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NCI OP career progression

seadog70

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I've checked this site, and others, and have found some of the information that I've been searching for, but would like to get some more clarification. As my PO said, "...black and spic and span white...", so here's my inquiry;
I am currently doing my BMQ at St Jean, fun stuff, and would like to know what I can expect regarding NETP and any other training courses I may encounter for my job ( yes , I enrolled as an NCI OP) . Specifically, regarding the job training courses, I'm curious about the time frame ( length of course, when they become available) for the PL3's and 'beyond', PL5's and any other course that may come after that. I do realize that there are some new regulations coming into effect for 1 JAN 2012 ( or so I've been told) so that may effect some regulation timings , or what have you, but any insight as too how long I may have to wait to take any "upgrading" courses, of course lets assume I'm one of those 'go-getters' who isn't going to be happy just 'showing up for work and breathing...'.
I realize specific info may not be possible, any general insight would be helpful.

Thanks
 

MasterInstructor

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Well, I am a NES Op and I can only give information in regards to NETP and what to expect when you get to Esquimalt.

You will be a PAT for a while, biggest thing will be waiting for your security clearance. You might get onto your QL3 in 2 months or 8... It took about 8 months for me start my course.

During this PAT time, you most likely will be tasked with duties... These duties range from helping other units with manual labour, ceremonies, even sailing. I sailed with reserve units as a PAT and we recently had few PAT NCI Ops on HMCS Regina.

You might or might not complete your NETP while waiting your QL3. Also, keep in mind you might sail without NETP.

One thing I would suggest is having a passport. As a PAT, military won't pay your passport fees, so if you do not have one go get one. In both sails as a PAT, they were looking people with a passport. It will increase your chances of sailing.

I know this is much information but it is just the way navy is. You will see when you get here! Any other questions, let me know!
 

Occam

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MasterInstructor said:
One thing I would suggest is having a passport. As a PAT, military won't pay your passport fees, so if you do not have one go get one. In both sails as a PAT, they were looking people with a passport. It will increase your chances of sailing.

While I agree that having a passport is a good idea just in case you want to travel to the US for whatever, if the CF requires you to travel to the US (or elsewhere), then they will pay for a passport (a green passport, not the blue civvy passport you'll get if you apply yourself).
 
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aesop081

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.....and a passport (any type) is still not required for travel to the US (or any NATO country for that matter).

NATO travel orders will do just fine.
 

Occam

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CDN Aviator said:
.....and a passport (any type) is still not required for travel to the US (or any NATO country for that matter).

NATO travel orders will do just fine.

I'm not familiar with NATO travel orders.  The limit of my experience with duty travel (other than with the Navy, that is) was during my last posting, and that involved PCO taskings - which, regardless of destination, required a green passport.
 
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aesop081

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Occam said:
I'm not familiar with NATO travel orders. 

I've used them fairly frequently in several NATO countries. We just showed them to Customs/border agents when they asked for passports and it was always good to go, even with US border agents. They also always came in handy when shopping at the NEX/MCX/PX/BX when they asked to see our orders at the checkout (some places actualy do).
 

Stoker

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CDN Aviator said:
.....and a passport (any type) is still not required for travel to the US (or any NATO country for that matter).

NATO travel orders will do just fine.

When we go to the US we are required to have a blue passport in case we have to be re-patted. The cost of the passport is reimbursed. I don't think they use the green too much anymore at least in MARLANT.
 

Occam

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CDN Aviator said:
I've used them fairly frequently in several NATO countries. We just showed them to Customs/border agents when they asked for passports and it was always good to go, even with US border agents. They also always came in handy when shopping at the NEX/MCX/PX/BX when they asked to see our orders at the checkout (some places actualy do).

Predominantly an Air Force thing?

Shopping at the NEX in Roosey Roads (before it closed), Norfolk and Charleston just required us to show our ID card - although it's been almost 14 years since the last time I did any of that.

Chief Stoker said:
When we go to the US we are required to have a blue passport in case we have to be re-patted. The cost of the passport is reimbursed. I don't think they use the green too much anymore at least in MARLANT.

Interesting...I didn't think they would ever reimburse costs for a blue passport under any circumstances, when there were green passports for "official government status" travel at no cost to the member.
 

Stoker

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Occam said:
Predominantly an Air Force thing?

Shopping at the NEX in Roosey Roads (before it closed), Norfolk and Charleston just required us to show our ID card - although it's been almost 14 years since the last time I did any of that.

Interesting...I didn't think they would ever reimburse costs for a blue passport under any circumstances, when there were green passports for "official government status" travel at no cost to the member.

Never been asked for travel orders at any Naval base NEX I have been at. The only time I was asked was at Hunter Army Airbase in Savannah at the PX.
I think the green passports are gone at least in our case that it ID'd us as military or government. I let mind expire and DND even reimbursed me for the rush fee.
Ah Roosey Roads brings back memories of Papa Joes:)
 
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aesop081

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Occam said:
Predominantly an Air Force thing?

Maybe but they are a valid travel document to any NATO country.

Shopping at the NEX in Roosey Roads (before it closed), Norfolk and Charleston just required us to show our ID card - although it's been almost 14 years since the last time I did any of that.

Yeah, i found it was hit&miss from one place to the other. Bases used to seeing Canadians did not usualy ask, but others where our presence was less normal tended to ask to see our orders. Even some bases like NAS North Island, where our presence was regular, went through short stints where they applied their rules to the letter.

