reliable.  He may be on call 24 hours a day.  It sounds intentionally misleading, almost like we are supposed to feel sorry for him.

 

[ZipperHead]

Maybe that was just his excuse of the moment and he's not really leaving after all.  Just because someone says they're leaving, doesn't mean they actually do it.

All the information we have is a poorly written e-Bay description and very brief news article (and we all know how much trust we normally put into either of those as credible sources of information).

I'm sorry, but that seems like a pretty weak explanation. Any soldier, especially a Cpl, would be hard pressed to try to explain to his higher ups where his medals went to, come his next dress uniform parade, especially when you are the recipient of a high award (as people would definitely be playing "Check out the rack on that guy....."). It's not like he can drop by the NAAFI (UK version of CANEX) and pick up some new gongs to replace the ones he sold.

I know that when I finally get out, if I were to get more than $20 for my pathetic excuse for a rack of medals (UNFICYP, SFOR, CD, CPSM), I would definitely put them up for sale. It's not like you can really do too much with them once you don't wear the uniform anymore, and if wearing them on your Regimental blazer and medals is your thing when you are retired, well, fill yer boots, but this cat (and likely the Cpl in question here) isn't going to play that game.

Al

 

[armyvern]

As a junior NCO, single Trevor, of Belfast, earns £23,000 a year and often works 24-hour days.

He may occasionally work 24 hour days, but "often" I don't think is very reliable.  He may be on call 24 hours a day.  It sounds intentionally misleading, almost like we are supposed to feel sorry for him.

And we don't know his specific circumstances do we? I, for one, try not to rely on the media for the full story and base that upon the "full stories" we so often see in the MSM around here regarding what the CF is up to in Afghanistan and the facts they choose to neglect.

For all we know, this guy, although single, could very well be supporting a very sick or elderly family member on his income as well, many CF members are doing that. Judge not, without the facts...and I don't see all the facts in this story.

I certainly don't see anything in this story that leads to the suggestion that this member is just itching to get out and distance himself from the current British involvement in Iraq/Afghanistan as another member of this forum has insinuated. How quick we are to judge someone based upon...diddly squat.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Other than the obvious (to most now) that it is illegal for a serving member to sell their medals, who the hell has the right to judge this soldier for wanting to earn some money by parting with their medals. The only reason it is causing any amount of fuss is due to the status of one of the medals that he was looking at selling (the Military Cross). He obviously didn't feel too emotionally attached to them to have placed them on eBay, so who should judge him for this??? Many families have placed the awards of deceased members medals up for sale, and nobody (seems to) blow a gasket over that. He obviously wants/needs the cash more than the "I love me wall" mementos from a war that he wishes to distance himself from. I am willing to bet that they will be up for sale as soon as he is a RSM (retired service member). I think the question people should be asking is: "Why is this decorated soldier so willing to get out, and to sell their awards to boot??" I suspect the good Cpl is a not too happy camper.

Al

I think Alan nailed it.  So what if he sells them once he leaves.  He may feel he did his time for his country, and is not interested in what he has pinned on the chest.  He finds out he is sitting with a lump amount in his drawer, so be it, it was awarded to him.

dileas

tess

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'm sorry, but that seems like a pretty weak explanation.

Well, if we're just throwing around hypothetical explanations, this one from another forum is as good as any:

http://www.britishmedalforum.com//viewtopic.php?p=137160#137160

The lot was apparently placed whilst under the influence of alcohol... for a laugh - and quickly pulled once the vendor had realised what he'd done once the hangover had dissipated.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Regardless of his motive, or the quantity of incentive that he imbibed, he may have been a little overexhuberent in estimating the possible price that his MC could fetch, if the estimated fetching price for this recently found Military Cross is any indication.

Found in a treasure chest: The medal that Siegfried Sassoon 'threw into the Mersey in anti-war protest'
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23395626-details/Found+in+a+treasure+chest:+The+medal+that+Siegfried+Sassoon+'threw+into+the+Mersey+in+anti-war+protest'/article.do

The long-lost gallantry award of Siegfried Sassoon - the soldier-poet whose First World War heroics stirred the emotions and consciences of a nation - has been found in an attic.

