Shooting on HMS Astute

[CougarKing]

link

LONDON - A British sailor aboard a nuclear-powered submarine apparently shot dead a crew member and seriously wounded another Friday while the vessel was on a goodwill visit to an English port, officials said.

The suspect was overpowered by colleagues and visiting dignitaries aboard HMS Astute and arrested on suspicion of murder.

Police and military officials said the incident was not related to terrorism, but offered few details about what may have prompted a sailor to open fire during a tour of the submarine by local officials, including the mayor of Southampton, in southern England.

Britain's Press Association news agency reported the dead and injured crewmen were officers, and the suspect a sentry armed with an SA80 service rifle. Submariners do not routinely carry loaded firearms aboard ships, but those on sentry duty are armed.

Southampton city council leader Royston Smith said he was in the submarine's control room when a man entered, said something, then retreated to a corridor. Two shots rang out before the man walked back in and opened fire.

"I decided the best form of defence at that point was probably to disarm the chap," Smith told the BBC.

Smith said he and others managed to wrestle the gun away from the suspect and subdue him.

Hampshire Police Chief Superintendent David Thomas said only that a gun went off aboard the submarine, "which resulted in two crew members being injured."

"One of these injuries proved fatal. A man, also a member of the Royal Navy, was arrested at the scene on suspicion of murder," Thomas said. "Submarine security was not breached as part of this incident and it is not terrorist-related."

He said the wounded sailor's injuries were "significant," but his condition was stable.

The Defence Ministry said it would not release the names of the dead and injured until their families had been informed.

Defence Secretary Liam Fox said he was saddened by the "tragic incident."

Police said they were called to the shooting just after 12 p.m. (1100 GMT, 7:00 a.m. EDT). They said all of the approximately 30 people aboard the submarine at the time would be interviewed as witnesses.

The submarine, which is based in Scotland, was on a five-day visit to Southampton.

The 1 billion pound ($1.6 billion) vessel is one of Britain's fleet of 11 nuclear-powered submarines, armed with Spearfish torpedoes and Tomahawk cruise missiles. Its reactor is designed to last for the vessel's 25-year operational life, meaning it will never need to be refuelled .

The 328-foot-long (100-meter-long) submarine's short career has been dogged by problems. Originally, due to enter service in 2005, it began active duty in 2010, years behind schedule and millions of dollars over budget.

In October, the Astute hit rocks and ran aground near the Isle of Skye off the west coast of Scotland. It was stuck for several hours until it was towed to safety. The vessel's commander was later removed from his post.

The Defence Ministry said it planned to open a Royal Navy investigation into Friday's shooting.
...]

 

[old medic]

Submarine shooting: councillor wrestled gun off serviceman

Southampton council leader tells how he fought with gunman after one officer killed and another injured on nuclear sub HMS Astute
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/09/submarine-shooting-councillor-wrestled-gun

A council leader has spoken of how he wrestled a gunman to the ground after he shot at two Royal Navy officers on board a nuclear submarine, killing one.

The dramatic scenes unfolded during a civic visit to HMS Astute as it was docked in Southampton, Hampshire, at around midday on Friday.

A Royal Navy serviceman was arrested on suspicion of murder and remains in custody.

Hampshire police are investigating the shootings in co-operation with Ministry of Defence (MoD) police and naval provosts.

Lieutenant Commander Ian Molyneux, a weapons engineer in charge of the vessel's missiles, was killed, while Lieutenant Commander Chris Hodge survived and is in a stable condition in hospital.

Southampton city council leader, Royston Smith, was visiting the submarine with other dignitaries while it was berthed at the Eastern Docks on a five-day visit to the city.

He described how he "wrestled" the gunman to the ground in the submarine's control room as he tried to stop him.

"Two shots were fired, straight after he entered the control room again and began shooting again," Smith told the BBC.

"I ran towards him, I pushed him against the wall, we wrestled to take the gun from him. He fired again, I wrestled again to get the weapon from him. I pushed him to another wall, I wrestled him to the ground and managed to take the weapon away from him then others came to help to restrain him."

