2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[OldSolduer]

Decorum has been lacking in the HoC for a while. But if the term 'wacko' is now the threshold I expect to see lots of people ejected all the time.

No kidding. It is worse than toddler day care.

 

[Remius]

Decorum has been lacking in the HoC for a while. But if the term 'wacko' is now the threshold I expect to see lots of people ejected all the time.

Well it was more about defying the speaker than anything else.

 

[Good2Golf]

Well it was more about defying the speaker than anything else.

True. Although the Speaker didn’t have an issue with the PM implying that Poilievre was deliberately courting white supremists and explicitly calling him ‘spineless.’ Neither was in the right, but the fact that Trudeau can dance around saying anything to address his government’s lack of support of a provincial government in an issue that in BC alone has killed over 14,000 people should be the real issue if the day. Poilievre could have withdrawn wacko and used the word pathetic, and it seems Ferguson would have still expelled him. I’d wager Poilievre gets more mileage from this than Trudeau does with his narcissistic DARVO method.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well it was more about defying the speaker than anything else.

I suspect ones political lean will cloud every ones judgement on this.

To me this was a speaker of the house allowing one tone of speak for his political party and not for another. Another showing of a tarnished speaker of the house.

True. Although the Speaker didn’t have an issue with the PM implying that Poilievre was deliberately courting white supremists and explicitly calling him ‘spineless.’ Neither was in the right, but the fact that Trudeau can dance around saying anything to address his government’s lack of support of a provincial government in an issue that in BC alone has killed over 14,000 people should be the real issue if the day. Poilievre could have withdrawn wacko and used the word pathetic, and it seems Ferguson would have still expelled him. I’d wager Poilievre gets more mileage from this than Trudeau does with his narcissistic DARVO method.

I think you're right.

 

[Navy_Pete]

It really pisses me off generally that we spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on running Parliament and they can't even conduct themselves to the level of civil behaviour you expect in primary school. How many of us would be fired/charged or otherwise punished for behaving like this at work?

 

[Halifax Tar]

It really pisses me off generally that we spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on running Parliament and they can't even conduct themselves to the level of civil behaviour you expect in primary school. How many of us would be fired/charged or otherwise punished for behaving like this at work?

You're in the Navy bud. You heard and said a lot worse than calling someone 'wacko'.

When I first joined is was pretty common for problems to get solved in after rope stores.

The HoC is just a reflection of our society. Polarized and bubbling with angst.

 

[CountDC]

True. Although the Speaker didn’t have an issue with the PM implying that Poilievre was deliberately courting white supremists and explicitly calling him ‘spineless.’ Neither was in the right, but the fact that Trudeau can dance around saying anything to address his government’s lack of support of a provincial government in an issue that in BC alone has killed over 14,000 people should be the real issue if the day. Poilievre could have withdrawn wacko and used the word pathetic, and it seems Ferguson would have still expelled him. I’d wager Poilievre gets more mileage from this than Trudeau does with his narcissistic DARVO method.

From the clip I saw he did exactly that several times - withdrew the wacko and replaced it with another term. The speaker wouldn't except it and expelled him. This did not play well for the Liberals as it started with Trudeau making his comments with no repercussion. In the clip I watched even the conservative on the news panel was unable to support the speaker as much as he tried to wash it down and support Trudeau. In the end he admitted the speaker was wrong.

 

[mariomike]

How many of us would be fired/charged or otherwise punished for behaving like this at work?

Depends on the employer. YMMV

Lot of fishing boat talk in the stations. Occasional fist fight too. Never reported.

But, disrespect a customer?

We got the 30-second lecture on Day 1.

"You come to us from a society with many prejudices. We won't try to change your beliefs. But, if you treat anyone with disrespect, we will change your employment."

That meant a temporary or permanent transfer to someplace customers would not see or hear you. Like a sewage treatment plant.

 

[Blackadder1916]

From the clip I saw he did exactly that several times - withdrew the wacko and replaced it with another term. The speaker wouldn't except it and expelled him. This did not play well for the Liberals as it started with Trudeau making his comments with no repercussion. In the clip I watched even the conservative on the news panel was unable to support the speaker as much as he tried to wash it down and support Trudeau. In the end he admitted the speaker was wrong.

If one was to view the exchanges between the two children Leader of the Opposition and the Prime Minister, one would notice that the Speaker admonished the PM for the "spineless" comment and requested that he withdraw it and reframe his reply to the question. The PM did so.

However, the later "wacko" comment was not the first time on the day that the Leader of the Opposition made a personal attack on the character of the PM. Beginning at 3:04 in the clip Mr. Poilievre referred to Mr. Trudeau as a "racist". The Speaker at that time admonished the Opposition Leader and requested he withdraw the comment and rephrase. In the manner of the House, it could be construed (with a wink and a nod) that Mr. Poilievre's continuation complied with that request.

Was yesterday's question period a "shit show"? Absolutely. Was it Mr. Fergus' finest hour? Absolutely not. Mr. Fergus will probably go down in history as one of the poorest Speakers of the House. He stumbled trying to maintain control; he appeared weak and inarticulate (the opposite of what should be the primary characteristics of the Speaker). My assumption is that his previous screw-ups have made him gun-shy, but I don't ascribe partisanship to his actions yesterday. The Leader of the Opposition's continued attempts to directly disparage the PM's personal character and his refusal to accept the authority of the chair probably left the Speaker with no option but to name him and request his withdrawal from the floor of the House.

 

[CountDC]

If one was to view the exchanges between the two children Leader of the Opposition and the Prime Minister, one would notice that the Speaker admonished the PM for the "spineless" comment and requested that he withdraw it and reframe his reply to the question. The PM did so.