Chief Stoker said:
Never been asked for travel orders at any Naval base NEX I have been at.

I've been asked for mine at NAS North Island, NB San Diego, NAB Coronado, NAS Key West, 29-Palms and several other USAF and USA bases.

I think the green passports are gone

I still have mine and used it regularly up until recently. Every squadron member had one.
 

seadog70

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hmm, well thanks for the info, I knew that I could be waiting for awhile on PAT to do my QL3, and NETP could take some time, as I understand it, the waiting is primarily due to having enough students ready to do the course, and of course an instuctor.
Thanks for some insight into the timeframe MasterInstuctor, and I guess I should get a passport, or wait and see?
One of my instuctors is an RMS Clerk , and wears the Navy Blues , so he may some light to shed on that topic as well. I'm trying to ready myself with information before the last minute so I can be ready for whatever may come up.
Thanks for the replies, does anyone know how long it could take to be "fully qaulified" in my trade, years or months, or is this another one of those " wait and see/ it all depends " . It does sound like I will be able to do something while I'm waiting for the qaulifications, which is nice.
5 weeks until Grad week!
 

gashbag

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Seadog,

I am an NCIOP and you can expect the following:  As mentioned before there may be an extended waiting period until your coursing starts but...if you are one of the lucky ones your security clearance will be completed before you leave BMQ.  From past experience as an instructor at the school your name is already designated for a specific course start date which is then modified depending on whether your clearance is in and also assuming on your successful completion of BMQ.

Your QL3 or PL3 nowadays I suppose is about 4mths in length and gives you the basic trade info to allow you to get onboard a ship and commence your OJT(on the job training). Beyond that the timelines do get sketchy, if you are a superstar and get some seatime you can move fast but keep in mind that our trade just recently shifted our junior level training again so most people are still in the dark about training timelines but here is a "rough" idea, yrs 0-3 = QL3, QL4, yrs 3-5 = QL5a, QL5b after that it slows down because of limited job positions and a relatively young upper echelon in our trade
 

seadog70

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Gashbag, thanks for the insight, just what I was looking for. Regarding the security clearance, our class signed some papers that had our clearance levels on them, while I thought this was what we were "agreeing" to ( so DND could proceed with our security check/clearance) , others were saying that the levels one the papers were what we received for our security level clearance. So maybe I got lucky and have my security clearance in hand, basically anything I can do while I'm waiting in order to help things move along is what I want to do, so thanks for some insight into what to expect.
 

PMedMoe

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Occam said:
Interesting...I didn't think they would ever reimburse costs for a blue passport under any circumstances, when there were green passports for "official government status" travel at no cost to the member.

I had the cost for my blue passport reimbursed last time I went to A'stan, because with the green one we were required to have a visa to pass through a certain country.  ::)  I even had to put a rush on it and it was covered.
 

MasterInstructor

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regarding passport discussion:

Military will pay for a passport if they require you to have it, it is true sometimes you get a green passport etc.

BUT

In the PAT world, it does not work like that. Usually, you are sitting in a room watching TV all day, your PO2 gets an email from the school chief asking if he/she has any personnel to sail for a week, 2 or whatever. Usually with only a week or two notice. Then your PO comes to the PAT room, asks who wants to sail and have a passport. Sail could be to Seattle, San Francisco, up north (passport preferred even staying with in canada, specially if the ship is ready duty ship).

At this point you either have a passport, get to sail and have a good time. Or sit in the PAT room and watch TV. No time for passport claim , no green passport, no NATO travel orders.... Even if there is time for a claim/ getting a passport, if there is a guy sitting beside you that has a passport, guess what, he is going. Nobody wants to do extra paperwork!

I have sailed twice for a total of 4 weeks as a PAT, both sails I get to go on because I had a passport.

PS: NCI Ops might or might not have a specific PAT room but either way, you are sitting watching TV somewhere, waiting for taskings that range from sailing to moving furniture, painting etc.
 

MasterInstructor

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Occam said:
Interesting...I didn't think they would ever reimburse costs for a blue passport under any circumstances, when there were green passports for "official government status" travel at no cost to the member.

From what I know, Navy sails with Blue passports... Maybe a 6 deployment is different but all sails I have been on, we all use our blue passports and cost is reimbursed when you renew or if you do not have one when you get posted to a ship.
 

seadog70

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AHA! A passport then I shall seek. If it means the difference between waiting and actually doing something ( and therefore hopefully being seen as "proactive") then I choose the latter.
 

MasterInstructor

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MasterInstructor said:
From what I know, Navy sails with Blue passports... Maybe a 6 month deployment is different but all sails I have been on, we all use our blue passports and cost is reimbursed when you renew or if you do not have one when you get posted to a ship.
 

gashbag

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seadog70,
your most welcome beside the muchly discussed passport issue.... the only thing i can recommend you look into is basic math and physics. There common point of the Ql3 course that people have issue with is relative velocity or RELVEL. Having said that if you can divide by two and can answer the following question then you should be fine. ( If you are travelling at 10 miles per hour how far will you go in an hour?) It may seem obvious but some people have a hard time understanding.  Aslo if you know how to use a "speed, Time, Distance" triangle formula your golden

Master Instructor,
you are correct having a passport is not yet 100% required but it may as well be. The Navy (west coast at least) sails using the normal blue passports having said that, I am not 100% sure of the East coast guys as they do a lot of NATO trips and may require the green maybe a East coasty can jump in and answer that one.
 
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