Trading Spouses

[Trinity]

. so as a Christian shes horribly wrong.

Well.. no.. She's not horribly wrong.. she just has a different view than you.
Christianity lets god decide who is right or wrong and alleviates us from having
to make such judgments (as tough and annoying as it may to refrain from commenting,
especially in instances as these!)

Anyways...

The real point I wanted to make was in response to Cpl Thompson.

I'd like to take "Its the individual, not the religion" statement and expand on it in order
to help others understand/see something within themselves a bit clearer.

Don't confuse Religiosity with Spirituality

We are all spiritual.  We are not all religious.

Spirituality consists of our relationship with ourselves, others and "the other", some
who call "the other" God, others Yahweh, Lord, Jehovah, etc...

Religion is an organization with a set of values and beliefs that people believe and adhere to.

I choose to express my spirituality THROUGH religion, others don't.  That is perfectly acceptable.


Now..  the next para is my belief (the above is taken from training)

We are driven by our spirituality, to fill it as it hungers.  We can fill it with good things or
bad things, although i doubt bad things (alcohol addiction, drugs) really work to fill the
spirit as much as it dulls the pain of a spirituality in need. 

Our spirituality hungers for knowledge, understanding, companionship, love, acknowledgment,
shared values, hope, love.. etc......  How we act out our spirituality on others really shows
the true inner person.  Thus, one could be "religious" but their spirituality may be quite different
thus their actions in life are different than the expected norms of their outward  "expressed religious beliefs"
as they are in fact controlled by their inward spirituality.


Its 8:59 am.  I'm 24 hours in a 72 hour on call shift.  Its too late/early/whatever.... to be discussing
theology... so I reserve the right to come back and correct any theological mistakes I have made.

Respond in kind if you wish.  Flames are not appreciated.  Remember, I'm speaking from my MOC/Trade
and training here and not out of my arse, so my "opinion" is backed up by a Master Degree.

Am i getting defensive already??!?!  Hope this helps enlighten people.  >

 

[Thompson_JM]

...I choose to express my spirituality THROUGH religion, others don't.  That is perfectly acceptable...

this is pretty much the real bone of contention between the whole religious vs spiritual people debate.

I grew up for the first 20 or so years of my life as a roman catholic. I still am I supose. just non practicing.  My personal philosophy is live and let live, and that if someone is interested in learning more about a particular religion they will seek it. I get annoyed and somewhat offended when I have "born-agains" constantly waving the bible in my face and screaming about damnation and hell if i dont accept their jesus... though last i checked, the same jesus the catholics belive in, is the same one that the anglicans, prodistants, united, etc... also belive in... same guy right?

I dunno... I guess my Live and Let Live Attitude seems to rub them the wrong way. thats really where my frustration comes from.

I personally think that a relationship with God should be a personal one, that you should not have to justify to other people around you. and that you should simply accept people for who they are. if they dont want to change, you shouldnt try to force it upon them.

and I dont want it to sound like Im refering to you Trinity. Because I am definatly not. From your posts on here you strike me as being pretty accepting and open-minded, and also comfortable enough in your personal belifes to not freak out if one were to challenge them (which is something i do encounter in some of the Born-agains that I know.)

I dunno, I could be out in left field here, but I belive that people have free will, and if they choose to follow a certain path, then so be it. if they choose to follow a different yet similar path, then who am I to criticize them?

Cheers
  - Josh

 

[Trinity]

I dunno, I could be out in left field here, but I belive that people have free will, and if they choose to follow a certain path, then so be it. if they choose to follow a different yet similar path, then who am I to criticize them?

Amen Brother....  guess I'm in left field with ya!

 

[Nemo888]

I liked that episode. She has a whole gang of friends with the same beliefs who she hangs out with too. On trading spouses they always have a great mom and a bag of dirt mom. Makes for good TV. Especially when the kids don't miss the bag of dirt mom and get a taste of what a good mom can be like. Then the bad mom returns home and freaks out like the church lady.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just so you kiddies know, I'm a minister and I have my own church. 
Feel free to join!

I'll show that woman the dark side, the dark side of purgatory!

 

[Trinity]

LOL

Your ordination certificate has the exact time down to the second???
hrm...  internet church.

Didn't need your Masters of Divinity for that certification... did you  ;D

 

[JBP]

You see, people like that woman not only scare me, they TERRIFY me... I'm an athiest, through and through 100%. I have no believe in any "God" or "Higher power" at all. I believe when you die... Your dead. That's it, your dead! No magic, no souls, nothing. D-E-A-D.

