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The Sleep Superthread- Apnea/ Disorders/ etc.

medicineman

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peterpan said:
:rofl:  that is soon true. One guy I work with had trouble going to the bathroom for a spell and when he went to see the doc they wanted to check his heart and give him an ekg ...  and they grounded him?!?!  Needless to say he was p $$*#*....he wont go back any more.  Its like they are out to get us.

I'd hazard to guess you're only getting his half (that he chooses to tell you) of the story.  Medical people aren't out to ground you...if you're fit and safe to fly.  People forget that it's not just about you, but everyone else around you as well.  I'll just leave it at that.

MM
 

CombatDoc

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peterpan said:
I already looked and couldn't find this topic. Does any one know if  sleep apnea would screw up an air crew medical. getting the proper equiptment would give better sleep and reduce blood pressure, resulting in better preformance. Is there any other air crew who may have it and still fly.
Must you ask, when you already know the answer?

 

peterpan

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But I dont know .....I have been told  that commercial pilots and such carrying civil passengers are still allowed to fly with ot....but I wasn't sure the military's take on it...was only inquiring to see if anyone else in the aircrew position had it...and I am not saying flight surgeons are bad ppl.....but I know a lot of air crew that feel the same way....just to make things clear I did not write this to bash the med guys 8)    that is all
 
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Hello,

Due to my intolerance of CPAP and mandibular advancement device (mouth piece), I am seeking surgical orthodontic treatment [MMA- maxillomandibular advancement + orthodontics 3 years]  to potentially 'cure' my severe sleep apnea. I have sought guidance from and consulted all specialists (orthodontist, oral surgeon, periodontist, CF dentist) and recently signed on the line to seek funding for the aforementioned from Dental HQ. Any inputs on how often the board gets together to make official decisions during a given fiscal year on similar cases? Also, what are my chances if my AHI factor is 55+, 20 years remaining in contract and unit approval a go?

Thank you
 

OceanBonfire

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According to research, at 7+ hours of sleep, a soldier is 98% combat effective.

At 6 hours, that drops to 50%.

At 5 hours, the soldier’s down to 28% combat effectiveness.

4 hours or less, and the soldier is practically a liability at only 15% combat effectiveness.

Before the most recent research, the US Army said that 4 hours of sleep was considered "adequate".

 

Weinie

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According to research, at 7+ hours of sleep, a soldier is 98% combat effective.

At 6 hours, that drops to 50%.

At 5 hours, the soldier’s down to 28% combat effectiveness.

4 hours or less, and the soldier is practically a liability at only 15% combat effectiveness.

Before the most recent research, the US Army said that 4 hours of sleep was considered "adequate".

Having, in my earlier career, gone to work with 0 hours of sleep on “several” occasions, I would beg to differ. I fought, effectively, to stay awake each time.:p
 

daftandbarmy

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"Happiness consists in getting enough sleep. Just that, nothing more. All the wealthy, unhappy people you've ever met take sleeping pills; Mobile Infantrymen don't need them. Give a cap trooper a bunk and time to sack out in it, and he's as happy as a worm in an apple—asleep.” Heinlein




1651629754582.png
"
 

medicineman

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The British Army did a study back in the 80's with BAOR units where they were running them into the ground simulating a rapid Soviet push to see how people reacted with little sleep - some of the leaders were totally done in within 72 hours of no sleep - they had decision paralysis and were unable to deal with the slightest stresses. Forced rest of any kind is really important - even 20 minutes of REM can refresh someone's brain enough to function.

I well remember Pennant Week in Cornwallis - we were largely not sleeping for about 2-3 days ahead of the inspection. Night prior, I and a number of others had just played 3 hours of water polo and came back to clean the Hell out of the place. That morning, we had PT followed by weapons class until noon - lots of pushups were done due to us falling asleep. By noon, we were formed up in our hollow square and our Pl WO started to light us up like a Xmas tree about how horribly we'd allegedly done - read off a bunch of names and told them they were getting recoursed to Week 1, told them to fuck off and get their kit and handed us our "pennant" on a broom handle with a piece of hessian as the flag. I'd say at least 50% of the people were in tears within minutes due to being unable to process/address the abuse being heaped at us. The folks whose names were read off even started wandering up to get their gear. That was likely after between 36-48 hours of little or no sleep. I know I was so wrecked at that point my GAFF was literally ZERO - I was so tired I just went "Well Fuck, this is sucking", I couldn't really do anything else.

We actually got our pennant...even our MCpl's were starting to wonder such was the performance our WO put on.
 

Underway

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According to research, at 7+ hours of sleep, a soldier is 98% combat effective.

At 6 hours, that drops to 50%.

At 5 hours, the soldier’s down to 28% combat effectiveness.

