LF no BS answer on how to get the new Ruck.

[armyvern]

V,
Did you not state you needed to attend the lectures as well?  If it were as simple as your very capable techs fitting the (eventual) would be users with the jigs, they'd all have the rucks wouldn't they?  I'm suggesting that someone in Ottawa stop that time honoured ass protecting/bank account building bit of leadership known as "carving a niche for myself and only myself for perpetuity" (OK, even I'm a bit guilty).  Unless of course I misread all that and should get those 2 neurons of mine back synapsing together instead of where ever... ;D.

MM

Yes, I did mention lectures. Death by powerpoint.

You mentioned booklets, I mentioned PPTs because if the lectures are really required ... can't anyone present a PPT?

We're trained to do the sizing - quite surely we can also present PPTs (or better yet, hand out pamphlets) too.

If only they'd let us.

 

[medicineman]

But how would they get their extra TD cash then  :?

MM

 

[Teeps74]

Only in Canada... This CTS program appears more and more like some retiree's golden handshake then an actual, kit-the-troops type gig.

I was giddy, happy, and excited when this program started. Finally, someone is taking the needs of the soldiers seriously. Then the Tac Vest came out, followed shortly by hundreds of ignored UCRs.

Now the ruck-sack that requires high priced TD oversight just to issue.

Newsflash!!!

If you need to teach people how to teach how to put it on and size it properly, you made it too complex. If it is too complex, it is going to fail. The infantry/engineers (sorry, not to sound superior, just picking the two groups that live out of rucks most frequently... Arty and armd seem to have big vehs with them everywhere) needs a rucksack, that can be replaced quickly on the battlefield, at three o'clock in the morning, by troops who have not slept in three weeks.

I am sure that this is a fine rucksack. And when fitted properly, it could be the most comfortable ruck on the market... I admit the potential is there. But the supposed complexity, coupled with the self licking lollipop that is the CTS, has put a real sour taste in my mouth.

 

[PuckChaser]

(sorry, not to sound superior, just picking the two groups that live out of rucks most frequently... Arty and armd seem to have big vehs with them everywhere)

On that same token, its been noted on the forums here that the new rucksack is not very armored vehicle friendly either, so just like the TV it's been designed as a camping rucksack, not a warfighting rucksack.

 

[Canadian Mind]

the TV wouldn't even be good for camping, mag pouches aren't sized to fit hunting ammunition.

 

[Pointer]

As title states, looking on how to get the new ruck. Im a Trooper to be deployed on TF 3-09. I wasnt around for the initial kitting of the new Ruck in September. Ive gone to Clothing and asked, but they have no answers. Im also not the only one without it. Going to be kind of stupid when im the only guy on a patrol without the new ruck. Please no answers with "The new ruck sucks, stick with the old oner" or "your armoured you'll never use it".

My thoughts are there must be some kind of system in place to get rucks out to guys who need them. What if a soldier overseas breaks his ruck, or it gets blown up? They must be able to replace it...

Thanks.

I could see how that would be embarrassing - being the only armd crewman amongst your fellow armd crewmen to be wearing the old/64 rucksack on patrol, conducting what must be a long-range/term (necessitating the ruck vs a smaller pack) armoured dismounted (oxymoron) operation.  Of course, such an operation would be an embarrassment in and of itself, so I think your ruck would be the least of your worries.

I'd be more worried about getting the new refrigeration suit thing if I were an armd guy.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

I could see how that would be embarrassing - being the only armd crewman amongst your fellow armd crewmen to be wearing the old/64 rucksack on patrol, conducting what must be a long-range/term (necessitating the ruck vs a smaller pack) armoured dismounted (oxymoron) operation.  Of course, such an operation would be an embarrassment in and of itself, so I think your ruck would be the least of your worries.

I'd be more worried about getting the new refrigeration suit thing if I were an armd guy.

