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Next Iteration of the Naval Warfare Officer Rebranding

dangerboy

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All that to say, alot of the fear surrounding ammunition movement and storage might be best managed through some sort of more formalized training/ awareness building.
There is the exciting Unit Ammo Rep and Unit Explosive Safety Officers Course
 

Blackadder1916

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(Looks at the army guys putting out their butts on the full ammo cases... )

While the army may not be as anal as the navy (a service with an historic predilection for "rum, bum and the lash") they do have certain standards. One of the things taught (at least back in the dark ages) during the first drill period (first smoke break) was to field strip cigarette butts. It's even included in (some? all?) range standing orders. Of course, the army's policy may be equally focused on avoiding burning down tents, setting grasslands on fire or keeping the RSM's grass neat and clean.

Petawawa's
c. smoking and all stoves and heat sources for food or drink preparation shall only take place in designated areas that are free from combustion sources;

d. all smoking materials shall be field stripped to ensure they are completely extinguished;
 

dapaterson

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COA 1 was clearly flawed. You'd need two different vehicles, appropriately spaced, so as not to mix natures.
 

Navy_Pete

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The Navy does all sorts of ridiculous things which don't make any sense. A real good example is Harbour Evolutions where the Ship isn't operating under power. Everyone I've talked to will always say "You need a BWK on the Bridge if you are doing a Cold Move" and they will force a BWK off leave to come in and do a Cold Move even though they don't hold Charge (that is retained by the OOD) and the Queen's Harbour Master is entirely responsible for the Safety of the Vessel once the lines are let go. In fact, if something does get screwed up while they are doing the move, it's entirely on the Pilot, yet we still have an OOW standing there on the Bridge, for no other reason other than someone somewhere said we had to, in contradiction of HCI's.
That's always a fun discussion; had a BWK tell me he had to have charge, knowing full well it was with the pilot in charge.

Had to once do that nightmare scenario of cold move after hours with the duty watch (got lucky and the buffer on a sister ship heard about it and helped out), so laughed at them and rattled off the refs, but the whole thing is silly.
 

dapaterson

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That would be danger close for my trebuchet with flaming pitch.

Don't worry, I'll have a firefighter from dockyard standing by with a portable fire extinguisher.
 

Weinie

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That would be danger close for my trebuchet with flaming pitch.

Don't worry, I'll have a firefighter from dockyard standing by with a portable fire extinguisher.
And if you or any of your crew is still alive to wind up the counterweight, load the flaming pitch, and then release it in my direction, I guess I will burn.
 

dimsum

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There is the exciting Unit Ammo Rep and Unit Explosive Safety Officers Course
oh yes GIF
 

Halifax Tar

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The whole ship ammunitioning process has been openly mocked and joked about for my entire 21 years, by all ranks, and I expect going back long before that. At what point does this not leech up to the powers that be and the process is either investigated, validated and communicated or investigated and changed ?
 

Underway

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While the army may not be as anal as the navy (a service with an historic predilection for "rum, bum and the lash") they do have certain standards. One of the things taught (at least back in the dark ages) during the first drill period (first smoke break) was to field strip cigarette butts. It's even included in (some? all?) range standing orders. Of course, the army's policy may be equally focused on avoiding burning down tents, setting grasslands on fire or keeping the RSM's grass neat and clean.
I was more referring to the differences in paranoia between the army and navy regarding ammunition safety than a criticism of the army. I've actually seen a WO put out a cigarette on an ammo case and then field strip it.

I worked with the army for a few years. Sitting in a LAV bombed up with extra 7.62, 5.56, grenades, 40mm grenades, M72's and the MCpl with a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth. Didn't even think twice about it. Nor should he have. It takes a hell of a lot more than a lit cig to set that stuff off. More likely the halon would go off... lol
 

Halifax Tar

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I was more referring to the differences in paranoia between the army and navy regarding ammunition safety than a criticism of the army. I've actually seen a WO put out a cigarette on an ammo case and then field strip it.

I worked with the army for a few years. Sitting in a LAV bombed up with extra 7.62, 5.56, grenades, 40mm grenades, M72's and the MCpl with a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth. Didn't even think twice about it. Nor should he have. It takes a hell of a lot more than a lit cig to set that stuff off. More likely the halon would go off... lol

I share your experiences and your head scratching. But I ask again, at what point is open stupidity addressed and challenged ?
 

Underway

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I share your experiences and your head scratching. But I ask again, at what point is open stupidity addressed and challenged ?
The National Explosives Management Authority (I might have missed an "A" for ammo in there, still on first coffee... ) has much more control over ammunition management on the ship than some might realize. And of course, the Ammo Tech Authority does as well, who certify our magazines and ammunition safety standards. Neither of these organizations is RCN controlled.

There is also a new NATO rule where a ship that carries ammunition that isn't a warship can not go into port unless it's to load or unload that ammo. This means if JSS is classified as a non-warship could not go alongside Halifax unless it unloaded all its ammo every single time!

And the last reason is that an ammo accident on a warship is far far worse than one in a LAV. Not only in potential lives lost but in strategic impact to Canadian security. Historically the Halifax disaster likely adds some trepidation.

Despite all this, there is definitively some pushback. Ship internal ammo transfer rules were imaginary, and Sea Training 2 years ago clarified them. They are far more permissive than they used to be. 1. Clear the route. 2. No smoking or cell phones within 2m of the route. 3. Use two hands for each "unit" of ammo. That's basically it.
 
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