London attacks underscore Canada's need to be in Afghanistan: Hillier

[Gunner]

General Rick, on the offensive! 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20050714/ca_pr_on_na/terror_hillier

 

[rcr]

I haven't yet been disappointed by what General Hillier has had to say in the news.  If only more folks in Ottawa and across the country echoed his words.  

 

[dutchie]

From Hillier:

"These are detestable murderers and scumbags,"

Ok, Sir, quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel! It's nice to hear a General, the CDS no less, talk like a soldier instead of a politician.

More from the Canada.com site (Global):

OTTAWA -- Canadians need to prepare psychologically for the strong possibility some of their soldiers will be killed in a new military operation in southern Afghanistan, says the head of the armed forces.

"Is there a probability that we're going to take casualties? Yes, of course," Gen. Rick Hillier said Thursday.

"Can I give you a number of what we're going to take? Absolutely not."

Canada is sending a team of about 250 soldiers, along with Foreign Affairs officials, development workers and Mounties, to Afghanistan's volatile Kandahar province.

A small part of what's dubbed a provincial reconstruction team, or PRT, will begin deploying early next week, with the bulk of troops starting to move out, mainly from Edmonton, beginning the following week.

Afghan officials have warned that Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network is planning Iraq-style attacks against soldiers in the region. Last month, an American PRT in Kandahar was struck by a suicide bomber -- in the same area where Canada's team will be deployed. Four soldiers were injured.

Casualties are a reality of military life, Hillier said, although he doubts Canadians are ready for that possibility.

"No, I don't believe they are," said Hillier, appointed chief of defence staff earlier this year.

"But there needs to be an awareness across Canada that we're in a dangerous business."

Critics also question whether the public has the stomach for bloodshed coming from Canada's new role in Afghanistan.

"Kandahar will be the acid test of whether or not we can bear the price of our latest goal," Nic Boisvert wrote in an article published this week by the Council for Canadian Security in the 21st Century.

"It is best to find out now if we don't have the royal jelly to handle the task.

"It is going to take moral courage and political leadership. Are we up to it?"

Despite the increased danger in Kandahar -- compared with the relatively safe haven of Kabul where Canada lost three soldiers in the line of duty -- the military doesn't plan to change the way it operates for the PRT.

"Same, exact strategy," said Hillier. "A three-block war" approach, where troops focus on small pockets within communities to avoid getting involved in large conflicts.

"We're going to prosecute some operations there and we're going to go after the Taliban in some cases," he said.

"The Brits do it superbly, the Aussies do it superbly, we do it superbly."

In Kabul, Canada has seen success with a strategy of trying to win over the hearts and minds of local residents by providing security while aiding reconstruction projects. It remains to be seen, however, whether Canadians will be welcome in Kandahar.

"We're going to take absolutely every step possible to set up conditions for success and a reduced risk," Hillier said.

"I believe we can put in place in Kandahar ... the best-equipped structure inside of Afghanistan."

"But we still can't reduce the risk to zero. It's still a high-risk area."

© Canadian Press 2005

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=df22fd2b-4447-4253-80d3-b45ae09a41c2

 

[Gunner98]

CDS isn't going to make the same casualty prediction mistake that MGen Andy made prior to Roto 0 deployment.  He seems to have found a balance between soldier, politician and American strategicist.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What mistake was that?

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Very impressive indeed....


Matthew. 

 

[54/102 CEF]

I would think the quiet approach of delivering troops and patrolling and whatever offensive capabiltiy exists is more appropriate.

Comments like that?

Inappropriate - because they draw attention .....

Better to let the opposition experience your aimed fire than amazingly empty talk of calling them scumbags

Cdn troops are perfectly capable of handling any threats they may encounter

 

[Roy Harding]

I would think the quiet approach of delivering troops and patrolling and whatever offensive capabiltiy exists is more appropriate.

Comments like that?

Inappropriate - because they draw attention .....

Better to let the opposition experience your aimed fire than amazingly empty talk of calling them scumbags

Cdn troops are perfectly capable of handling any threats they may encounter

I served with Gen Hillier when he was Comd MND(SW) in Bosnia in 00/01.  He was an approachable man, humourous and down to earth.  His troops (of all nations involved) appreciated him, and understood what he was saying.  Allied Commanders and his NATO superiors respected his judgement and military prowess.  His "bay boy Newfie" persona masks a keen intellect and clear understanding of the world as it is.

When I served in Afghanistan under American command in 02, I was impressed with the rapport American Commanders had with their troops (including us Canadians).  It may sound hokey in hind sight, but to hear your Brigade commander make decidedly un-politically correct statements in his speeches to the troops was certainly a morale booster.  Statements such as "we're going to kick some ass", and various other remarks which I cannot quote at the moment were a refreshing change from the usually politically correct political speeches we receive from senior Canadians (CDS, Comd JTFSWA, etc), who seemed more interested in not rocking their political masters worlds than inspiring the troops.