Being an athiest does NOT mean I am against religion, it only means I don't believe in any of it myself. Some people who claim to be athiests don't really even actually know what being an athiest means, they are those stupid co-workers or people you overhear speaking to someone else about how they hate religion and think it's stupid and that all the bible-thumpers are just sheep etc....

A true athiest has nothing to do with hating religion, it's just a personal choice.

People like this woman remind me of a guy who tried to start a fist-fight with me at work because he was saying that me denying the existence of god gave god power and was my way of expressing my believe, that it was not acceptable that I didn't believe in god, impossible even and by denying it I was acknowledging it etc... He drove himself into such a frenzy he physically started pushing me around (I didn't have a good reaction to that...  > ), then he was fired.... He was one of those extremist "Born-Again Christians" who had a bad addiction problem before hand etc... We were talkative pals at work and chit-chatted a lot until he found out I was an athiest, then he flipped out!!!

I think a true believer in any religion would accept someone else's views and appreciate them or accept them for who they are, since religion preaches of acceptance and peace.

Then again, I think the idea of any god who will punish you for not believing in them or doing what they decree is rediculous as well...

Do your own thing, whatever feels right to you. If you want to grab a bible and sit down and pick holes in it, do that, if you want to simply accept that you believe in god, do that... Who cares what anyone else thinks.... 

Life isn't worth living if you can't have fun.

 

[Trinity]

Joe...

Religion provides hope for many people.  Hope can be good in most cases
but there are those who .... use it like a drug?  It can be dangerous if not
taken in context. Thus, religion could be seen as an addiction for some who
need it(hope) to fill in the huge whole in their spirituality which is lacking.

Thus, to say something that is so different or against what they are holding
on to, their hope, ..... well.. I think we've seen what happens in that video.

Joe.  I appreciate your post on atheists.  I learned a lot.

 

[Jarnhamar]

With regards to the woman in the video, obviously she was picked FOR her shock factor. Your going to find nutbars like that everywhere, religious or not.

Religion provides hope for many people.  Hope can be good in most cases
but there are those who .... use it like a drug?  It can be dangerous if not
taken in context. Thus, religion could be seen as an addiction for some who
need it(hope) to fill in the huge whole in their spirituality which is lacking.

Exactly.
Taken in moderation it can be a great and bennifical thing. Taken to the extreme and you see the woman in the video or even more extreme, what's going on in the middle east (and around the world to be honest)

Religion can be a great escape from reality and people over due it.
It's hard for us non religious types to wrap our logical minds around the concept.  I was speaking with a friend and she was telling me how the only way to get into heaven was to believe in God.  What about other religions? Basically SOL. You need to believe in *her* god (for lack of a better word) to get in.  I could go into more detail but there is no need.  I find the idea that my religion is better (right) than yours completly silly.

The exception to the rule in my case is religion in the military and padre's. While I'm not religious I'll go out of my way to attend a mass(even if it means missing a chance to sleep in).  I like the atsmosphere.
It's like military padre's care less about who wrote the message and more about what the message actually is.  Be good to one another, forgive people who wronged you, find peace in yourself, find something you believe in and run with it etc.. 
What you choose to believe isn't as important as what you do with that belief.
Just like a soldier. Who we are what colour our skin is and our race isn't as important as the mission we're doing.


And yes Trinity, internet church. Can you think of a better way to reach so many people?
2% of all donationswill be sent to army.ca
apply now!

 

[Trinity]

Religion can be a great escape from reality and people over due it.

Um. Religion is not an escape from reality. I don't remember saying that.
It is set of uniform beliefs in which people choose to express their spirituality.
Yes, some people (such as this lady) has gone overboard and may not live in
the same sane world as you or I, I think I can safely say for the vast majority
of religion(s), we live in reality. 

It's hard for us non religious types to wrap our logical minds around the concept.

What.. you're an ordained minister (internet!!!  ;D) and your non religious....!!?? 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Um. Religion is not an escape from reality. I don't remember saying that.

No of course, thats my opinion.  The escape from reality is more with regards to cults and religious fanatics. People who will sell everything they own and move to a farm live with the leader. That kinda stuff.
Religion isn't alone in it's ability to be an escape either.  Video games, internet, drugs, alcohol, airsoft, starwars,  you name it.
Religion is just one of if not thee most dangerous one.

What.. you're an ordained minister (internet!!!  ) and your non religious....!!??

Uhh, I'm not religious no..... Religion gets in the way of my relationship with God

 

[orange.paint]

wow......I see twinkies and potato chips are not evil.

