Thoughts on decision by The Lorne Scots

[Small.Arms]

https://globalnews.ca/news/5223262/canadian-soldiers-unmuzzled-weapons-khalsa-day/amp/

Opinions; was this an embarrassment or a show of a “well-equipped CAF,” I’ve taken to twitter and read comments with very mixed responses; my own curiosity is what has taken me to ask.

Also my first post please inform me of any wrongdoing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They should be wearing their helmets.

 

[OldSolduer]

They should be wearing their helmets.

And not in this parade at all. Ever.

 

[ballz]

The comments on Twitter are amazing, armchair SMs everywhere. Former Prime Minister COS commenting on soldier discipline and how they look "sloppy," people complaining about how they aren't marching in step in fighting order. I love the chaos created when we do things half-pregnant, in this case the mixing of tactical dress / equipment with parades / ceremonies. I am just loving this.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sin in haste... repent at leisure.

Clearly not a great decision by someone, somewhere, and they won't be allowed to forget about it for awhile I'm sure.  :

 

[MilEME09]

Any one else notice a lot of bad decisions leavong egg on faces of the past year or so? Several reserve COs removed in ontario over the past couple years, and I know of other gaffs in this sort of league. Seems COs and below might not be getting the required advice to make proper decision in line with policy, not to mention the drill amd ceremonial manual.

 

[CBH99]

Our unit did community parades in this fashion quite often.  I'm surprised to see the backlash, as the community was generally extremely supportive & we heard cheers as we progressed along the parade route.

Back home there was typically about 3 parades a year in which our unit would provide 1 or 2 vehicles, and about 10 troops to walk the parade route.  Unloaded C7's and C9's, in full fighting order minus the helmets.  We did this for several years before I got out, and I don't think it would have changed shortly after.


While I completely disagree with the whole ethnic "Sikh soldiers marching on Sikh Day" or whatever (Sorry, not very PC anymore) -- I thought this kind of thing was fairly normal in smaller cities & generally garnered a positive reaction from the crowd.  (Throwing out candies & swag to kids on Family Day was always a great boost in the community.)

 

[Edward Campbell]

The big problem, and I assert that it is a HUGE problem, is twofold:

First, these Khalsa Day parades, which many in official India, believe promote Sikh separatism, extremism and even terrorism, lie at the root of Canada's current problems with India. It was Justin Trudeau's active participation in the 2017 parade in Toronto which led to part of the imbroglio in India in Feb 2018 ... the other part was his playing 'Mister Dressup.' The analogue, and I am NOT going overboard, is Charles DeGaulle's speech in Quebec in 1967 ~ Canada was, rightfully and officially furious and DeGaulle was, literally, expelled from Canada. That's how India sees Trudeau and the Sikhs ~ he is perceived to be supporting Sikh separatism for his own, domestic, partisan political ends. One doesn't need to believe that is the actual case in order to understand India's reactions ... it, annoying India, a rising great power, is an incredibly stupid policy on Canada's part; and

Second, there is a right way and wrong way to participate in community events and the CF 'leadership,' all the way up to and likely beyond BGen Paul, the Div Comd, did this 100% wrong. FDd no one pay a split second's worth of attention when the Foreign Affairs bureaucrats came to the Staff College to explain how foreign policy is conducted, at home and abroad? Or did some uniformed numbskull decide that an understanding of key strategic issues no longer matters to mere colonels?

There is a third issue: who in the name of all that's holy thinks that it's ever a good idea to use troops, in a quasi combat formation, in this community parade? It looks like the government and DND are saying 'we offer armed support' to the Khalistan movement.' That's just dumb, Dumb, DUMB.

The soldiers are not to blame, but a whole host of officers from about major to above brigadier general are, and they all ought need to be publicly dismissed, for cause ... the cause being that they are all irredeemably stupid.

My  :2c: and it has nothing at all to do with Canadian Sikhs, it is all about policy. The CF screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[CaptainCookieMonster]

Excuse my phrasing, but shoot it, shovel it and shut up. It happened, apologize and move on. Some Jr officer, or one new to his role, goofed. I will never get why these guys were carrying their rifles like they were out on a hunting trip, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lumber]

Excuse my phrasing, but shoot it, shovel it and shut up. It happened, apologize and move on. Some Jr officer, or one new to his role, goofed. I will never get why these guys were carrying their rifles like they were out on a hunting trip, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you not read the article? Permission to do this came from much higher than a Jr. Officer.

