Of SeaKings, Chinooks and Desert Sands

[Kirkhill]

Reprinted under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Opened for interest and discussion.

Five modified Sea Kings practice carrying troops in N.B. exercise


OTTAWA (CP) - Soldiers about to deploy to Afghanistan trained last month on five of the navy's geriatric Sea Kings, raising questions about whether the troublesome helicopters are eventually bound for war-torn Kandahar.
The Canadian army is desperately short of helicopter support and military planners have scoured the globe, hoping to lease choppers for the army's increasingly dangerous mission in Afghanistan.

They've come up empty-handed.

The Boeing Corp. - makers of the Chinook heavy-lift helicopter - and Pentagon staff told Canadian officials last month in Washington that no military choppers are available for lease, say defence industry sources.

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The refusal is a blow to Canadian war planners hoping to get soldiers off the dangerous explosive-sewn highways around Kandahar and into the relative safety of helicopters.

The Seattle, Wash.-based aerospace giant said it's not in the business of renting aircraft and the U.S. Army, bogged down with the war in Iraq, has "no spare capacity," said the source, who asked not to be identified.

A proposal to use modified Sea Kings in Afghanistan has been kicking around military circles, but for the moment the air force says it has no immediate plans to let them join the fight.

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"We're not sending Sea Kings to Afghanistan," said Lieut. Adam Thomson, a military spokesman.

"What's going to be decided in the future, I can't speculate on right now."

Over the last few months, five Sea Kings were stripped of their anti-submarine gear and equipped with troop seats, army radios and global positioning equipment.

The modifications, which began in May, were carried out under contract with Halifax-based Industrial Marine Products or IMP, a defence source said.

While the air force says it's not specifically preparing Sea Kings for an Afghan mission, planners are in the final stage of a so-called "proof of concept" exercise, meant to test whether the soon-to-be retired navy helicopter can fulfill an army role.

 
Last month, the 1960s vintage aircraft were sent to the army's principal East Coast base at Gagetown, N.B., where pilots trained with members of the Royal Canadian Regiment - many of whom are scheduled to go to Kandahar in February.

The aircraft are also slated to take part in a joint Canadian-U.S. military exercise next month, where pilots will practise ferrying troops to and from an American amphibious ship, said another military source.

Following that operation, a decision will be made about whether the Sea Kings are capable of deploying to support the army for troop transport, say defence sources.

Thomson acknowledged the air force is "experimenting" with the Sea Kings, but declined to speculate on their role after the joint exercise is complete.

The Conservative government announced plans last summer to buy 16 heavy-lift helicopters and wants a contract with Boeing for Chinooks by next summer. But the delivery date for the first aircraft is more than three years away, making the purchase almost useless to troops who currently face a barrage of car and motorcycle bombers.

Canadian troops in Afghanistan rely on other countries, such the U.S., Britain and the Netherlands, to ferry them into combat and to pickup their wounded.

Defence Department insiders insist the refurbished Sea Kings can do limited jobs in Kandahar, such as ferrying troops and supplies to far-flung desert bases. The aircraft is not capable, however, of lifting artillery guns, specifically the army's new M-777 howitzers - a key requirement for Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier.

In July 2005, Hillier publicly ruled out sending the notoriously unreliable helicopters overseas, but as the carnage grows, there's more pressure to get soldiers some kind of air support.

A former helicopter commander said the Sea Kings would be well suited for a support role in Afghanistan, despite the aircraft's age, mechanical problems and high maintenance needs.

"If you maintain them and pay attention to the maintenance requirements of the desert, the aircraft is very capable of operating in that environment," said Larry McWha, retired air force colonel.

His only concern relates to the helicopter's ability to defend itself from ground-based insurgent attacks.

"You'd have to have some kind of protection for crews from small-arms fire and protection from heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles," said McWha.

"And you have to have guns of some sort to fire back if you're attacked."



© The Canadian Press, 2006

http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=canada_home&articleID=2429606

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Such speculation...

Even an uneducated guess would suggest that these aircraft are connected with the upcoming SCTF trial and not with Afghanistan.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Sea Kings MODIFIED FOR TRANSPORT?  :

This is news to me!    ???

WOW I can't beleive that they are going to send these to KAF!   


Makes me proud to be a Canadian! 

GO GET EM!    :threat:

 

[beenthere]

I Would think that someone put 2 and 2 together and came up with 7. Slow news days can make for creative writing.

 

[Kirkhill]

Sea Kings MODIFIED FOR TRANSPORT?   :

This is news to me!    ???

WOW I can't beleive that they are going to send these to KAF!   


Makes me proud to be a Canadian!   

GO GET EM!    :threat:

Actually, I think it was made public some months ago that the insides of some SeaKings were going to be hauled out to use them as troop transports.  So that isn't news per se.  The speculation is news.  But as TR says they are more likely to end up being used on the USS Gunston Hall for the amphib trials.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Sea Kings MODIFIED FOR TRANSPORT?  :

This is news to me!    ???

WOW I can't beleive that they are going to send these to KAF!   


Makes me proud to be a Canadian! 

GO GET EM!    :threat:

We really do need a sarcasm smiley... ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

:-[

 

[bison33]

IMP did modify 5 SeaKings for transport and so far,  about 50 Vandoos have done the dunker(RUET) course in Darmouth.....I'll leave the rest up for speculation.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Sorry about that, it was pure sarcasm, I have been following the SCTF Ex for a while now.  I feel that I am going miss out on one cool exercise......

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Busy day stamping out rumours...

Just so everyone is clear, the media IS putting 2 + 2 and coming up with 4345.  Sea Kings indeed have been seen in Gagetown.  Three letters- SCF.

As for Sea Kings in Afghanistan- I've said it before and I will say it again, the laws of physics and aerodynamics do not permit such a deployment.  Full stop.  There is no secret conspiracy here.

Please do not feed the media with idle speculation.

Thank-you.

 

[STONEY]

I guess we aren't the only ones short of helo's for the sandbox.  The Brits are talking to Agusta Westland  & Denmark  about the possibility of diverting 6 transport versions of the EH101 off the production line from an order of 14 EH101's presently being delivered to Denmark from a earlier order. The 6 helo's would be replaced on the production line for a later delivery to Denmark.  The Brits are also looking to urgently buy AGL's for pintel mounting on vehicles. 

Cheers

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Have they disposed of the airframes for the Labs yet? If not, send them off for a complete gutting, re-engine, new avioncs, new rotors etc. Would take at least a year to get the first few in the air if they started tomorrow. Not perfect, but it is an imperfect world.

 

[icatq]

SeaKing Tacco has it bang on.

I've flown Sea Kings, Lynx and EH101. No matter how much you strip out an ASW Sea King it is not going to function in Afghanistan - except as a gate ornament (at which it may do a very fine job!).

I would also like to point out that its great that the Van doos are doing dunker drills - but that just points to what the sea kings are really preparing for. Much as as sea king may ditch in Afghanistan the likelihood of soldiers requiring underwater escape drills is pretty minimal.