...another reason my son's not getting baptised.

 

[Thompson_JM]

...Religion gets in the way of my relationship with God...

Thats Kind of how I feel....

Along with the Believe in my religion or go to hell kind of mentality I see amongst the born agains...

I attended a meeting with a friend of mine. he had been wanting me to go to it for some time, so I agreed, since hey, open my mind to new opportunities... the leader of the group at one point started to cut down and belittle various other religions (Hindu, Islam, Buddhist, basically everything that is non-Christian) and they also attempted to describe what a non-believer, or non Christian looks like. he also made comparisons to this being a holy war, and that they were soldiers fighting for the righteous cause... etc.. etc..  he also asked me if I wished to be saved, and to accept Jesus into my life. (keep in mind I was raised Roman Catholic and spent 13 years in the catholic education system where i basically had a religion class every day for 13 years.... and I HAD stated to him that i was catholic just not the type that goes to church every sunday...)

People wonder why I'm not thrilled with Born agains... well, that night it felt more like they were trying to sell me a used car then to get me to convert.... it was the same approach... not outwardly pushy... but they new how to talk to you to almost guilt you into it... "well you don't have to join, but hey, if you want to go to heaven...... well..."

I'm comfortable with who I am, where I am, and my relationship with God. I live my life in a Just and Moral way which follows the Judeo-Christian Beliefs that Canada was founded on. I don't need to have someone pushing me to join their religion just because THEY had a life altering experience with it....

Remember, its a Personal relationship with god. just because YOU are happy with your religion, doesn't mean it should be for everyone....

Whatever Happened to Tolerance Peace Love and Understanding....

Religion provides hope for many people.  Hope can be good in most cases
but there are those who .... use it like a drug?  It can be dangerous if not
taken in context. Thus, religion could be seen as an addiction for some who
need it(hope) to fill in the huge whole in their spirituality which is lacking.

Thus, to say something that is so different or against what they are holding
on to, their hope, ..... well.. I think we've seen what happens in that video.

I would say that Trinity has got it bang on here... 

A lot of the Born agains are still new to their faith, still understanding it, and feel a great need to Defend it (in Joes case almost Violently...) I have found that the longer you practice a religion, you become more comfortable with it, and have a lesser need to justify it to everyone, in the same way the brand new born agains do.

A new born again when questioned about his faith will go on for hours about how its the right way, and all that...

whereas Ive found someone who has been practicing for a long time, will just say, "well thats how I feel and those are my beliefs.. If you don't agree with them, then that is your beliefs. i suggest we agree to disagree and not sit here trying to prove eachother wrong for the next hour."

but I digress.... this debate has raged on for thousands of years and probably wont stop anytime soon...

Like I said though, Just Live and Let Live...

Cheers 

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I guess it's true, you get fanatics in anything. But whereas I don't judge all Muslims by a handful of people using it to commit atrocities, I hope people don't judge me or other Christians by these nutbars.

 

[monika]

You see, people like that woman not only scare me, they TERRIFY me... I'm an athiest

Does the CF actually allow that as a "religion" on dogtags? Sorry if it's a stupid question but I've seen RC and CE on them but never Atheist.

 

[Trinity]

yup

UCC - united church
ACC - anglican church
RC - roman catholic
pyb  ?? Presbyterian (guessing)
Bap- baptist (guessing)
Jew - Judaism

oh 

NRE  - No Religion Expressed

 

[monika]

Thanks. I'm quite impressed by that piece of useless trivia. God(insert preferred deity or lack thereof) only knows if I'll get a chance to use it.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

yup

UCC - united church
ACC - anglican church
RC - roman catholic
pyb  ?? Presbyterian (guessing)
Bap- baptist (guessing)
Jew - Judaism

oh 

NRE  - No Religion Expressed

and

MUS - Muslim

A friend of ours had requested NRE on his tags, and when he got them during Basic they said MUS...it has since been rectified, but the big joke was that he was Muslim for about a week, but since his prayer mats were causing heck during inspections he gave it up... ;D

 

[Haggis]

Just so you kiddies know, I'm a minister and I have my own church. 

Hey Ghost, I never saw this in your MPRR.  Boy have I got a new job for you! ;D

 

[JBP]

Does the CF actually allow that as a "religion" on dogtags? Sorry if it's a stupid question but I've seen RC and CE on them but never Atheist.

And also to clarify, since Athiesm isn't a religion, it wouldn't be classified on there.. Just NRE. Remember, to be an athiest means you believe in no religion, at all, and no higher power of any kind.