NORAD renewed indefinitely and to have maritime surveillance

[MarkOttawa]

Somehow the other papers missed this, "Tories quietly expand NORAD":
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1146261012750&call_pageid=968332188492

Excerpts:

'Stephen Harper's government has quietly committed Canada to "indefinite" participation in NORAD and agreed to give the military alliance new responsibilities to watch for a terror attack by sea.

Fresh off his softwood lumber truce, Harper's government yesterday gave another boost to Canada-U.S. relations when it signed off on the renewal of the landmark North American Aerospace Defence Command treaty.

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor and David Wilkins, the U.S. ambassador in Canada, signed the new pact at a "ceremony in Ottawa," according to Janelle Hironimus, a spokesperson with the U.S. State Department.

Yet in Ottawa, officials with the Harper government tried to keep word of the renewal under wraps...

With Canadian officials saying nothing, it was left to U.S. officials to lay out the details of the renewal.

"The new agreement expands NORAD's mission by adding maritime warning to NORAD's aerospace defence mission," Hironimus said.

This will be a first for the joint Canada-United States defence agency, which in the past has been responsible only for guarding the skies over North America.

The new responsibility involves watching the coasts for suspicious vessels that could be used for a terror attack, a serious threat that has been a concern to both countries. But the vigilance also includes watching for drug traffickers and human smugglers too.

Unlike the current agreement, which will expire on May 12, this new deal will run indefinitely, "acknowledging the mature nature of the U.S.-Canadian defence partnership," Hironimus said...

While the Conservatives are sure to trumpet the deal as yet further proof of improving relations with the U.S., negotiations for the renewal were "largely completed" before they took office in February, Hironimus said...

In Canada, opposition politicians will get their own briefing on Monday in advance of a debate on the new pact on Wednesday.

And the Conservative government has relented and will allow a vote on the agreement on Thursday, Parliament Hill sources say...'

Mark
Ottawa

 

[orange.paint]

Funny thing is under the liberals we were trialing this in capebreton with the USA.The canadian army (armd school) navy (i believe the toronto?) rcmp ert teams and a large amount of scientist from DRDC.Along with the auoras and other sensors being tested.

there was a web page up on it but I cant seem to find it right now.

 

[GAP]

Good. Glad to hear it!

 

[17thRecceSgt]

ummm...we did this stuff in the late '60's and all thru the 70's...just had a different "name and flavour" back then.  Different PM and Opposition Party then too?

Same sh*t...different day.  Now let's watch the Canadian Public get all rowled up over this one too....sigh.

MRM

 

[Bart Nikodem]

I'm glad they added maritime surveillance to the pact. Remember when that boat full of illegal migrants arrived in northern BC a few years ago? Hopefully it won't happen again with this deal in place.
All the best,
Bart

 

[aesop081]

WOW !!

Looking for drug boats, illigal immigrants on boats, watching suspicious merchant vessels........

Yeah thats a new one  :

 

[paracowboy]

sensationalism-mongering amongst the media carrion-feeders. This is the same thing that the Guv'mint has been doing since the formation of NORAD. Anti-Conservative bias at work? Or just keeping the new government under a microscope, and trying to appear relevent?

 

[aesop081]

sensationalism-mongering amongst the media carrion-feeders. This is the same thing that the Guv'mint has been doing since the formation of NORAD. Anti-Conservative bias at work? Or just keeping the new government under a microscope, and trying to appear relevent?

A little from column A, a little from column B......

 

[Bart Nikodem]

WOW !!

Looking for drug boats, illigal immigrants on boats, watching suspicious merchant vessels........

Yeah thats a new one  Roll Eyes

To answer the question in your profile box, yes I am confused. Are you saying NORAD already was doing maritime surveillance when the boatload of illegal migrants showed up?
If so, did they drop the ball by not intercepting it sooner? Or was the Canadian government kept in the dark about it to motivate it to beef up it's border security once the illegal migrants showed up? Either way, I think this deal is a step in the right direction.
IIRC the migrants showed up pre 9/11 so the response now might be a bit more robust regardless of wether there was a deal in place, whatever the case may be I don't think this deal is a bad idea.
All the best,
Bart

 

[Michael OLeary]

Are you saying NORAD already was doing maritime surveillance when the boatload of illegal migrants showed up?
If so, did they drop the ball by not intercepting it sooner? Or was the Canadian government kept in the dark about it to motivate it to beef up it's border security once the illegal migrants showed up?

Since you would like to infer that the arrival of that vessel was a failure of sorts, please explain what radar or optical surveillance technology can positively identify that a particular ship carries illegal immigrants.

 

[paracowboy]

Since you would like to infer that the arrival of that vessel was a failure of sorts, please explain what radar or optical surveillance technology can positively identify that a particular ship carries illegal immigrants.

Teslan Infra-Thermal-Fluoroscope, of course. Where you been? Then you engage with transporters and just beam 'em back to wherever.

Geez, man. Try to keep up.

