RE: MPs

[army]

Posted by Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca> on Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:48:04 -0700
Funny you should mention the role of the MP‘s -- we just hosted a
menningitis clinic on Griesbach and there were literally thousands of
families descending on the Base in dire need of management - in the two days
and Wed night I was there not one Red Beret did I see manning traffic
control points - I saw lots of reserve mbrs from 15 Svc Bn and 8FER - both
of whom did a good job by the way - but there was not an MP in sight
I found that sort of odd.....

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[army]

Posted by Timothy Gunn <timothy_gunn@excite.com> on Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:20:55 -0800 (PST)
You are sort of right. I think the MP‘s should be doing more work with war
time policeing.
Timothy Gunn
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[army]

Posted by "Steve Clark" <clark.petawawa@sympatico.ca> on Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:01:17 -0500
Or paying them a signing bonus?
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:47 AM
Subject: MPs
> resources to make our MPs into clones of the civvy police is that after
6-10
> years many of the MPs quit and join the higher paying civilian forces.
This
> puts the CF back into the vicious circle of hirng and training more MPs.
We
> have the same problem with the MPs that the CF are having with pilots,
> doctors, dentists and lawyers.
>
> Clive
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[army]

Posted by "dave newcombe" <davebo@seaside.net> on Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:58:13 -0800
Don‘t you think all members should get a signing bonus. It might help them
them to decide in favor of staying, despite public indifference, and
political impotence.
On the subject of materiel equipment, our fighting forces have always gone
further, fought harder, and brought honor to our country, in time of war.
While always having to do it with inferior and insufficient weapons and
supplies.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Clark"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: MPs
> Or paying them a signing bonus?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:47 AM
> Subject: MPs
>
>
> > resources to make our MPs into clones of the civvy police is that after
> 6-10
> > years many of the MPs quit and join the higher paying civilian forces.
> This
> > puts the CF back into the vicious circle of hirng and training more MPs.
> We
> > have the same problem with the MPs that the CF are having with pilots,
> > doctors, dentists and lawyers.
> >
> > Clive
>
>
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[army]

Posted by Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca> on Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:34:10 -0700
I have a better Idea - why don‘t we just sub-contract all policing services
including investigations to the RCMP, disband the MP trade as presently
constituted and return them to their traditional roles of traffic control
and Base Security.
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[army]

Posted by Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca on Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:03:46 -0500
I agree
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: Derrick Forsythe [mailtoerrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca]
Sent: March 3, 2000 10:34 AM
To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘
Subject: RE: MPs
I have a better Idea - why don‘t we just sub-contract all policing services
including investigations to the RCMP, disband the MP trade as presently
constituted and return them to their traditional roles of traffic control
and Base Security.
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[army]

Posted by "John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com> on Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:23:06 -0500
I believe that in the Netherlands, Belguim, France Italy the National
Police Forces, all handle the Military Policing for their respective Armed
Forces, why not Canada !
It would free up some troops for other duties !
-----Original Message-----
From: Derrick Forsythe
To: ‘army@cipherlogic.on.ca‘
Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: MPs
>I have a better Idea - why don‘t we just sub-contract all policing services
>including investigations to the RCMP, disband the MP trade as presently
>constituted and return them to their traditional roles of traffic control
>and Base Security.
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>message body.
>
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[army]

Posted by "Larry MacDonald" <lmacdona@mnsi.net> on Sat, 4 Mar 2000 07:57:36 -0500
You have raised some interesting points. It is my understanding that
contracting domestic police services was seriously considered a number of
years ago 17 - 20 yrs, but for various reasons was rejected. Also in
consideration was firefighting, ambulance and similar housekeeping services
that are necessary in any community. Regardless, the decision was made to
retain the domestic policing functions. Having done so, it is equally
important to ensure that staff are trained and equipped to perform the
functions required.
For those interested, there is a interesting web site that provides focus on
the Canadian Military Police history and specifically the Canadian Provost
Corps. It can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/provostsgt/
Regards
Larry MacDonald
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> [mailtowner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca]On Behalf Of
> Clive.Law@dfait-maeci.gc.ca
> Sent: March 2, 2000 10:48 AM
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: MPs
>
>
> I brought up this subject several years ago and almost got severely flamed
> for my negative attitude. Nonetheless, I am a slow learner and once flamed
> is not necessarily twice shy.
> According to a CanFor Gen that I read yesterday Military Police in Canada
> will now be issued a black work uniform, similar in appearance to civilian
> police forces whoops, politically incorrect terminology, police
> servicesacross North America, and available off the shelf.
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[army]

Posted by Carl Dinsdale <joscol@mb.sympatico.ca> on Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:28:05 -0600
Being a former infantry soldier and now a member of the RCMP, I can understand
the dilemma MPs face in peace time work. By being base bound, they are
assuming the role of a small municipal police force with little or no
functions that are strictly military oriented. The obvious problems with this
is the fact that the MPs cannot be autonomous from the chain of command and it
can effect the way they do their job. We are fools to think that a MP at the
Cpl rank would not be intimidated when dealing with senior NCOs and high
ranking officers. I don‘t think the elimination of the trade is called for, as
the MPs still have important functions when assigned to field units. Perhaps
the idea of contracting an outside agency RCMP, OPP, etc to police the base
side would be a viable alternative. This way you could be sure that the
policing of criminal matters would be done in a totally unbiased fashion and
the investigators would not be subject to the pressures of rank.
Just a thought.
Carl
Timothy Gunn wrote:
> You are sort of right. I think the MP‘s should be doing more work with war
> time policeing.
>
> Timothy Gunn
>
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[army]

Posted by Patrick Cain <patrickcain@snappingturtle.net> on Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:43:41 -0500
At 20:28 06/03/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Being a former infantry soldier and now a member of the RCMP, I can
understand
>the dilemma MPs face in peace time work. By being base bound, they are
>assuming the role of a small municipal police force with little or no
>functions that are strictly military oriented. The obvious problems with this
>is the fact that the MPs cannot be autonomous from the chain of command
and it
>can effect the way they do their job. We are fools to think that a MP at the
>Cpl rank would not be intimidated when dealing with senior NCOs and high
>ranking officers. I don‘t think the elimination of the trade is called
for, as
>the MPs still have important functions when assigned to field units. Perhaps
>the idea of contracting an outside agency RCMP, OPP, etc to police the base
>side would be a viable alternative. This way you could be sure that the
>policing of criminal matters would be done in a totally unbiased fashion and
>the investigators would not be subject to the pressures of rank.
>Just a thought.
Some of the testimony at the Somalia inquiry seemed to suggest that this
would be a good idea. The transcripts of MP WOs and MWOs interviewing
senior officers came across as embarrassingly sycophantic, and some of the
tactics the Airborne used to use to deflect the Petawawa MPs should have
resulted in obstruction-of-justice charges. The suggestion at the time of
the inquiry was that the garrison-side MP function would be better handled
by an RCMP detatchment on base. They could pop the base commander in cells
if they liked they wouldn‘t have to answer to him.
Which leaves functions like policing in an operational environment, as
distinct from roles like route signage and POW and defaulter handling.
Canadian precedent would seem to allow for using a militarized version of
the RCMP in the field the old Provost Corps was recruited largely from the
RCMP/NWMP at the beginning of both world wars. In the modern context, I
don‘t see why it would be impossible to give selected Mounties enough
training with weapons, small tactics and so forth to be militarily useful
in a crisis, while preserving enough of their independence to enable them
to function as independent police officers in the field.
Patrick Cain
voice: 416 539-0939
fax: 416 515-3698
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