09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!

[Staff Weenie]

At one point, there was a real advantage to having numerous personnel from your unit employed elsewhere on Cl B. These folks counted as being on your 'effective strength', and when the funding was being calculated at higher levels they were funded as if they were active Cl A troops. So, you got so many days of Cl A pay for a soldier who didn't cost you a dime (was it 42.5 days per year?). You could then redirect the money to employing other soldiers.

One unit I knew of had approximately 20 personnel employed Cl B outside of the unit. The CO thus had money for almost a Pl worth of extra troops for the year. It was a very common practice to encourage it.

 

[McG]

All those Reserve Force .... on B Class contracts working outside of their home units and the Army - in places like DSCO Ottawa etc ... will now be managed and paid for by the entity where they are actually working for and employed in. That will free up lots of "Army money" because ....

The employing unit (EU) already has a responsibility to pay the Class B pers they use (so no money saved).
This policy will not result in cuts to unit ORs (so no money saved).
This policy will force reservists onto existing PRLs (which are already complaining of being under staffed, so will likely expand to handle the burden & consume more money).

I'm not saying this is a bad policy (because I don't think it is).  However, it is a policy that will result in new demands for permanent staff in new & existing PRLs.  It will not save money.  It will reduce the burden of work on PRes unit ORs.

 

[armyvern]

I understand that they are already paid by the entity with whom they are employed.

But, it takes a whole lot of Army bucks to continue "to manage" those pers who wear Army uniforms but whom are not employed within or on behalf of the Army. I think this new policy is great:

You want to employ them because you have a need over there in DSSPM (par example) ... then you pay them and you manage them.

It makes sense to me - it ensures that appropriate entity will now have to expend the appropriate funds from their own entity's budget "to manage people employed within" vice the Army bearing management costs for pers they can't touch or rely upon to deploy etc.

 

[McG]

But, it takes a whole lot of Army bucks to continue "to manage" those pers who wear Army uniforms but whom are not employed within or on behalf of the Army.

The people doing the management are OR clerks & adjutants in the various reserve units.  I cannot see any of these being cut with the change (they will remain but be better able to focus on the responsibilities in the unit).  Where exactly do you see money being saved?

 

[54/102 CEF]

Its easy to dismiss Class B on callout away from the unit. Some of the commentary here is way out of line on Class B commitment.

Last year I took P Res Army Ops from Sep 08 - Jul 09.

How many would count up your work year and add an extra 28%?

No time off during the week to study, no time off in lieu

Did both jobs = approx extra 55 days work

Got the certificate in spite of the Gaff Factor going below zero

I`ll claim my percentage in support of CLS`s "intent" to stay with the unit. And I expect 20 others in the same boat will too.

Look around you - you may recognise me and the other 60 fellow hard heads.

 

[George Wallace]

The employing unit (EU) already has a responsibility to pay the Class B pers they use (so no money saved).
This policy will not result in cuts to unit ORs (so no money saved).
This policy will force reservists onto existing PRLs (which are already complaining of being under staffed, so will likely expand to handle the burden & consume more money).

I'm not saying this is a bad policy (because I don't think it is).  However, it is a policy that will result in new demands for permanent staff in new & existing PRLs.  It will not save money.  It will reduce the burden of work on PRes unit ORs.

Hate to burst you bubble, but this policy has cut deeply into the Reserves.  Our OR has lost the guy who does Pay.  The OR is left with a Reg Force Air Force RMS Clerk as CC, who does not have knowledge of the Reserve Pay or Administration systems, nor is qualified PLQ, but holding an Acting Lacking rank.  There is one newly hired OR Clerk on Class B.  They have to deal with two unique units, with officers and Snr NCOs who are spread across the country.  The Class B QM/TN NCO had his job terminated.  The Trg NCO had his job terminated.  The Recruiting/Release NCO had their job terminated.  The Ops WO and Ops O/Adjt had their jobs terminated, and we are told that a Reg Force officer and WO may be posted in this APS.  It is January.  Two unique units are now rendered INEFFECTIVE for the next six or more months depending on who and if someone gets posted in as RSS.  Talk your way out of this one.  A clerk, especially one with no experience, can not run one unit, let alone two, by themself.  People are asking questions, but really don't see the decision makers as being willing to look at what they have done.

 

[Haggis]

Hmn.  I prefer a more negative view on this.  How many of these people on class B that actually parade with their unit  are going to get L2 approval?  Something tells me not very many, even with justification from their COs.  At my unit some of these gusy occupy some key positions.

The onus is on the EU to justify why the member is not allowed to parade.  This removes the onus on the L2 to career manage the member beyond what is required for his Class B employment.  Gaining L2 approval is easier than you think.

 

[CountDC]

The people doing the management are OR clerks & adjutants in the various reserve units.  I cannot see any of these being cut with the change (they will remain but be better able to focus on the responsibilities in the unit).  Where exactly do you see money being saved?

hmmm - in the navy we just had a unit hire on a cl b to manage all the cl b pers that were administered by the unit but not employed there so a policy such as this would have saved money there.

It may also be one of those cases where someone has sat down and done the "we spend x hours administrating these people and that computes to x dollars a year".  No real dollars saved as you mentioned.