 

[CaptainCookieMonster]

I read the article on CBC. Thank you for your clarification.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pusser]

I don't think that the problem is that they were in the parade or even that they were armed.  However, it was a PARADE; therefore, they should have been in a parade order of dress, with their weapons at the shoulder arms and marching in a parade formation.  I don't understand this argument of gaggling* about in fighting order in order to show that we are a well-equipped fighting force.  I don't understand why many people today seem to think this is more appropriate than dress uniforms with medals and qualification badges.  Soldiers are rightfully proud of their achievements and should be allowed to publicly display them from time to time.  This is better done with a dress uniform which tells the soldier's story.  Combat clothing only shows that they've been issued combat clothing.

Should an Air Force unit parade in work dress with folks carrying tool boxes?  How about a bunch of sailors in NCDs dragging hawsers?

*Yes, "gaggling."  It looks undisciplined and you can't even argue that they were in a "patrol" formation.  A patrol formation is still a disciplined formation and all of these soldiers are too close together to be an effective patrol - one grenade and they're done.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Reserves have a unique definition of full fighting order.

 

[Kirkhill]

Are the Lorne's an entirely Sikh unit these days?  Or was this parade only for Sikhs?

And I'm with Pusser on this one.  Gaggling.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Reserves have a unique definition of full fighting order.

Yup.... no gloves, BEW's, Gas mask, or flak/body armour ... ;D

 

[OldSolduer]

I agree with Pusser. I’ll post some thoughts and here they are. Its not so much the poor parade preps/orders and the "gaggling" as Pusser put it. That in itself is enough to make most anyone's head spin.
It is the appearance that the CAF has picked a side. And that ain't good folks. The CAF is supposed to be apolitical. This may amount to nothing but one never knows.

 

[MilEME09]

Yup.... no gloves, BEW's, Gas mask, or flak/body armour ... ;D

Flak vests arent issued to PRes , where are their helmets? Or bush caps?

 

[OldSolduer]

The big problem, and I assert that it is a HUGE problem, is twofold:

First, these Khalsa Day parades, which many in official India, believe promote Sikh separatism, extremism and even terrorism, lie at the root of Canada's current problems with India. It was Justin Trudeau's active participation in the 2017 parade in Toronto which led to part of the imbroglio in India in Feb 2018 ... the other part was his playing 'Mister Dressup.' The analogue, and I am NOT going overboard, is Charles DeGaulle's speech in Quebec in 1967 ~ Canada was, rightfully and officially furious and DeGaulle was, literally, expelled from Canada. That's how India sees Trudeau and the Sikhs ~ he is perceived to be supporting Sikh separatism for his own, domestic, partisan political ends. One doesn't need to believe that is the actual case in order to understand India's reactions ... it, annoying India, a rising great power, is an incredibly stupid policy on Canada's part; and

Second, there is a right way and wrong way to participate in community events and the CF 'leadership,' all the way up to and likely beyond BGen Paul, the Div Comd, did this 100% wrong. FDd no one pay a split second's worth of attention when the Foreign Affairs bureaucrats came to the Staff College to explain how foreign policy is conducted, at home and abroad? Or did some uniformed numbskull decide that an understanding of key strategic issues no longer matters to mere colonels?

There is a third issue: who in the name of all that's holy thinks that it's ever a good idea to use troops, in a quasi combat formation, in this community parade? It looks like the government and DND are saying 'we offer armed support' to the Khalistan movement.' That's just dumb, Dumb, DUMB.

The soldiers are not to blame, but a whole host of officers from about major to above brigadier general are, and they all ought need to be publicly dismissed, for cause ... the cause being that they are all irredeemably stupid.

My  :2c: and it has nothing at all to do with Canadian Sikhs, it is all about policy. The CF screwed the pooch on this one.

Thank you sir. Again you have summed up what most of us probably are thinking. Bravo Zulu.

 

[Remius]

Are the Lorne's an entirely Sikh unit these days?  Or was this parade only for Sikhs?

And I'm with Pusser on this one.  Gaggling.

looks like a composite group of Sikhs from several units.  Different cap badges and turban colours. 


Regardless, the optics and execution looks bad.

 

[Remius]

Did a bit of wiki searching (whatever) and found this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalsa#Contemporary_status

Each year the Khalsa display their military skills around the world at a festival called Hola Mohalla. During Hola Mohalla military exercises are performed alongside mock battles followed by kirtan and valour poetry competitions. The Khalsa also lead the Sikhs in the annual Vaisakhi parade

So maybe they were invited to participate and the local commander was briefed on the religious aspect and that weapons were appropriate and he went off that without properly researching or seeking higher guidance? 

Who knows but someone is in trouble.