Despite your feeling that Gen Hillier's remarks are "amazingly empty talk", I find his remarks an amazingly adept effort at establishing rapport not only with serving troops, but with the average Canadian on the street who doesn't give a rat's, nor understand "asynchronous threat", but certainly CAN understand what a "scumbag" is.

Well done, Gen Hillier - don't let the politically correct bastards get you down!

 

[mover1]

Comments like that?

Inappropriate - because they draw attention .....

Your absolutely right the General should have said ......that were were going to deliver a combat capable diverse force of public servants under the department of national defence into the region. To promote peace and harmony though our peacekeepers. Via ethical leadership and correctness in bearing our peacekeeping forces will stabilise the region. The problem we face are that the adversary   are of an unwelcome nature to the well being and prosperity to those whose lives they affect (These are detestable murderers and scumbags)

Remember   to   vote Mover 1 for prime minister!!!!  

 

[Roy Harding]

Remeber  to  vote Mover 1 for prime minister!!!! 

You've got my vote, Mover 1!!!  ;D

 

[mover1]

Thanks Retired CC

since your my first supporter I give you choice on either the senate or a cabinet post.

         

 

[Roy Harding]

Thanks Retired CC

since your my first supporter I give you choice on either the senate or a cabinet post.

         

I'll take the cabinet post.  That way, I'll be able to scheme, eventually stab you in the back, and then take YOUR job!

See - I've got all the qualification required to be a big time party politician!

 

[mover1]

Blenida Stronarch you have just met your match

 

[kilekaldar]

Word around the Battalion is that the politicians are getting cold feet about Kandahar and Afghanistan in general, and they are thinking about cancelling the move and staying on in Kabul to take over command, or pulling everyone back completely from the country and going home.
I realize this is just a rumor, but it would be very much in character for our spineless, risk-adverse, domestic optics obsessed government.
Anyone else hear anything?
Thoughts, comments?

 

[mover1]

Never hear anything like that. Althoug someone better phone Trenton as the move to Khandahar is well under way by pre deploying stuff there.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Word around the Battalion is that the politicians are getting cold feet about Kandahar and Afghanistan in general, and they are thinking about cancelling the move and staying on in Kabul to take over command, or pulling everyone back completely from the country and going home.
I realize this is just a rumor, but it would be very much in character for our spineless, risk-adverse, domestic optics obsessed government.
Anyone else hear anything?
Thoughts, comments?

It's a rumour - and a bad one at that.

I nearly choked on my breakfast at the General's "kill people" quote on Canada AM this morning... Good to hear... ;D

 

[paracowboy]

LOVE that guy!

 

[Gunner98]

MGen Andy's prediction of 10 body bags - it had a strange foreboding once the mine strike happened.

 

[54/102 CEF]

I served with Gen Hillier ....
When I served in Afghanistan under American command in 02, I was impressed with the rapport American Commanders had with their troops (including us Canadians).  It may sound hokey in hind sight, but to hear your Brigade commander make decidedly un-politically correct statements in his speeches to the troops was certainly a morale booster.  ........inspiring the troops......amazingly adept effort at establishing rapport not only with serving troops, but with the average Canadian on the street

Well done, Gen Hillier - don't let the politically correct bastards get you down!

Feel better now?

Last time I checked the political side made rapport with the man in the street - so maybe you can tell us all where the General's mandate to whip up "shoot'em up" comments like that comes from.

Political correctness is setting goals and achieving them - and we are all keenly focussed on certain jobs when called upon to do them. So keep training but lets think about the wisdom of talk about wiping out the "Scumbags."

What we are doing right is being part of the coalition and taking on the achievable and demanding missions. No argument.

I refer you all to a speech last year by former CENTCOM Commander Tony Zinni at http://www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/printversion.cfm?documentID=2208&from_page=../program/document.cfm

He was talking about Iraq but this applies equally to any theatre in the far east

extracts.....

The locals have to be brought in as partners because .......

There is a Ho Chi Minh trail here.  Somewhere, somehow people are getting in the jihadis.....

We also have to stop the tough talk rhetoric.  One thing you learn in this business is, don't say it unless you're going to do it.  In this part of the world, strength matters.  And if you say you are going to go in and wipe them out, you better do it.  If you say you're going to do it and then you back off and find another solution, you have lost face.  And we have got to stop the kind of bravado and talk that only leads us into trouble out there.  We need to be more serious and more mature in what we project as an image. Our whole public relations effort out there has been a disaster.  I read the newspapers from the region every night online, and if you watch Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya, or even some of the more moderate stations out there, and you read the editorials in the newspaper, there is a different war being portrayed in that region.  A different conflict than we're getting from Fox, CNN, CBS, et cetera. 