I don't think that what is in question here is his perceived, vs. actual need, or whether the rucksack is judged as a good or bad piece of kit.  What is in question seems to be a policy as echoed by an infanteer on the board, and validated by Vern's explanation that is creating a situation whereby people who are on the scale of entitlement are not able to access that kit, because of some rather severe administrative friction elements.

If you had troops in your platoon in 1VP straight out of battle school who were not around when CTS visited your unit, and as such were not able to be issued the rucks, until the next time that CTS rucksack team was scheduled to come out to Edmonton (which may be during your TF 3-09 Maple Guardian serial, or during pre-deployment leave, or whilst you're deployed) what'd you be saying?

 

[geo]

I know what I'd be saying... but there are ladies & gentlemen here - I will spare you the /$?%&*!!!

 

[geo]

Funny thing that... If I was shopping around for a new car, I would go into the showroom, have a seat in one of their demonstrators & study all the controls that are visible - be they seat adjustments, dash & steering wheel controls, etc.  If the controls aren't laid out & labeled in an intuitive manner AND if I need an instruction manual to figure out how to make things work.... It's too darned complicated & I would walk out the door -  no time flat.

This new rucksack sounds like one of those complicated cars I detest

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

I think the ruck (not having tried it yet, so just a guess) is no more complicated to use than any other internal frame ruck. Even Kifarus come with basic instructions just to ensure that the donning/doffing happens in the right sequence (and these ARE good rucks). This ensures the most comfortable fit every time the ruck is worn. Don ruck, pull shoulder straps, clip belt around waist, pull top staps to pull ruck in, and pull delta-straps on waist belt to pull ruck in.
As someone stated earlier, CTS seems to have gone a little overboard with this one (empire building was the term used I think). Soldiers are not trusted to read a one page instructions sheet with pictures (funny, most of us remember having to assemble the 82 pattern ruck and webbing using the instruction manual - sometimes with some instructor guidance). Now, if they are there to bend the internal stays to "fit" the user, that may be another entirely different issue.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So what happens when someone's ruck gets smashed in the field. No self proclaimed specialist around with fancy assed jigs to fit your new one. Guess you'll have to haul your kit around in garbage bags till you can get the 'specialist' out of his office. Heck, will second and third line echelons (we still have those right? :blotto even have them or be able to issue one without his nibs in CTS saying so?

That is exactly how ridiculous this situation is.

 

[armyvern]

So what happens when someone's ruck gets smashed in the field. No self proclaimed specialist around with fancy assed jigs to fit your new one. Guess you'll have to haul your kit around in garbage bags till you can get the 'specialist' out of his office. Heck, will second and third line echelons (we still have those right? :blotto even have them or be able to issue one without his nibs in CTS saying so?

That is exactly how ridiculous this situation is.

If only you knew how exactly close you were.

We don't stock 'em in 1st or 2nd line echelons. We size you etc etc , final numbers are tallied up. Nominal roll with SN is provided. Confirm that those on the list have the tics' in the boxes.

CTS then directs the SM to 'push' the components to our location from the 3rd echelon to satisfy the guys who've sized/trained. Then we issue to you.

Somedays, I swear we've reverted back to the era of the Crimea (sorry Edward -  ).

 

[medicineman]

As I always say, our motto is "If it makes sense, do the opposite".

MM

 

[medaid]

Frack... Me....

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Multiple size options to fit the end-user - great concept, poor execution.

All Kifaru asks for is height, weight, and inseam. A "custom" ruck is then made with the frame bent to the average user.

 

[Brockvegas]

As an 031, I'll tell you the honest to god truth. Find out what day they're issuing the new rucksacks, then make a doctor/dentist/colonoscopy appoinment for that day. I would gladly take the 82 back, or get my hands on a 64.

The new rucks are great for morning PT marches without any other kit on, and that's about it. They don't work well with the frag or TV. (which is funny when you thin about it, CTS SHOULD have been able to make them compatible)