Noob Questions

[frankyboy1]

Hey guys,

I'm considering doing basic training and have a few questions:

1) Do I have to sign on for more than just basic training, or if the army life isn't for me can I opt out after basic is over?
2) If I do basic training and decide the army isn't for me, can I ever be called to duty for any reason (e.g. Canada goes to war)?
3) Is it possible to become a pilot with an undergraduate degree in Business?

Thanks!

 

[nn1988]

From the CAF website:

TERMS OF SERVICE

When you join the Regular Force, you are expected to sign on for several years of service. The CF offers terms of service (also called engagements) of differing lengths. If you are found suitable and offered employment the first engagement you will receive is called a Variable Initial Engagement (VIE).

The length of a VIE varies depending upon the operational requirements of each occupation and the training time required for an individual to become fully employable. VIEs range in length from three to eleven years, however, officers enrolled under subsidized education plans can receive a VIE up to 13 years to cover academic training. If you would like to know the length of the VIE for a specific occupation please tell us which occupation(s) you are interested in and we will assist you.

If you continue your military career you may be offered further terms of service. A Continuing Engagement, an Intermediate Engagement and/or an Indefinite Period of Service can follow a VIE.

See signature of reply #18 if you're interested in "contract" aka TOS approximate length for NCM occupations - it's an old document but should give you an overview.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30846.0.html


In the regular force, deployment is not voluntary, whereas in the Reserve Force deployment is voluntary. There are a few factors that influence one's deployment case: i.e Personnel Evaluation Report (P.E.R), fitness operational deployment standards, military occupation and length of Terms of Service (contract) circumstances etc.


For Pilot..

If you already have a university degree, the Canadian Forces will decide if your academic program matches the criteria for this job and may place you directly into the required on-the-job training program following basic training. Basic training and military officer qualification training are required before being assigned.

 

[runormal]

1) Yes you will, for NCM Trades I hear its usually 3-5 years. Officers are very complicated as there are several plans of entry, if you already have a degree it will be shorter. but the best bet would be ask a CFRC about that.
2) I don't know.
3) Yes , you can.

If you aren't sure what you want to do, you could always try the reserve force, that is a good way to test out the army. That being said if you are going to look at the reserves for very short period of time, you might as well just go reg force.  So if you have some schooling left or an apprenticeship, or even just a current job and want to go part time there is always that option.

I am in the reserves so that is all I can speak of. I know if you want to get out of the reserve force you can without little difficulty.  I know it is different withe Reg Force, but I cannot comment on that, since I am only in the reserves.

Your best bet for these questions would be the CFRC, trust me I had similar questions as well.

 

[Mudshuvel]

Hey guys,

I'm considering doing basic training and have a few questions:

1) Do I have to sign on for more than just basic training, or if the army life isn't for me can I opt out after basic is over?
2) If I do basic training and decide the army isn't for me, can I ever be called to duty for any reason (e.g. Canada goes to war)?
3) Is it possible to become a pilot with an undergraduate degree in Business?

When you sign on, its a 5-year variable engagement in some cases. As runormal stated, try the reserves. If your primary trade choice is pilot, then unfortunately you may want to look on the civilian side. There are a few Lieutenants that have been here on base just waiting for the call for training- one in excess of four years.
'Opt out after Basic is over', may not be as simple as it sounds. Some places have a mandatory 6 months after your Voluntary Release is placed in which you will be doing general duties and not much can be done to change that.

Sit back, think about it and do some research. If you want to give it a try, give 'er, otherwise check out some local Reserve Units as it may be a better testbed for you then you can transfer to the regular force after.

 

[frankyboy1]

Thanks for the info gents.

Is basic training in the Reserves much different than the CF? Is it an easy transition into the CF after Reserves basic training?

I heard the CF is scaling down its Air Force. Should I not even bother trying to become a pilot (waiting 4 years for the call sounds pretty awful) or is the scenario mudshuvel is talking about an outlier?

Runormal, if I'm looking at a short time period, why would I may as well join reg over reserves? The general consensus seems to be it's easier to opt out in reserves than reg forces.

 

[2ndChoiceName]

The Army Reserve is a part of the CF just like the Reg Force is.

As far as I know, since Reserve BMQ is only 20 training days, and Reg Force BMQ is 10 weeks, if you decide you want to Component Transfer from Reserve to Reg force on completion of Reserve BMQ, you will have to re-do BMQ, this time the 10 week one. Also keep in mind Component Transfers can take months to years to go through on top of however long it takes you to get into the Reserves.

TL;DR: Reserve BMQ is similar, but shorter than Reg Force BMQ. And no, it is not an easy transition.

 

[runormal]

Reserve basic skips out on things, and I know Reg Force Basic is more in depth. That being said I've heard if you get something like 66 + Class B days you will skip on basic.

