Veteran groups seek to influence the 2015 vote

[Jarnhamar]

I'm placing this in Military Affairs opposed to politics because of the strong military connection.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of all these veteran groups speaking on behalf of all veterans. Specifically as of late, the 'Anyone But Harper Veterans'.

Lots of us have different definitions for what a veteran is. WW1&2 Vets, Bosnia & Afghanistan Vets, retired members.
The definition of a veteran is basically anyone who's served in the military. You could serve a week and get kicked out, you're a veteran. You're not special.

It really irks me how these guys, specifically the Anyone But Harper Vets, are suggesting they're speaking on behalf of all vets. They're not. Their whole platform reeks of using their "veteran card" to sway votes.  Canadian Soldiers are the 4th or 5th most trusted profession in Canada. We have an extremely good rapport with Canadians. These guys are trying to use that trust and faith, and the ol veteran card, to sway votes. Sadly it's working for some.  Social Media is full of Canadians chiming in to support them to the song of "help our military, help our soldiers".
It looks to me like most of the ABC vets are retired members. They sound more like pissed off teenagers trying to strike out against and punish Harper rather than caring about our present Military.  Voting for the Bloc will make our army stronger? Sure it will.

Worst of all are the POS's planning this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/17/veterans-launch-anyone-but-conservatives-campaign-during-harper-stop_n_8001188.html

Veterans wearing their uniforms will be stationed near polls on election day in an effort to dissuade voters from supporting Harper

Pathetic.
Voters shouldn't be intimidated nor should someone be sitting by the polls trying to coheres voters.

 

[McG]

What does it mean when it says "wearing their uniforms"?
I should hope this is not retired guys in thier pre-retirement military uniform.

Is political messaging (either protesting or campaigning) allowed at the polling stations on election day?

 

[George Wallace]

Good post Jarnhamar.  The backlash has begun, and Veterans are becoming divided.  There are two sites I have seen today:

https://www.facebook.com/veteransagainstABC

https://www.facebook.com/vetsfortheCPC?notif_t=fbpage_fan_invite


Divided we fall.

 

[Tibbson]

Who I vote for is really relevant only to me and it's not something I normally discuss openly however which ever way I may choose to vote I certainly object to those who try to speak for me one way or the other.

 

[MJP]

I dislike the entire notion that one group can speak as a whole for all veterans especially when it comes to politics.  The fact they sound like clowns and look like North Korean Generals doesn't help.

Good post Jarnhamar.  The backlash has begun, and Veterans are becoming divided.  There are two sites I have seen today:

https://www.facebook.com/veteransagainstABC

https://www.facebook.com/vetsfortheCPC?notif_t=fbpage_fan_invite


Divided we fall.

I was on the veterans against ABC FB today.  Same sort of crap you see all over the net.  Their top banner says "we believe in bringing our veteran community together, not dividing us".  What do they have posted but a bunch of photos making fun of veterans belonging to other groups. 

 

[McG]

So, they are he other side of the same coin.

I would rather not see veteran's groups taking sides.  If they want to take a position on policy related to veterans, then I suppose they can argue the merits of that position.  Attacking or supporting specific politicians or parties can be left to individuals or the parties themselves.

 

[George Wallace]

Who I vote for is really relevant only to me and it's not something I normally discuss openly however which ever way I may choose to vote I certainly object to those who try to speak for me one way or the other.

As it should be.  I find it offensive that organizations and unions have become so politically vocal in their attempts to influence which way people vote.  The Ontario Election was really a shyte show in my opinion, with all the partisan politics being played out by the Civil Servants, the OPP, Teachers and other such organizations.  I don't agree with that type of tactics.  These Veterans groups are no different.  Leave the 'politicking' to the political Parties.  Leave the voting to the individuals.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thank you George.

I dislike the entire notion that one group can speak as a whole for all veterans especially when it comes to politics.  The fact they sound like clowns and look like North Korean Generals doesn't help.

I was on the veterans against ABC FB today.  Same sort of crap you see all over the net.  Their top banner says "we believe in bringing our veteran community together, not dividing us".  What do they have posted but a bunch of photos making fun of veterans belonging to other groups.

These guys are using honourable service as a political-card and for me they're ont he same level as soldiers sleezing around for free beer on rememberence day or free coffee at tim hortons.
Just looked at that other site and I agree, so far it seems just to be pictures ridiculing the other. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Is political messaging (either protesting or campaigning) allowed at the polling stations on election day?

I would think that's highly illegal as well, I've never seen a candidate sign within a block of a polling station...

 

[Teager]

I read an article about these guys a week or so ago. They are still calling for pension instead of a lump sum. Sorry but lump sum is here to stay no matter what party is in charge. They did not seem to be up to date on veterans issues and where things are at now. Are there still issues? Yes, but these guys don't speak for me either.

Hopefully Canadians will form there own opinions without the influence of all these groups who all have there own agendas.

 

[Pusser]

Voters shouldn't be intimidated nor should someone be sitting by the polls trying to coheres voters.

