• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

daftandbarmy said:
I believe OP CONNECTION $ dried up in the late 2010s, so that's not available in the same way to support these events.

IIRC that 39 CBG unit presence comes and goes depending on what the Commander of the day wants to/ can support. I recall years where we had an Airborne Platoon jump onto the airfield from a C-130, for example.

Another issue is, as it takes place in August, all ARes units are dispersed on summer training/ tasks and/ or fire fighting.

The bigger question is why a huge event like this, that attracts thousands of 'military interested' civilians annually, is apparently being 'under supported' by CFRC. Although I'm sure they have reasons related to funding and mandate too.
Click to expand...
Outreach events are not CFRC's problem. That's not in our mandate. Just like CFRC doesn't do its own adverts, doesnt do the Grey Cup, or snowbirds.

CFRG does recruiting/job events, which have a high probability of turning into applications, not feel good stuff for the public.
 
Underway said:
Outreach events are not CFRC's problem. That's not in our mandate. Just like CFRC doesn't do its own adverts, doesnt do the Grey Cup, or snowbirds.

CFRG does recruiting/job events, which have a high probability of turning into applications, not feel good stuff for the public.
Click to expand...
Therein lies the COMREL gap. We're doing a comrel experiment at my unit in collaboration with the local recruiters, so far so good but it's still early days. People need to see cool shit and our recruiting system, especially at the CFRC level struggles with that immensely. Can't blame them though, they aren't allocated anything internally.
 
armyrecognition.com

Canada accelerates efforts to replace US-made M777 howitzers with modern self-propelled alternatives

Canada accelerates its efforts to replace US-made M777 howitzers with modern self-propelled alternatives
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com

Longer article on the IFM. In particular this section is new info.

The Indirect Fires Modernisation (IFM) programme is identified as a priority within the Canadian Army’s broader modernisation efforts. The initiative is currently in the options analysis phase, with assessments focusing on the potential acquisition of a common fleet of medium 155mm 52-calibre self-propelled howitzers or a mixed fleet that includes both these systems and a light self-propelled artillery capability, such as a 120mm mortar system. The evaluation also considers the possible integration of loitering munitions through a separate urgent operational requirement. An initial procurement of up to 20 self-propelled howitzers may be conducted as an interim measure before full project implementation.
Click to expand...
Computerised battlefield simulations have been conducted as part of the IFM programme’s options analysis phase. These simulations, developed using Python with the SimPy package, assessed the operational effectiveness of indirect fire systems, including 81mm and 120mm mortars, M777 lightweight towed howitzers, and rocket artillery. Data collected from workshops with subject matter experts have been used to refine the model, focusing on weapon system specifications, ammunition consumption, and mission success probabilities under different threat scenarios.

While full funding for the IFM programme has not yet been secured, it has been identified as the second-highest procurement priority for the Canadian Army, following the Ground-Based Air Defence (GBAD) programme. The Chief of the Canadian Army has highlighted the indirect fires capability gap as a critical issue, and efforts are ongoing to finalise funding recommendations. A statement of capability deficiency has been drafted to address operational gaps, particularly in relation to Canada’s commitments under Operation Reassurance.
Click to expand...
 
Underway said:
armyrecognition.com

Flash News: South Korea Proposes K9 Howitzer as Alternative to US Artillery in Canada’s Modernization Plan

Flash News: South Korea Proposes K9 Howitzer as Alternative to US Artillery in Canada’s Modernization Plan
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com

Also this article
Click to expand...
If K9 why not K9A2

Details of the K9A2 upgrade:

  • Enhanced main gun : New rifling and chrome plating will increase barrel life from 1,000 rounds to 1,500 rounds (with maximum charges), longer range, and allow faster firing rate.
  • High-response artillery automation system : Key feature of the A2 and future A3 upgrade. Reduces crew number from 5 to 3 (2 in emergency) by installing a fully automated autoloading system, which increases the maximum firing rate from 6 to 8 rds/min to 9 to 10 rds/min and sustain firing rate from 2 to 3 rds/min to 4 to 6 rds/min.
  • Increased sustained fire : All 48 rounds are located in the turret, and are accessible with the autoloader.
  • Turret driving system : Changes from an electrohydraulic to an electric driving system.
  • Automatic fire suppress system (AFSS) : Enhanced fire suppress system for crew protection.
  • Remote controlled weapon station (RCWS) : Enables use of a secondary weapon without exposing a crew member.
  • Air conditioning : Increases crew comfort by cooling down the temperature.
  • Modular charge system (MCS): Provides crew protection from secondary explosions due to enemy fire including heavy weapons, by adapting insensitive charge, and required for the automatic loading process.
  • Composite rubber track (CRT): Provides crew comfort by reducing vibration, noise, and lesser required maintenance. Reduced weight improves the vehicle's operational range. The rubber has a lower fatality from fragments to surrounding soldiers, compared to metal when under attack
  • Enhanced armor : Anti-tank mine protection. Similar to the AS9 Huntsman standard
en.wikipedia.org