The component transfer is the most interesting thing in the world, IT varies for everyone. I've heard of a 5 week transfer, i know a girl who transferred over in 3 months.  I also know people who have tried to transfer over to get into airforce trades and got declined due to the medical. Lots of guys in my unit have CT ins. I know a guy who will be at the 1 year mark soon with nothing other than the acknowledgement that it has been processed (There are no place in the trade available for him) I know a third guy who will soon be going over the 2 year mark, his unit forgot to notify him about his interview, and now there no more trades for the fiscal year. The rule of thumb is (1-2) years, but even in my few examples you have seen both extremes.

As with anything with the military, your mileage may vary.

There are lots of factors (whether you are changing your trade, what the Cf's needs are and your rank) Right now (From what I've heard) MCPL ACISS can get over no problem, but it is harder for a CPL ACISSS as they require ACISS with leadership positions. This stuff changes all the time, and will vary trade to trade, year to year.

The short term period is relative your job In order to get trained.  Again, I know two different infanteers, 1 took two years get trade qualified, and one took 4 months. Different units have different SOPS, some will say get as much OJT as possible, some will say no we don't want you being "a part" of the unit you are trained, you will stay in pat troop until you are done.  (The other problem is you can't technically sleep outside without SQ complete, they have added it to basic so it is getting better in that regard. ) The bulk of your training for trades courses will happen in the summer (as it runs the university and highschool schedule) You can do weekend BMQ's and weekend SQ's (rare) as well as weekend driver wheels, as far as I am aware you can't do anything else on a weekend, but I am not sure. My self I got trade qualified in two years. (I could of been trade qualified in 1 year but i turned down the course to do other employment commitments). But most people in my unit were not that lucky, it was only because I was on the first basic in training year, and on the first sq in the summer. It depends.

So the reason if you only plan on just testing the army (I.E Basic and possibly SQ) , depending on your unit you may not get the whole army experience  until after you are fully trained (1-2 years). Then you if decided you like the army and put in a CT and wait another (1-2) years to get in. Hopefully, but a CT isn't a guarantee either. My friend and I are trying to figure out when the "best time" for us to put in a CT, so we can get into the regs with the most of our degree complete, but I'd rather get in early as opposed to wait a year after graduating if not longer.

So that way if you had some schooling or left over by the time you decided if you liked it or not you wouldn't be "wasting" time. That being said there would be no problem working civy side and doing reserves on the side, and then waiting. Just if you love the army after the reserves you will be waiting a lot longer then if you were to go in the regs, straight off civy street.

I was the same way as you, I applied for ROTP and got declined, and after I asked myself "Do I really want a career in the army, was that blessing in disguise?" The recruiter told me try the reserves see if you like it. So I did, here I am 2 years later and about to start a driver wheel next week. I love it and wouldn't change a thing. Like you said thoug it is much easier to get out the reserves, I believe all it is a memo and you have to return all your issued kit. I know of two people who have left voluntary since I've joined and I don't remember it being a big deal at all.

I know this is a very long post, but I hope it is helpful. I tried to give as many examples, and tried to tell you as much as possible.

Cheers,

 

[frankyboy1]

Great info, runormal. It seems like things vary quite a lot which is potentially unsettling.

I understand its tough to get out of the army after BMQ (in reg force), but is there any more concrete info I can get? Is it simply a matter of how an officer feels that day?

This might be a question for the pilot section, but apparently you need a perfectly healthy heart to become a pilot. Supposedly I have a "normal heart structure with trace regurgitation", where trace regurgitation is normal and common in most people, but I'm not sure if it is perfectly healthy. Before I go through with the application process (if I do), it'd be great if someone knew whether "oh, that's fine" or "no, they definitely won't consider you". Or is there someone in particular I should be asking about that?

Thanks again dudes.

 

[TinaK]

It's my understanding that once you're done basic, you're expected to complete your contractual Variable Initial Engagement, which can be quite long depending on your trade, unless there are extenuating circumstances - but I've known of guys who were seriously injured and couldn't even finish a qualifications course for any trade, who were forced to finish out their VIE on PAT platoon before they were released. You can VR while doing basic, but there are rules attached to that as well, and it can take awhile.

In all honesty, if you're really unsure, think really hard before you commit to reserve or reg force. Yes, it can be easier to release from the reserves, but it's not necessarily a great intro life in the Forces if you're more interested in a reg position, and while you can CT to the reg force, it can take a long time and isn't guaranteed. There's tons of info on these forums about the life, you can talk to members and read elsewhere too about what's involved, too.

 

[uzi]

In regular, if you want to quit you can do it at any time, but it will take up to half year. It doesn't matter you are PAT, trade school or afterwards. I have seen a lot of people did it. You can even change your mind during releasing process. But, if you are young, maybe it's better to finish your contract. Only 4 years, it's a good life experience.