Which is why it's illegal to campaign within a certain distance of polling stations. 

These guys could also run afoul of the National Defence Act if the uniforms they intend to wear are their CF uniforms:

  1)  if they're serving, they would be taking part in a political act, which is prohibited; or

  2)  if they're retired, they require written permission to wear a uniform (something they are unlikely to receive in this circumstance).

 

[Jed]

Any group that advocates for Veteran's rights (privileges?) must be apolitical to maintain the public's respect for the Veteran.

One of the key tenants in AA (besides anonymity) is that you do not advertise your politics or affiliate with other organizations such that the main purpose of why people are a part of that organization do not lose sight of their goal of sobriety.

Veterans certainly do not need or want any of these destructive and divisive groups attempting to speak on behalf of all veterans.

the ABC Veteran group are a bunch of clowns, in my opinion, and I am ashamed to stand beside them.

 

[SteadyPolaris]

Having been robocalled last election and sent to the wrong polling station I may disagree with the ban on polling station protests. I reported it to both the police and Elections Canada. As did people in 280 ridings and most especially roughly 100 close ridings where it was widespread. This was the most massive election fraud in Canadian history.

 

[Remius]

Having been robocalled last election and sent to the wrong polling station I may disagree with the ban on polling station protests. I reported it to both the police and Elections Canada. As did people in 280 ridings and most especially roughly 100 close ridings where it was widespread. This was the most massive election fraud in Canadian history.

That's a completely different issue than what is being discussed here.

 

[SteadyPolaris]

That's a completely different issue than what is being discussed here.

Not to me. There was widespread cheating that I saw personally. It was never even investigated. It was covered up. Since people cannot get justice through the courts they should protest.

I always thought my party right or wrong was a Liberal thing. Cheating is not a Conservative value. White washing this was a huge mistake. Many in our local riding assoc have quit over it.

 

[Remius]

Not to me. There was widespread cheating that I saw personally. It was never even investigated. It was covered up. Since people cannot get justice through the courts they should protest.

I always thought my party right or wrong was a Liberal thing. Cheating is not a Conservative value. White washing this was a huge mistake. Many in our local riding assoc have quit over it.

Again, that issue is not what the OP or the others contributing are discussing.  Go back, read.  Go back again if necessary.  This is about the appropriateness of veterans and possibly serving members acting in a way that may be unbecoming and possibly illegal.

Robocalls, and electoral fraud or whatever is something else.  I'm pretty sure we have another thread for that.

 

[Occam]

(Putting on my Nomex coveralls here)

I'm personally in favour of the ABC campaign.

I see people quite often come out with this "veteran groups speaking on behalf of all veterans" claim.  When you challenge them on it, and ask them to cite an instance where any of these types of groups have claimed to speak on behalf of all veterans, you always get silence in response.  Nobody is speaking on behalf of all veterans, including the Royal Canadian Legion - although they may be the biggest offenders when it comes to claiming they and they alone represent veterans.

I'm also quite certain that the author of the HuffPost article took some literary license when stating that veterans would be showing up in their uniforms.  Vets know the rules and their "uniform" is a beret and medals with varying types of outfits, such as blazers, motorcycle vests, etc.

What I'm finding is that the people who have a problem with the ABC-Veterans campaign are of the "C" persuasion.  Not all, but most.  Looking at the offshoot groups that were quoted earlier opposing the ABC campaign, I see quite a few familiar faces that I've encountered in other contexts, and are going to vote "C" even if you had a gun to their head.

The ABC - Veterans campaign is not telling anyone how to vote.  They're making it perfectly clear what you're going to get if nothing changes.

As for unions telling their members how to vote, I call BS.  The following is the last statement my own union made on the subject (in regard to the passing of C-59, and the included provisions to unilaterally impose changes to the sick leave system):  "There is little more to say at this stage.  I only hope all members have long enough memories to remember this day when the time comes to vote in the next federal election".  Now I'm a member of a small union, but even the big guys know better than to tell anyone how to vote.  Most union members are able to perform target identification quite well without any assistance.

 

[George Wallace]

The ABC - Veterans campaign is not telling anyone how to vote. 

If "Anyone But Conservative" is not telling anyone how to vote, then I failed English in school.

 

[Occam]

If "Anyone But Conservative" is not telling anyone how to vote, then I failed English in school.

You can vote Lib.
You can vote NDP.
You can vote Green.
You can vote Independent.
You can vote Rhinoceros.
You can vote Conservative...and here's what you're going to get...etc.

How is that telling someone where exactly to put the X on their ballot?

 

[Jed]

You can vote Lib.
You can vote NDP.
You can vote Green.
You can vote Independent.
You can vote Rhinoceros.
You can vote Conservative...and here's what you're going to get...etc.

How is that telling someone where exactly to put the X on their ballot?

You are telling them DO NOT VOTE CONSERVATIVE. Kind of comes off like an order or at the very least, firm direction.