09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!
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Well, I think most reserve units are going to have to plan for the fallout of all this.
Courses being cancelled: Units might and will lose candidates. Given the uncertainty and people's schedules. Worse is the instructors who may not be able to commit to a new schedule which may lead to courses not being able to start back up.
Training being cancelled: Troops are probably going to look for other sources of income or commit more time to their other employers. If and when units stand up again it may be difficult for some of these guys to commit the way they were prior to the stand down.
Class B terminations: Loss of people. People on Class B within the army either are moving to civilian side, class Bs outside the army or are putting in for CT. This leaves most units with less manpower and the Army has less of a pool of potential instructors, leaders etc for its tasks. I know how Class Bs can't be posted but they could be tasked for months if need be outside their normal workplace. This will affect summer training, area concentrations are especially the G8/G20. And even if they create new class Bs in the next fiscal year, who's going to trust the army to honour those contracts?
My belief, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that although they are making fiscal arrangements and re-allocating funds but no one seems to be creating any type of damage control processes to limit the impact.
Courses being cancelled: Units might and will lose candidates. Given the uncertainty and people's schedules. Worse is the instructors who may not be able to commit to a new schedule which may lead to courses not being able to start back up.
Training being cancelled: Troops are probably going to look for other sources of income or commit more time to their other employers. If and when units stand up again it may be difficult for some of these guys to commit the way they were prior to the stand down.
Class B terminations: Loss of people. People on Class B within the army either are moving to civilian side, class Bs outside the army or are putting in for CT. This leaves most units with less manpower and the Army has less of a pool of potential instructors, leaders etc for its tasks. I know how Class Bs can't be posted but they could be tasked for months if need be outside their normal workplace. This will affect summer training, area concentrations are especially the G8/G20. And even if they create new class Bs in the next fiscal year, who's going to trust the army to honour those contracts?
My belief, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that although they are making fiscal arrangements and re-allocating funds but no one seems to be creating any type of damage control processes to limit the impact.
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Crantor said:
Most of your points are valid, and people are working on solutions. Don't think that CO's and their staffs are not brainstorming over this and trying to come up with solutions that could mitigate some of the foreseeable consequences.
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George Wallace said:
Alternatively, the Army, knowing Afghanistan is winding down and faced with looming budget pressures, is trying to hollow out the Reserves to permit it to redirect that funding elsewhere.
At least as logical a hypothesis as any other...
dapaterson said:
Tinfoil a little tight these days? Besides you credit the army staff with being able to conceive a fiendishly clever plot. More likely they are reacting to a foreseeable situation that snuck up on them.
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How does one define "necessary"?old fart said:
If it's to flesh out yet another headquarters, perhaps so a MGen can be employed organizing Nijmegen marches, I'd just as soon keep a viable Reserve thanks.
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old fart said:
:rofl:
Here we go.
Don't hate, k?
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Journeyman said:
Monies to the sharp end and reg force training systems (coupled with an easier way of punting the waste of rations making a career out of basic training and whom it is almost impossible to get rid of; the savings getting rid of training dead weight gave me a certain satisfaction....but not frequently enough).....
Also, the size of the tail on deployed ops also never fails to amaze me.....although I like creature comports as much as the next person.....I have been around long enough to know that the size of the rear ech on deployed ops is now bloated beyond belief.....and at what cost.....A massive one for sure.
The few times I was in KAF unfortunately coincided with ramp ceremonies and seeing the almost couple of thousand (swag must be close) of CF pers on the tarmac, each time I was left wondering how many of folks were actually down range; not even factoring HLTA/VTA.
The reg force house is far from perfect.....but I don't see things changing, monies spent on the reserves are monies better used by the regulars (army of course
)
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What kind of non sequitur argument is this?
Because there is a bloated log tail in Kaf, the reserve are not worth the money they get?
And here we go on the reg/res debate again. It doesn't surprise me though, as resources become scarce, people will be fighting tooth and nail for their empires.
Because there is a bloated log tail in Kaf, the reserve are not worth the money they get?
And here we go on the reg/res debate again. It doesn't surprise me though, as resources become scarce, people will be fighting tooth and nail for their empires.
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Logistics and HQs, that's what is in KAF. They may not be efficient, that I'll admit. But just because someone isn't "down range" doesn't make their job any less vital. Also, such "creature" comforts they provide include such things as food, water, ammunition, medical supplies, post services, welfare services, etc.old fart said:
According to the news and press releases that are pretty well everywhere, there are close to 3000 military members in Kandahar.