This is just his opinion - and we all have ours but if he says stop the tough talk - maybe we should ask why he would say that?

Think of how the Hells Angels have been taken down in recent years - the other side can be defeated the same way, a quiet steady action oriented campaign which demands the same performance from the supporters of the Army and those in the Army.

And if that's not enough to keep your busy - try taking on this problem

Here's another insight - in the years before WW2 both Germany and Japan indoctrinated their youth with a seething violent nationalism which we know erupted as their invading armies.

Check out this story from today's paper

The Ottawa Citizen 2005.07.15 Zahid Hussain

The school of hate and bigotry: Thousands of young Muslims are being brainwashed at hardline religious schools that preach jihad and justify terrorism, Zahid Hussain reports from Pakistan.

Sporting black turbans or skull caps, the young men squatting on a carpeted floor in a crowded classroom listen in rapt silence to a lecture delivered by a thickly bearded middle-aged cleric. The students are at the final stage of their religious education at Darul Uloom Haqqania, one of Pakistan's leading institutions of Islamic learning. Situated in the town of Akora Khatak near Peshawar, the radical seminary is often described as the "University of Jihad."

The seminary, which was established in 1947, has been the cradle of the Taliban militia that ruled Afghanistan for more than five years before being ousted by U.S.-led coalition forces in 2001. Many of the Taliban leaders graduated from the school.
The seminary has also been a recruiting centre for militant Pakistani groups fighting Indian forces in the disputed region of Kashmir. Many of the 2,500 students at the school come from Afghanistan. But the number of foreign students has now declined following government pressure.

"The bomb attacks in London are the reaction against the British government's support for America's war against Muslims," said Maulana Samiul Haq, a fiery, black-turbaned cleric who is head of the seminary. He is also an MP in Pakistan. "The loss of innocent lives is regrettable, but the British government should think why it all happened. It is time to review its policy on Iraq and Afghanistan."

The school teaches the concept of jihad to prepare students to fight for the cause of Islam. "Jihad is an essential part of Islam," said Mr. Haq.

The proliferation of jihad organizations in Pakistan over the past two decades has been the result of the militant culture espoused by radical madrassas, the hardline religious schools, like Darul Uloom Haqqania. They pose a threat to Pakistan's internal security as well the international community. Pakistani madrassas were once considered centres for basic religious learning, mostly attached to local mosques. The more formal ones were used for training clergy. The progression of simple, sparse religious schools into training centres for Kalashnikov-toting religious warriors is directly linked with the rise of militant Islam.

Most of the pupils come from the poorest section of society and receive free religious education, lodgings and meals. Most of the madrassas have been isolated from the outside world for centuries. Students are brainwashed and the textbooks provide a one dimensional world view that restricts their thought process.
Conditions in the schools are regularly condemned by human rights groups as crowded and inhuman. The day begins at dawn with morning prayer. A simple breakfast of bread and tea is served, followed by academic lessons, which continue until evening.
The students are subjected to a regime as harsh as any jail and physical abuses are commonplace. In many schools students are put in chains and heavy iron fetters for the slightest violation of rules. There are almost no extracurricular activities. Television and radio are banned. Teaching is very rudimentary and students are taught religion within a highly traditional perspective.

At the primary stage, pupils learn how to read, memorize and recite the Koran. Though the focus is on religious learning, some institutions also teach elementary mathematics, science and English.

The most dangerous consequence of the schools is that students emerge ill-prepared for any work except guiding the faithful in rituals that do not require great expertise. Job opportunities for graduates are few and far between. They can only work in mosques, madrassas or religious parties and their business affiliates.

The education imparted by traditional madrassas spawns factional, religious and cultural conflicts. It creates barriers to modern knowledge and breeds bigotry, laying the foundation on which fundamentalism is based. Divided along sectarian lines, these institutions are driven by the zeal to outnumber and dominate rival sects.

The rise of a jihad culture since the 1980s has given them a new sense of purpose. The number of madrassas multiplied and clergy emerged as a powerful political and social force. At independence in 1947, there were only 137 madrassas in Pakistan. Government sources put today's figure at 13,000 with total enrolment close to 1.7 million.

How are we going to deal with this?

 

[Roy Harding]

Feel better now?

Last time I checked the political side made rapport with the man in the street - so maybe you can tell us all where the General's mandate to whip up "shoot'em up" comments like that comes from.

Heck, I wasn't feeling bad to start with - no need to "feel better".

As for the rest of your post - all extremely thought provoking, and worth considering and discussing.

I don't think the impact of the General's bluntness on the morale of many serving troops can be overlooked - it's nice to be able to cheer for a CDS once in a while, rather than whine about him, don't you think?