He said a group of schoolchildren had left the submarine shortly before the attack.

The MoD said the shooting was not terrorist-related and there was no threat to the wider public.

The gunman was believed to have been on sentry duty and the shooting happened during a weapons changeover between shifts. It is understood a SA80 service rifle was used.

After the shooting, it is understood the gunman was handed over to MoD police who were there as part of the civic visit. He was then transferred to Hampshire police officers when they arrived minutes later.

Sources said the motive for the shooting was unclear but they played down the possibility of post-traumatic stress disorder being a factor, pointing out that the longest HMS Astute has spent at sea is 46 days.

The MoD refused to comment on claims that it took place after a row over the use of a toilet.

The defence secretary, Liam Fox, said: "I am greatly saddened to hear of this tragic incident and of the death of a Royal Navy serviceman.

"It is right and proper that a full police investigation is carried out and allowed to take its course.

"My thoughts and sympathies are with those who have been affected and their families."

Chief Superintendent David Thomas, of Hampshire police, said the major crime branch investigation would involve obtaining statements from all those on board at the time, believed to number around 30.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Smiling face of sailor pictured just 48 HOURS before he 'gunned down two of his officers, killing one' on nuclear sub HMS Astute

By Stephen Wright, Ian Drury and Chris Greenwood
Last updated at 7:35 PM on 9th April 2011

Police are today questioning Ryan Donovan who is believed to have shot two senior officers, killing one of them, on a nuclear submarine before his deadly gun rampage was stopped by a council leader.

Pictured less than 48 hours before the alleged incident in the control room of a nuclear submarine, he can be seen smiling with his ward mates, unaware of the violence that would follow two days later.

Gillian Molyneux, Lt Cdr Molyneux’s wife, said: 'Ian was utterly devoted to his family. Everything he did was for us. He was very proud to be an officer in the Royal Navy Submarine Service. He will live on in our four beautiful children.'

full story and photos at link below

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374850/HMS-Astute-shooting-Ryan-Donovan-pictured-smiling-48-hours-incident.html#ixzz1J43KSc8K

 

[old medic]

Submarine shooting: Ryan Donovan charged

Ryan Donovan faces murder and attempted murder charges after fatal shooting on Royal Navy nuclear sub
Ben Quinn
10 April 2011
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/10/submarine-shooting-ryan-donovan-charged

A Royal Navy serviceman has been charged with the murder of a colleague on board a nuclear submarine on Friday.

Able Seaman Ryan Samuel Donovan, 22, was charged on Sunday with the murder of Lieutenant Commander Ian Molyneux, 36, who was fatally shot on board HMS Astute as it was docked in Southampton on a goodwill visit.

Hampshire police said that Donovan was also charged with the attempted murder of Petty Officer Christopher Brown, 36, Chief Petty Officer David McCoy, 37, and Lieutenant Commander Christopher Hodge, 45, who remains in hospital after he was shot.

Donovan, of Hillside Road, Dartford, Kent, is in custody and will appear at Southampton Magistrates' Court on Monday.

Nick Hawkins, chief prosecutor for the Crown Prosecution Service in Wessex, said: "I have been working closely with Hampshire Constabulary and now have authorised them to charge Ryan Samuel Donovan with Ian Molyneux's murder and with the attempted murder of Christopher Brown, David McCoy, and Christopher Hodge.

"Having reviewed the evidence, I am satisfied that there is sufficient to charge him, and that it is in the public interest to do so.".....

 

[jollyjacktar]

Able Seaman Moondogg appears in court accused of shooting dead submarine officer and attempted murder of three other men

By Sam Greenhill, Emily Andrews and Ian Drury


An Able Seaman appeared in court today charged with the murder of an officer and the attempted murder of three other men in the HMS Astute submarine shooting.  Ryan Donovan, of Dartford, Kent, spoke only to confirm his name, age and address at the short hearing at Southampton Magistrates' Court.  The 22-year-old, who was wearing a black T-shirt and appeared to be unshaven, was remanded in custody to appear at Winchester Crown Court on Wednesday April 13.