By the message someone has identified savings somewhere so it will be interesting to see where.  Perhaps next you will see the cl b pay clerk posns (if the units still have them) turned back into cl a posn.

 

[McG]

Hate to burst you bubble, but this policy has cut deeply into the Reserves.  Our OR has lost the guy who does Pay.  The OR is left with a Reg Force Air Force RMS Clerk as CC, who does not have knowledge of the Reserve Pay or Administration systems, nor is qualified PLQ, but holding an Acting Lacking rank.  There is one newly hired OR Clerk on Class B.  They have to deal with two unique units, with officers and Snr NCOs who are spread across the country.  The Class B QM/TN NCO had his job terminated.  The Trg NCO had his job terminated.  The Recruiting/Release NCO had their job terminated.  The Ops WO and Ops O/Adjt had their jobs terminated, and we are told that a Reg Force officer and WO may be posted in this APS.  It is January.  Two unique units are now rendered INEFFECTIVE for the next six or more months depending on who and if someone gets posted in as RSS.  Talk your way out of this one.  A clerk, especially one with no experience, can not run one unit, let alone two, by themself.  People are asking questions, but really don't see the decision makers as being willing to look at what they have done.

Sorry George, but there are a lot of moving parts and you seem to be confusing the effects of one issue as being brought about by another issue.

The cessation of employment that you reference are not because of the new PRL policy.  They are because the Army has seperately directed that the number of Class B possitions be significantly reduced.  That is going to suck for a lot of people, but it is not a result of the CANLANDGEN.

 

[CountDC]

Hate to burst you bubble, but this policy has cut deeply into the Reserves.  Our OR has lost the guy who does Pay.  The OR is left with a Reg Force Air Force RMS Clerk as CC, who does not have knowledge of the Reserve Pay or Administration systems, nor is qualified PLQ, but holding an Acting Lacking rank.  There is one newly hired OR Clerk on Class B.  They have to deal with two unique units, with officers and Snr NCOs who are spread across the country.  The Class B QM/TN NCO had his job terminated.  The Trg NCO had his job terminated.  The Recruiting/Release NCO had their job terminated.  The Ops WO and Ops O/Adjt had their jobs terminated, and we are told that a Reg Force officer and WO may be posted in this APS.  It is January.  Two unique units are now rendered INEFFECTIVE for the next six or more months depending on who and if someone gets posted in as RSS.  Talk your way out of this one.  A clerk, especially one with no experience, can not run one unit, let alone two, by themself.  People are asking questions, but really don't see the decision makers as being willing to look at what they have done.

wow - feel sorry for the unit.  Hopefully they do post in some really strong RSS as you will need it by then to straighten everything out.  The clerk situation is a real shame and I still say it shouldn't happen - reserve units need CCs that are proven able to step up to the plate not actings that shouldn't even exist but as they do should be in an OR with supervisors to mentor them.

 

[Remius]

The onus is on the EU to justify why the member is not allowed to parade.  This removes the onus on the L2 to career manage the member beyond what is required for his Class B employment.  Gaining L2 approval is easier than you think.

Well I'm going to take a watch and shoot approach to this.  But given who our L2 is, I'm not feeling very good about that CANLANGEN.  The intent is good, but the execution (given recent events) might not be.

 

[Remius]

Just saw some stuff that makes me feel a bit better about this.  Hopefully we'll ride it out well enough.  Looks like someone seemed to recognise the bleeding and is trying to stem the blood loss.  Time will tell.

 

[LineJumper]

Just saw some stuff that makes me feel a bit better about this.  Hopefully we'll ride it out well enough.  Looks like someone seemed to recognise the bleeding and is trying to stem the blood loss.  Time will tell.

Do tell, so I can direct some of the jobless/cutback I know to happier times. (rather than a reg recruiter >)

 

[Remius]

Nothing to write home about.  But it looks like they are asking for lists of people that are NES, not parading but on class B or that aren't progressing in the training system.  As oposed to trying to justify keeping guys that are actually parading.  At least for now they are letting units manage their own dirty laundry.

It also looks like they are trying to redistribute some money from have units to have nots to spread the pain.  Looks like no more job cutting until next fiscal year when they'll have a better idea of what the budget looks like. (I know that doesn't sound great but at least people have a few more months to make alternate plans)

 

[PanaEng]

Well, in 33 CBG at least, BMQ and PLQ courses are back on; some units are back to regular parading and some admin nights - we may even have an ex before the end of the year.

cheers,
Frank

 

[Spanky]

We got the call earlier this week as well.  All weekly half days turned back on, possibly an ex or two before April.  Feast or Famine!  No word yet on courses.

 

[McG]

Yep.  Now that everyone's budget has been chopped, others are starting to throw money back at the system that they held and now cannot spend.

 

[aesop081]

Things are getting turned back on ? 

I'm taking bets on how many pages it will take before this also becomes a massive RegF evil conspiracy to screw with the reserves.

 

[Haggis]

I'm taking bets on how many pages it will take before this also becomes a massive RegF evil conspiracy to screw with the reserves.

Why wait?  Go back and re-read a few of the earlier pages.

 

[Remius]

Things are getting turned back on ? 

I'm taking bets on how many pages it will take before this also becomes a massive RegF evil conspiracy to screw with the reserves.

Some things are. 

I realise you have no sympathy for what's been going on, but comments like that don't help.