 

[aesop081]

To answer the question in your profile box, yes I am confused. Are you saying NORAD already was doing maritime surveillance when the boatload of illegal migrants showed up?
If so, did they drop the ball by not intercepting it sooner? Or was the Canadian government kept in the dark about it to motivate it to beef up it's border security once the illegal migrants showed up? Either way, I think this deal is a step in the right direction.
IIRC the migrants showed up pre 9/11 so the response now might be a bit more robust regardless of wether there was a deal in place, whatever the case may be I don't think this deal is a bad idea.
All the best,
Bart

The CP-140 comunity has been patroling canada's waters for over 25 years now. I canot dwell into the mechanics of our reporting system and our chain of command for maritime surveilance operations in Home waters.  But i will tell you this, nothing will change.  We will continue to patrol Canada's AOR on all 3 coasts as we have always done.  The US will do the same in their waters.

Now for your next point:

have you ever spent 10 hours in an Aurora over the pacific looking for illigal fishing, illegal immigration, illigal drugs, etc... ?  Do you have a clue how difficult it is to do ?  Do you know how many ships i see in those 10 hours ?  I dare you to come and see what i do and tell me which ships are doing something illegal and which ones arent.  That a ship slipped by is something thats going to happen.  If you have an objection to that, call your MP and tell him you want more maritime patrol planes and crews.

I see in your pic that you are a medic, stick to doing FA and patching up bullet wounds and dont critize how i do my job.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

And before the Aurora days, the Argus crews did it too...my dad was a FE on the Argus when VP 415 was in CFB Summerside (Sqn Snr FE and in Crew 1 "The Gropers").  I would bet if you could find some Neptune crews they too patrolled our waters.  Are the Liberals suggesting they didn't know our Air Force was doing this or that they "never thought of THAT one whoopsie!".  Come on.  Give me a break.

Just something else that the Liberals can use to whip up stupid stuff in the news...some people believe everything in the news (cause "The News" couldn't be wrong...) but if they stopped and thought about it...the Liberals didn't have our Air Force flying over our waters?  Hmmm.  Good call.  :

 

[Centurian1985]

Having worked at the Canadian NORAD Region, I can say that none of those tasking are new... perhaps it was just never officially written down anywhere before and nobody told us?  ;D

 

[CanuckTroop]

I think this is crap. I'm watching Harper and he's going to get his ass kicked in the next election if we get too cozy with the US. In my opinion I can't believe we aren't playing hardball right now with our resources in order to get what we want as far as trade agreements go. Harper is a puppet. He's beefing up the military, which is good, but on with his other hand he's tying us into the defense plans os the US. I don't buy it. You should read "Continental integration by stealth" to get a more accurate view of what's going on here. If you guys start whining about "The Liberal Media" like all the right wing nuts in the US i'm really going to start getting worried....

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1146174636411&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Show me in the article where it says anything about the Harper Govt taking an interest in this.......

 

[CanuckTroop]

Show me in the article where it says anything about the Harper Govt taking an interest in this.......

It's not in the article. It's my opinion of where this is heading. These groups are the "think tanks" that come up with government policy before the government itself tries to enact it on us. Just like the article explains:

" Based at the headquarters of NORTHCOM and the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) in Colorado Springs, the planning group was intended to devise counterpoints to critics' concerns, while postponing formal decision-making until a more politically opportune moment".

As I said, everyone should not be buying into the "Harper is great for the military, therefore, he's great for Canada" crap. All I'm saying is watch what he's doing. We as Canadians DO NOT NEED closer ties to US foreign policy! If you think that you're out of your tree IMO. We need to stay at arms lenghth from their crazy policies and start flexing a little more of our own muscle. Canada needs a stronger armed forces to maintain our sovereignty from the US as well as defend against other foreign aggression. If you believe closer ties to US foreign policy is a good thing, please explain why?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

As I said, everyone should not be buying into the "Harper is great for the military, therefore, he's great for Canada" crap. All I'm saying is watch what he's doing. We as Canadians DO NOT NEED closer ties to US foreign policy! If you think that you're out of your tree IMO. We need to stay at arms lenghth from their crazy policies and start flexing a little more of our own muscle. Canada needs a stronger armed forces to maintain our sovereignty from the US as well as defend against other foreign aggression. If you believe closer ties to US foreign policy is a good thing, please explain why?

So...not much of a fan of the United States?

 

[aesop081]

I think this is crap. I'm watching Harper and he's going to get his *** kicked in the next election if we get too cozy with the US. In my opinion I can't believe we aren't playing hardball right now with our resources in order to get what we want as far as trade agreements go. Harper is a puppet. He's beefing up the military, which is good, but on with his other hand he's tying us into the defense plans os the US. I don't buy it. You should read "Continental integration by stealth" to get a more accurate view of what's going on here. If you guys start whining about "The Liberal Media" like all the right wing nuts in the US i'm really going to start getting worried....

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1146174636411&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Explain to me how NORAD doing maritime surveillance hurts our sovereinty ?

 

[CanuckTroop]

So...not much of a fan of the United States?

I'm a big fan of the US as a  geographical landmass, and it'd be nice to have it in our inventory. I'm not a fan of the government that now occupies the White House (and Middle East).