Nick Hawkins, prosecuting, said that the case could have been handled internally by the armed forces but it had been agreed that the case would be held in the civilian courts. 

More details, photos and an explanation of the meaning of  "Moondogg" at link below.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375551/HMS-Astute-shooting-Ryan-Donovan-appears-court-accused-murder.html#ixzz1JEZJ0pdO

 

[OldSolduer]

One disturbing line:

"Had they checked Google, they would have noticed that Donovan featured on a website listing the ‘craziest name changes’ of 2009."

It sounds as if the Navy is to blame for this, not the guy who pulled the trigger.

My  :2c:

 

[PMedMoe]

One disturbing line:

"Had they checked Google, they would have noticed that Donovan featured on a website listing the ‘craziest name changes’ of 2009."

It sounds as if the Navy is to blame for this, not the guy who pulled the trigger.

My  :2c:

My query is WTF does the name change have to do with the murder charge?  Or are they trying to insinuate that the Navy did not do a proper background check on this guy?

 

[Journeyman]

"Had they checked Google

Well, if the Conservative party is supposedly accountable for checking the Crackbook pages of everyone who attends a political rally, there's certainly no reason the Royal Navy couldn't have tasked someone to continually monitor a website listing craziest annual name-changes.



Oh right, that's why I hold the mainstream media in such low regard.  :

 

[The Bread Guy]

My query is WTF does the name change have to do with the murder charge?  Or are they trying to insinuate that the Navy did not do a proper background check on this guy?

Here's the rest of the "funny name" bit from the article:

.... it was revealed a simple Google search would have** alerted the Royal Navy that the submariner held led a secret double life as a rapper named Reggie Moondogg.

Navy chiefs were today facing urgent questions over their recruitment and vetting policies.

Had they checked Google, they would have noticed that Donovan featured on a website listing the ‘craziest name changes’ of 2009 ....

When rappers are outlawed on subs, only outlaw subs will have rappers, I guess ....

** - Dramatic news speak for "we checked Google and found".

 

[PMedMoe]

Here's the rest of the "funny name" bit from the article:When rappers are outlawed on subs, only outlaw subs will have rappers, I guess ....

** - Dramatic news speak for "we checked Google and found".

Not a very "secret" double life if it was found on Google.  Seriously.......  :

Here's a story published in the Atlantic Wire regarding this case.

 

[OldSolduer]

The MSM and the general population have the "Tom Clancy" syndrome. Basically, it means they think the military and intelligence branches are all powerful and all knowing.


If they only knew the truth.....

 

[The Bread Guy]

From the "opposition for the sake of oppostion" files:

.... MPs have demanded to know how Donovan was vetted before being allowed to join the crew of the £1.2billion submarine.

Lib Dem MP and defence expert Mike Hancock said: ‘Whatever the outcome of these charges I am surprised that this man was on a nuclear submarine – calling himself Reggie Moondogg, joining the Navy, getting recruited to serve on a submarine and then being given a weapon to guard it.’

Patrick Mercer, chairman of the Commons sub-committee on counter-terrorism, added: ‘It seems unforgivable.  Should the fact that he changed his name to Reggie Moondogg not have given cause for concern?’ ....

Mr. LibDem:  Maybe he joined the Navy, THEN became a rapper?
Mr. Mercer:  Funny, the name tag on his most recent photos don't have "Moondogg" plastered across his chest, so did he "change his name," or adopt a stage name, as some performers do?
Also note what's at the bottom of the story:

.... Flaws in HMS Astute’s design which condemn sailors to cramped living conditions were revealed in a MoD report two years ago.

Poor facilities on the hi-tech sub forced sailors to suffer ‘quality-of-life issues’, according to the heavily-censored study for the Defence Board.