What this has to do with Army Budget (Force Generator) vice deployed force (CEFCOM, or Force Employer) is beyond me.
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old fart said:Monies to the sharp end and reg force training systems (coupled with an easier way of punting the waste of rations making a career out of basic training and whom it is almost impossible to get rid of; the savings getting rid of training dead weight gave me a certain satisfaction....but not frequently enough).....
Also, the size of the tail on deployed ops also never fails to amaze me.....although I like creature comports as much as the next person.....I have been around long enough to know that the size of the rear ech on deployed ops is now bloated beyond belief.....and at what cost.....A massive one for sure.
The few times I was in KAF unfortunately coincided with ramp ceremonies and seeing the almost couple of thousand (swag must be close) of CF pers on the tarmac, each time I was left wondering how many of folks were actually down range; not even factoring HLTA/VTA.
The reg force house is far from perfect.....but I don't see things changing, monies spent on the reserves are monies better used by the regulars (army of course
Army - Reg F - about 50% are garrison personnel. Not field units. The structure is designed and maintained by the Reg F.
Deployed structures - bloated (to be sure). Designed and maintained by the same Reg F.
Training system. Designed and maintained by... but you get the picture.
Are there some issues in the Res F that requrie optimization? Yes. No doubt. But with the Army spending over $1B per year on Reg F pay that's a significant place to start looking for savings - but it's sacrosanct, so instead we are imposing significant cuts to the Reserve Force and Reserve units which have successfully force-generated for operations when requested to do so.
Given the Reg F's inability to maintain a viable structure for itself (did you know that until recently each LFA was permitted to steal positions from their units, resulting in the nine Reg F infantry Bns all being different?), inability to maintain a coherent equipment plan, inability to plan its personnel requirements... yiou'll forgive me if I'd prefer they not muck about too much with the Reserves.
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old fart said:Monies to the sharp end and reg force training systems (coupled with an easier way of punting the waste of rations making a career out of basic training and whom it is almost impossible to get rid of; the savings getting rid of training dead weight gave me a certain satisfaction....but not frequently enough).....
Also, the size of the tail on deployed ops also never fails to amaze me.....although I like creature comports as much as the next person.....I have been around long enough to know that the size of the rear ech on deployed ops is now bloated beyond belief.....and at what cost.....A massive one for sure.
The few times I was in KAF unfortunately coincided with ramp ceremonies and seeing the almost couple of thousand (swag must be close) of CF pers on the tarmac, each time I was left wondering how many of folks were actually down range; not even factoring HLTA/VTA.
The reg force house is far from perfect.....but I don't see things changing, monies spent on the reserves are monies better used by the regulars (army of course
There will always be dyed in the wool, short sighted careerists that can't see past the empire building sacred teet that they've been milking for most of their adult life. To them the Reservists that stepped up and filled those spots, that the Regs couldn't, on the pointy end in Afghanistan, are still nothing more than a waste of skin to be tossed to the wolves. All they percieve with all the cuts, is a threat to their personal kingdom, that must be preserved at all costs so the stink doesn't touch them.
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recceguy said:
[rant]
These careerists, who can affect these kinds of decisions, are in high places. They are comparable to the NORTEL Executives, CEOs, etc. who still managed to garner severance pay/options/etc. while the workers lost their jobs and pensions. They are in positions, where they will face minimal to no changes to their careers, and will walk into some civvie company on retirement as a Executive Officer. These changes have no consequence to their futures. One may even say that they 'don't care'.
[/rant]
:-\
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R031button
Guest
One wonders how much money could be saved in the reserves by looking at the 50 odd CO's and RSM's of Reserve Infantry Regiments, many full time, compared to the amount of troops they "command." I know of one such unit in BC that parades a platoon minus, has a full time Lt Col and Adj, as well as an RSM that is paid to drive in and spend three days in a hotel every week. Yet no exercises until March?
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R031button said:
Unfortunately, the Comd LFWA, CLS, Army Council, the CDS and the Minister appear to be quite happy with instances such as that (lets assume your statement is 100% factual).
Did we not try to fix that rationalizing the reserves....seems there is still work to be done....on the reg force side of the fence also, and the way we do business.
PS...is the CO a Class B?
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R031button
Guest
I believe the fix, ie: the tactical grouping of units, was discussed, but I don't know of it being implemented anywhere in 39 Brigade. I believe it was implemented within 38 CBG, with the Sask Inf regiments sharing a HQ, as with the two regiments in Winnipeg doing the same. I guess at the end of the day senior officers are very reluctant to axe other senior officers.
Yes he is
Yes he is
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