4 hours or less, and the soldier is practically a liability at only 15% combat effectiveness.

Before the most recent research, the US Army said that 4 hours of sleep was considered "adequate".

Enter DRDC's sleep research for the Navy and different watch rotations. They have a pile of data.

On my OP REASURANCE we went to a modified watch rotation. Divide the day into 4-hour blocks. Then assign to each sailor 8 hours for sleep, and then an adjoining 4-hours where they were "available" but not on watch. Availability meant they could do whatever they liked (sleep more, gym, video games, reading etc...) but had to show up for evolutions (like a RAS). The Master Sailors were empowered to protect their sailors off time so they were not called in for random evolutions that could be done by the on-watch persons and helped to ensure that the watches were organized with enough people to ensure that routine evolutions didn't need the extra help. Basically, each sailor had 12 hours "off watch" and 8 hours "on watch" with a 4 hour break in the middle.

There were no routine pipes. No wakey wakey, no hands to supper etc... people knew what time it was and showed up to eat, work, on watch at the proper time because they are adults. Food was served at the same times but there was a midnight meal laid on of sandwiches/leftovers for overnight watches. This had an odd side effect of reducing the amount of food eaten on board as people grabbed lighter meals (particularly breakfast).

The dayworkers ran normal working hours but supervisors were empowered to set whatever hours, and staffing they saw fit. Like professional adults they were. And not surprisingly they set office hours that made sense for the new watch rotation.

For my day I naturally woke up around 730ish, went to the wardroom for ~8, grabbed toast/cereal, and made a tea. Chilled for 30min, and then went to work. I worked till about supper, and then went back around 7 and worked some more till about 10. Except on Thurs which was Movie Night or boardgame night.

Of course, this changed when we were in a higher readiness state, and switching between states provided a challenge but we figured it out.

I've never been so rested and productive at sea in my life, ever. It took a little getting used to but the focus on sleep, and rest really paid off I think.
 

Weinie

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The British Army did a study back in the 80's with BAOR units where they were running them into the ground simulating a rapid Soviet push to see how people reacted with little sleep - some of the leaders were totally done in within 72 hours of no sleep - they had decision paralysis and were unable to deal with the slightest stresses. Forced rest of any kind is really important - even 20 minutes of REM can refresh someone's brain enough to function.

I well remember Pennant Week in Cornwallis - we were largely not sleeping for about 2-3 days ahead of the inspection. Night prior, I and a number of others had just played 3 hours of water polo and came back to clean the Hell out of the place. That morning, we had PT followed by weapons class until noon - lots of pushups were done due to us falling asleep. By noon, we were formed up in our hollow square and our Pl WO started to light us up like a Xmas tree about how horribly we'd allegedly done - read off a bunch of names and told them they were getting recoursed to Week 1, told them to fuck off and get their kit and handed us our "pennant" on a broom handle with a piece of hessian as the flag. I'd say at least 50% of the people were in tears within minutes due to being unable to process/address the abuse being heaped at us. The folks whose names were read off even started wandering up to get their gear. That was likely after between 36-48 hours of little or no sleep. I know I was so wrecked at that point my GAFF was literally ZERO - I was so tired I just went "Well Fuck, this is sucking", I couldn't really do anything else.

We actually got our pennant...even our MCpl's were starting to wonder such was the performance our WO put on.
Yeah, the competition to be the worst(read most fuckin dickheadingest douchebag) WO in Cornwallis was fierce when I also was there. Look back on it now with dismay, but it was the Schtick at the time. Note: At that time, expectations from the CAF about treatment of personnel were “crickets.”
 

Blackadder1916

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Enter DRDC's sleep research for the Navy and different watch rotations. They have a pile of data.

Abstract

The objective of this task was to compare and analyze sleep model results versus field experimental data which were collected on sailors onboard a Royal Canadian Navy vessel in 2017. This study is a continuation of the analysis presented in previous reports [1], [2], and is based on a new set of experimental data that included sailor’s work and rest schedules (from Logs and Actigraphy) on 1-in-3 Watch Schedule. The default and optimized sleep model parameters from Reference [2] were used to predict the sleep schedule and compute the accuracy in the present report. In addition, the sailors’ cognitive performance was also modeled based on the experimental and predicted sleep. The sleep prediction model “Three-Process Model of Alertness” by Akersted’s group [3] was used for the sleep analysis. The Defence R&D Canada (DRDC) Fatigue Model (DFM) [4] was used in the cognitive performance analysis.
 

OldSolduer

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Sleep deprivation is a reality on real world ops. That is why on many courses sleep deprivation and the reliance on drills to get the job done is paramount - at least in the infantry. After 48 hours of little or no sleep troops rely on training.
 
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