The report, carried out for senior officers, also raised concerns about the increasing stresses caused by a shortage of skilled submariners ....

I guess "Matelot w/Secret Rapper Life, Kills on Nuke Sub?" is a sexier headline/story arc than "Tight, tough conditions on sub may have caused stress". 

All that said, sincerest condolences to the family of the dead, hopes for a speedy recovery to the wounded, and a reminder that all in our system are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Old Sweat]

I can't speak for the RN's vetting of crewmen on nuclear missile submarines, but the forms I filled out for the human reliability program and nuclear clearances a very long time ago were not that demanding.  This was done at the same time that I upgraded from Level 2 to Level 3, as I recall. I also wasn't much older at the time than the seaman in custody is today.

Being a rapper - which is not illegal - makes a sexier story than living in Trafalgarish conditions on what is claimed to be a poorly-designed submarine. He hasn't been convicted of anything yet, so let's let the legal process work.

 

[jollyjacktar]

The red herring with his moniker whatever it was aside, I found it more interesting in bits with regard to his bearing a grudge against these two Officers. 

Lieutenant Commander Ian Molyneux, 36, the nuclear submarine’s weapons engineering officer and a married father of four, was shot dead. Lieutenant Commander Chris Hodge, 45, was shot in the abdomen, and was last night in a ‘serious but stable’ condition in hospital.

Both officers had been on a panel which had recently denied Donovan a place on a mission, it was reported, and there was speculation he may have felt unfairly treated.

Donovan has been charged with the murder of Lt-Cmdr Molyneux and the attempted murders of Lt-Cmdr Hodge, Petty Officer Christopher Brown, 36, and Chief Petty Officer David McCoy, 37.

And something about design flaws and living conditions aboard.  Not being a submariner I honestly don't have a feel for the habitation issues that would be present in a submarine.  Had been on the old "O" boats for a visit, it's not for me.  I can only hope that Astute must be better than the Victoria class as they must be somewhat larger vessels and newer. 

Flaws in HMS Astute’s design which condemn sailors to cramped living conditions were revealed in a MoD report two years ago.

Poor facilities on the hi-tech sub forced sailors to suffer ‘quality-of-life issues’, according to the heavily-censored study for the Defence Board.

The report, carried out for senior officers, also raised concerns about the increasing stresses caused by a shortage of skilled submariners.

So, perhaps not so much  a "nutter" (thus red herring)  but maybe more of a young guy losing his cool and acting on impulse with deadly results.  Sailors do on occasion snap.  Tragic for all concerned in this instance whatever the cause.

 

[medicineman]

If you read in the article, you'll also see that this clown may have counselled off an upcoming mission for whatever reason (extra-cirricular activities perhaps, couldn't work and play well with others?) and so went US Postal.  I'm pretty sure you'll find that MI5 was up his butt with a microscope when he was vetted and all and sundry knew/know of his rapper life. 

As for the cramped living quarters, three letters come to mind: D-U-H.  IT'S A F*&^ING SUBMARINE!!!  What would they expect, the Empress here in Vic??!!  Dolts O'Plenty.

MM

 

[The Bread Guy]

Sailors People do on occasion snap.  Tragic for all concerned in this instance whatever the cause.

Fixed the yellow bit, and agree 1000% with all of the above.

 

[jollyjacktar]

No need to fix.  I was speaking from a sailor's POV.  While we are of course people, people who are not sailors are not necessarily exposed to the same conditions that lead to a person losing the bubble.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Seen - just didn't want readers to think that ONLY sailors can crack.

 

[OldSolduer]

Something similar is bound to happen here. We cannot discount this, or wish it away.

In fact....it already has. People driving their SUVs into HQ buildings - that could have been deadly.

 

[medicineman]

There was the armed dude that took over the bridge of (I want to say) HMCS Saskatchewan (someone can correct me of course) in the 80's - pretty sure he didn't kill anyone, but he certainly got ashore as he requested...eventually.

MM