Ok, that wasn't shown or mentioned in the news clip I saw. So this means both members did the same thing - used a term, was requested to withdraw it, did that and..... I am not going to argue if the new term was any more suitable but as PP did what was requested the speaker should have changed tack. Instead of continuing to ask him to withdraw the comment he did withdraw he should have admonished for the new term and asked him to withdraw that one if he felt it was not suitable. Instead of actually controlling things he made it worse and ended up taking action that does look partisan to the point that even their own panel supporter couldn't defend him.

 

[Navy_Pete]

You're in the Navy bud. You heard and said a lot worse than calling someone 'wacko'.

When I first joined is was pretty common for problems to get solved in after rope stores.

The HoC is just a reflection of our society. Polarized and bubbling with angst.

Don't care about that, it's more that they spend time sniping at each other just to get a 15 second clip for tic tok instead of every actually collaborating on anything. They are so polarized across the board they are unable to actually compromise and work with people they don't like to get shit done.

If it's just political theatre they should make it interesting and have actual brawls like some of the asian countries, or at least get good insults. If I'm going to get punted from Parliament you can bet I'm going a lot stronger than wacko.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Litterally got a fundraising email minutes after he was ejected lol

Yup ...

... the later "wacko" comment was not the first time on the day that the Leader of the Opposition made a personal attack on the character of the PM. Beginning at 3:04 in the clip Mr. Poilievre referred to Mr. Trudeau as a "racist" ....

Specifically ....

.... Was yesterday's question period a "shit show"? Absolutely. Was it Mr. Fergus' finest hour? Absolutely not. Mr. Fergus will probably go down in history as one of the poorest Speakers of the House. He stumbled trying to maintain control; he appeared weak and inarticulate (the opposite of what should be the primary characteristics of the Speaker). My assumption is that his previous screw-ups have made him gun-shy, but I don't ascribe partisanship to his actions yesterday ...

I'd buy that assessment (these guys weren't the only ones being dinged with name calling during the session), but I also have to agree with @Halifax Tar that one's mileage may vary based on which jersey they like and which they don't.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Don't care about that, it's more that they spend time sniping at each other just to get a 15 second clip for tic tok instead of every actually collaborating on anything. They are so polarized across the board they are unable to actually compromise and work with people they don't like to get shit done.

If it's just political theatre they should make it interesting and have actual brawls like some of the asian countries, or at least get good insults. If I'm going to get punted from Parliament you can bet I'm going a lot stronger than wacko.

Part of the problem is that we have a government that seldom answers questions put to them and a PM that has never answered a question on point. Ordinary Canadians get tired of someone like PP asking a simple, one line, yes or no question, multiple times and having the PM stand up and read an off topic answer, from a piece of paper written by his PMO. You can't get co-operation from a party that obsfucates, lies, misdirects and refuses to accept any blame whatsoever for their mislaid plans and programs, no matter the cost or damage to Canadian citizens. Other parties and citizens, find that strategy unprofessional, frustrating, ingenuous, maddening and downright childish.

I know, I know, it's Question Period, not Answer Period. However, when a question is asked, it's incumbent on the government to answer truthfully and not slander or demean the person asking the question in order to avoid giving the answer.

As far as calling trudeau a racist, we shouldn't hide the fact because people don't like the term. He was and is, a racist.

 

[dimsum]

Don't care about that, it's more that they spend time sniping at each other just to get a 15 second clip for tic tok instead of every actually collaborating on anything. They are so polarized across the board they are unable to actually compromise and work with people they don't like to get shit done.

If it's just political theatre they should make it interesting and have actual brawls like some of the asian countries, or at least get good insults. If I'm going to get punted from Parliament you can bet I'm going a lot stronger than wacko.

I do miss the Taiwan fisticuffs…

 

[Navy_Pete]

Part of the problem is that we have a government that seldom answers questions put to them and a PM that has never answered a question on point. Ordinary Canadians get tired of someone like PP asking a simple, one line, yes or no question, multiple times and having the PM stand up and read an off topic answer, from a piece of paper written by his PMO. You can't get co-operation from a party that obsfucates, lies, misdirects and refuses to accept any blame whatsoever for their mislaid plans and programs, no matter the cost or damage to Canadian citizens. Other parties and citizens, find that strategy unprofessional, frustrating, ingenuous, maddening and downright childish.

I know, I know, it's Question Period, not Answer Period. However, when a question is asked, it's incumbent on the government to answer truthfully and not slander or demean the person asking the question in order to avoid giving the answer.

As far as calling trudeau a racist, we shouldn't hide the fact because people don't like the term. He was and is, a racist.

This isn't new; that's been going on my whole adult life. The difference is more on the governing side of things where it seems like any idea from the other side is automatically stupid.

At least before they used to freely poach from each others campaign plans etc, which I think is great.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I do miss the Taiwan fisticuffs…

This might require a change to the Constitution and warrants further exploration. Perhaps Question Period followed by a game of Parking Lot at Closing Time. But I'm afraid Elizabeth May would whoop them all, with bottle of vodka in one hand...

 

[brihard]

This might require a change to the Constitution and warrants further exploration. Perhaps Question Period followed by a game of Parking Lot at Closing Time. But I'm afraid Elizabeth May would whoop them all, with bottle of vodka in one hand...

Adults can legally consent to a fight without bodily harm. So it’s an option.

 

[dimsum]

Adults can legally consent to a fight without bodily harm. So it’s an option.

Chess-boxing.

It’s a thing.

 

[Kirkhill]

Then we can get back to the good old days of Trial by Combat and Champions....

Just need to start electing enforcers

 

[brihard]

Then we can get back to the good old days of Trial by Combat and Champions....

Alas, not electable as a mode of trial anymore. @FJAG might remember those?