The Military Cross he was thought to have thrown away in protest at the senseless butchery on the Western Front has turned up in a "treasure chest" on the Isle of Mull, on the West Coast of Scotland.

For years, even his family believed that the officer nicknamed "Mad Jack" for his displays of manic courage had hurled his Military Cross into the Mersey in 1917.

In fact, it was only the MC ribbon that Sassoon had sent floating away on the river "in a paroxysm of exasperation" at the authorities' refusal to court-martial him after he went AWOL and declined to carry out any further military duties.

The actual medal, together with Sassoon's identification tag, is expected to fetch up to £25,000 at Christie's in London on June 6.

His Webley revolver, also found in the attic, has been given to the Imperial War Museum.

Robert Pulvertaft, 45, whose step-father George was Sassoon's only son, is selling the medal on behalf of the family.

He said yesterday: "I had no idea it even existed. Like most people, I thought it had been thrown into the Mersey.

"I found it while clearing out the attic of the family property on Mull. Bizarrely, it was in a treasure chest, like a pirates' chest, covered in cobwebs and long-dead insects.

"The ID tag was there too, along with the revolver in an old Jiffy bag and some poetry medals."

Sassoon - best remembered for "Memoirs of a Fox-Hunting Man" - was serving in France as a second-lieutenant with the Royal Welch Fusiliers when he won the MC for his actions on May 26, 1916.

During a raid on enemy trenches, he remained for 90 minutes under heavy fire collecting and bringing back British wounded and dying.

In another typically wild and heroic exploit, he was so upset at witnessing a friend shot dead through the forehead in front of him that he single-handedly charged and captured a substantial German trench, only to flop down into it and begin reading from a poetry book he pulled from his pocket.

He was also recommended for the Victoria Cross but was eventually awarded a bar to his MC.

Two further recommendations for a bar to the MC -originally a gallantry medal for officers of the rank of captain or below - were refused on the grounds that the overall operations were unsuccessful.

It was on convalescent leave, for a "blighty wound", in 1917 that Sassoon had time to reflect on the horrors of war and became a pacifist of courage, not cowardice.
.........
Reacting violently, also, to the sentimentally patriotic notions of the glamour of war, he declined to return to duty, sending to his commanding officer a copy of "A Soldier's Declaration".
........
The Army, unwilling to bring a national hero before a court marital, preferred to believe he was suffering from shell shock and sent him for treatment at Craiglockhart Hospital, near Edinburgh.

more at link

 

[FastEddy]

I think Alan nailed it.  So what if he sells them once he leaves.  He may feel he did his time for his country, and is not interested in what he has pinned on the chest.  He finds out he is sitting with a lump amount in his drawer, so be it, it was awarded to him.

dileas

tess

Yes that could be very true, and he might have read the plight of the Gurkha who won a VC.

Cheers.

 

[Journeyman]

"Check out the rack on that guy....."

Hmmm.....I don't think I've ever said that -- about a guy.    ;D

 

[legal_eagle]

This was cleared up on the British Army website...I'll try and find the link when I go back there in a minute. I don't know what the law is for you guys, but it is illegal for a serving soldier in the UK to sell any of his medals.

Apparently this 'sale' was a drunken bet, and an advert was placed on 'ebay' with a very high reserve price. He has been severely admonished and the ad has been taken off!!

 

[armyvern]

This was cleared up on the British Army website...I'll try and find the link when I go back there in a minute. I don't know what the law is for you guys, but it is illegal for a serving soldier in the UK to sell any of his medals.

Apparently this 'sale' was a drunken bet, and an advert was placed on 'ebay' with a very high reserve price. He has been severely admonished and the ad has been taken off!!

legal_eagle...

We've already got the hyperlink to the British Army site and the specific Army Act running in this thread:

Discussion here on the British Medal Forum, including references to relevant Army Act sections.

 

[legal_eagle]

legal_eagle...

We've already got the hyperlink to the British Army site and the specific Army Act running in this thread:

OK, my apologies..

SK

 

[armyvern]

OK, my apologies..

SK

No problemo...I just figured I'd save you the work of having to look it all up again...

Vern