K9 Thunder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

K9A2 (with a remote controlled turret with 48 rounds on board) how about the same turret on an 8x8 or 10x10 as a complementary system?
 
PrairieFella said:
Therein lies the COMREL gap. We're doing a comrel experiment at my unit in collaboration with the local recruiters, so far so good but it's still early days. People need to see cool shit and our recruiting system, especially at the CFRC level struggles with that immensely. Can't blame them though, they aren't allocated anything internally.
Click to expand...

We tried that too, as I recall, but the CFRC workload/ resource constraints, different priorities "Mil Coll is our highest priority right now" and difficulties synching schedules "You guys only work evenings and weekends?" killed it.

Meanwhile, it sounds like CFRC is abandoning outreach activities in favour of advertising, which Comd CFRG is apparently keen on ;)


As the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) continue to support Canada’s national and international interests, bolstering our recruitment is critical. Appealing to potential recruits has become harder due to increased competition for qualified candidates, misconceptions about the military environment, and changing workplace values. As a result, basic outreach efforts are no longer attracting enough new members.

This personnel generation challenge provides us with a unique opportunity to deliberately refocus and inspire Canadians to see themselves excelling and thriving within our ranks.

“The ads invoked a sense of pride in me. I believe the internal audience, our currently serving members, will stand a little taller after seeing the new campaign. Just like I did, they will probably think to themselves: This IS For ME.”
- Col Nickolas Roby, Commander CFRG

Get involved with Canadian Armed Forces recruitment - Canada.ca

A look ahead to the upcoming advertising campaigns supporting Canadian Armed Forces recruitment.
www.canada.ca www.canada.ca
 
daftandbarmy said:
We tried that too, as I recall, but the CFRC workload/ resource constraints, different priorities "Mil Coll is our highest priority right now" and difficulties synching schedules "You guys only work evenings and weekends?" killed it.

Meanwhile, it sounds like CFRC is abandoning outreach activities in favour of advertising, which Comd CFRG is apparently keen on ;)


As the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) continue to support Canada’s national and international interests, bolstering our recruitment is critical. Appealing to potential recruits has become harder due to increased competition for qualified candidates, misconceptions about the military environment, and changing workplace values. As a result, basic outreach efforts are no longer attracting enough new members.

This personnel generation challenge provides us with a unique opportunity to deliberately refocus and inspire Canadians to see themselves excelling and thriving within our ranks.

“The ads invoked a sense of pride in me. I believe the internal audience, our currently serving members, will stand a little taller after seeing the new campaign. Just like I did, they will probably think to themselves: This IS For ME.”
- Col Nickolas Roby, Commander CFRG

Get involved with Canadian Armed Forces recruitment - Canada.ca

A look ahead to the upcoming advertising campaigns supporting Canadian Armed Forces recruitment.
www.canada.ca www.canada.ca
Click to expand...


Probably a strong argument that the highest value demographic is better reached via social media than air show comrel’s with 2 g rides.
 
There's a report from a news outlet in the National Capital Region that suggests the CAF is looking to sole source HIMARS for the LRPF portion of the program. Do they not read the news at NDHQ? There are other options out there which may even include the possibility of domestic rocket production.

Domestic munitions production is an area where I think it would be wise for Canada to invest. Building rockets isn't rocket sci....er, isn't that difficult and we already have companies capable of producing them. Where we need to focus is on guidance systems to free us from any potential ITAR issues.

There was what I thought was a good comment on a recent episode of CGAI's Defence Deconstructed podcast. I believe it was retired LGen Michael Day that said something along the lines that Canada should take a two pronged approach going forward. Lessen our dependence on the US (or anyone else) while at the same time making us more useful to our allies. That means consciously moving away from equipment with ITAR restrictions while at the same time increasing our overall capabilities so that we're a more valuable ally.

On another podcast (can't remember which one at the moment unfortunately) one of the guests suggested that Charles de Gaulle may have actually been the one to make the right choice in 1966 when France opted to remain a member of NATO but to opt out of the integrated military command in order to maintain strategic independence.

We need to stop thinking about how we can integrate into someone else's military and instead build the military we need to defend ourselves independently. That doesn't mean that we can't ally with and cooperate with other nations but just that we need to ensure we retain our ability to operate independently if/when we need to.
 
GR66 said:
There's a report from a news outlet in the National Capital Region that suggests the CAF is looking to sole source HIMARS for the LRPF portion of the program. Do they not read the news at NDHQ? There are other options out there which may even include the possibility of domestic rocket production.
Click to expand...
There are no other alternatives to HIMARS. Korean stuff is ok but it doesn't have the range and is still ITAR in a lot of cases.
So lets wear our big boy geostrategic pants, realize that Canada's military relations with the US are all star and quite good, and just get the proper equipment. By the time it shows up in 5 years the guy in charge we don't like won't be there anymore.
 
Underway said:
There are no other alternatives to HIMARS. Korean stuff is ok but it doesn't have the range and is still ITAR in a lot of cases.
So lets wear our big boy geostrategic pants, realize that Canada's military relations with the US are all star and quite good, and just get the proper equipment. By the time it shows up in 5 years the guy in charge we don't like won't be there anymore.
Click to expand...
Isn’t the lead time to get HIMARS multi-years away right now?
 
And that's just our procurement process.

Rimshot Drum Joke GIF
 
Czech_pivo said:
Isn’t the lead time to get HIMARS multi-years away right now?
Click to expand...
It was when Poland decided to go for the K239 in 2022. Their order for 500 HIMARS could not be fulfilled in a timely manner. They reduced the HIMARS order and bought somewhere between 240 - 290 K239s. On top of that they used Polish trucks and fire control systems.

Estonia is currently receiving some launchers but currently has issues with timelines for further HIMARS procurement.

breakingdefense.com

Estonia wants answers from US on HIMARS production, could turn to other options in 'months' - Breaking Defense

Dmytro Kuleba, the former Ukrainian foreign affairs minister, interrupted Breaking Defense's interview with Estonian defense minister Hanno Pevkur to praise Estonia for its willingness to donate weapons to Kyiv's aid.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
Click to expand...

🍻
 
FJAG said:
It was when Poland decided to go for the K239 in 2022. Their order for 500 HIMARS could not be fulfilled in a timely manner. They reduced the HIMARS order and bought somewhere between 240 - 290 K239s. On top of that they used Polish trucks and fire control systems.

Estonia is currently receiving some launchers but currently has issues with timelines for further HIMARS procurement.



🍻
Click to expand...
If we were smart (and we aren't), we'd maybe team up with Poland and SK to make non-ITAR, "domestic" systems based on the lessons learned from the American kit we all own.

Obviously there are IP issues to be overcome, but I'm pretty sure three relatively wealthy world powers could come up with solutions as a team. Maybe make the basis of the arrangement a non-limited use of whatever technology we co-develop. That way none of the players are bound by local politics in the other countries.
 
The last time we built a launcher on our own we ended up ADATS so there’s probably a sound argument to avoid it. While yes the US is unreliable right now I don’t think we’re going to see open conflict with them at any point in time.
 
markppcli said:
The last time we built a launcher on our own we ended up ADATS so there’s probably a sound argument to avoid it. While yes the US is unreliable right now I don’t think we’re going to see open conflict with them at any point in time.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is suggesting Canada develop it's own system, more that Canada should work with like minded partners to make systems not dependant on an unreliable partner.

America doesn't have to go to war with us to screw us... Look at Ukraine. They provided systems and Int, then turned off the taps to get a trade deal. How would you feel about a future Canada's HIMARS being slow rolled parts/ammo because the president of the day decides they want a better rate on hydro from Ontario or Quebec? Now, take that scenario, and put in it the context of Canada being back in a situation like Afghanistan... We need the kit to keep our troops alive/fighting, and an unreliable partner decides to use that as a bargaining chip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top