31 May 2024: Terror attack in Germany

[TacticalTea]

Following up on my earlier point about ideological blinders...

The European mental poison that leads to an incorrect operational picture:


This is how European media qualifies an Islamic terrorist attack.

This is how their institutions interpret facts on the ground and in turn, how they brief their field agents.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Following up on my earlier point about ideological blinders...

The European mental poison that leads to an incorrect operational picture:

View attachment 85677
This is how European media qualifies an Islamic terrorist attack.

This is how their institutions interpret facts on the ground and in turn, how they brief their field agents.

Some Brits (even some not working for Sky News) would be put out by being considered "European", ya know

 

[brihard]

Following up on my earlier point about ideological blinders...

The European mental poison that leads to an incorrect operational picture:

View attachment 85677
This is how European media qualifies an Islamic terrorist attack.

This is how their institutions interpret facts on the ground and in turn, how they brief their field agents.

Alternatively, the nature of the event it happened at is known; the identity of the attacker, so far as I’m aware, is not.

The actual article quotes the German Interior Minister as calling ‘Extreme Islam’ “a great danger”.

It’s useful when given just a meme like that to track it to the article and read for yourself. This one seems reasonably balanced given the presently available facts.

Germany knife attack: Man shot after stabbing police officer in frenzied attack at far-right event in Mannheim

German media say anti-Islam activist Michael Stuerzenberger was one of those injured in the attack.

news.sky.com

 

[TacticalTea]

Alternatively, the nature of the event it happened at is known; the identity of the attacker, so far as I’m aware, is not.

The actual article quotes the German Interior Minister as calling ‘Extreme Islam’ “a great danger”.

It’s useful when given just a meme like that to track it to the article and read for yourself. This one seems reasonably balanced given the presently available facts.

Germany knife attack: Man shot after stabbing police officer in frenzied attack at far-right event in Mannheim

German media say anti-Islam activist Michael Stuerzenberger was one of those injured in the attack.

news.sky.com

You think most people read all the articles they see, or just what they have time for; the headlines?

Journalists know this and convey their intended message accordingly, under the cover of the plausible deniability you've been baited into.

This is but one example. To pretend it is an isolated incident is to be wilfully and stubbornly ignorant.

 

[brihard]

You think most people read all the articles they see, or just what they have time for; the headlines?

Journalists know this and convey their intended message accordingly, under the cover of the plausible deniability you've been baited into.

This is but one example. To pretend it is an isolated incident is to be wilfully and stubbornly ignorant.

The headline accurately reflects what was known at the time. It was a far right event and a dude went wildly stabby. Headlines aren’t where they’ll generally speculate. It sound like you want all news distilled down to and presented as single tweets.

 

[TacticalTea]

The headline accurately reflects what was known at the time. It was a far right event and a dude went wildly stabby. Headlines aren’t where they’ll generally speculate. It sound like you want all news distilled down to and presented as single tweets.

No...

It sounds like I'm not naive, but instead choose to analyze our contemporary reality beyond the surface/technical level.

I have a lot of respect for you and your expertise Brihard, but sometimes your unwillingness to dig deeper is bewildering.

Headlines are generally engineered by editors, not article authors, for very specific ends. Commercial or ideological.

This is not a myth or a theory, it's cold hard facts. Ask any journalist.

 

[brihard]

No...

It sounds like I'm not naive, but instead choose to analyze our contemporary reality beyond the surface/technical level.

I have a lot of respect for you and your expertise Brihard, but sometimes your unwillingness to dig deeper is bewildering.

Headlines are generally engineered by editors, not article authors, for very specific ends. Commercial or ideological.

This is not a myth or a theory, it's cold hard facts. Ask any journalist.

And your proposed headline for this incident based on the principles of responsible reporting, and the available facts at the time would have been..?

 

[TacticalTea]

And your proposed headline for this incident based on the principles of responsible reporting, and the available facts at the time would have been..?

Generally, an honest headline takes into account how it will be read. "Far-" is pejorative, whether the suffix is "right" or "left".

"Man" implies neutrality. This is wrong and cowardly when you're talking about a stabbing maniac.

With both in the same sentence, many readers will associate the stabbing with the identified political group (far right) instead of the attacker.

A better headline might read "Apparent Islamist stabs activists, policeman, gets shot", if the Islamism element can be established (it usually can, editors regularly choose to edit it out).

If not, "Stabber gets shot after attacking right-wing activists, policeman"

Editors often use neutral voice to deflect attention away from assailants of their preferred ethnic or political group.

If you want to go to the opposite of the original slant, you can even say "Right wing activists stop knife wielding attacker". The fact that he was shot after the police fumbled it is somewhat less interesting than the fact someone dared to fight back.

 

[brihard]

Generally, an honest headline takes into account how it will be read. "Far-" is pejorative, whether the suffix is "right" or "left".

"Man" implies neutrality. This is wrong and cowardly when you're talking about a stabbing maniac.

With both in the same sentence, many readers will associate the stabbing with the identified political group (far right) instead of the attacker.

A better headline might read "Apparent Islamist stabs activists, policeman, gets shot", if the Islamism element can be established (it usually can, editors regularly choose to edit it out).

If not, "Stabber gets shot after attacking right-wing activists, policeman"

Editors often use neutral voice to deflect attention away from assailants of their preferred ethnic or political group.

If you want to go to the opposite of the original slant, you can even say "Right wing activists stop knife wielding attacker". The fact that he was shot after the police fumbled it is somewhat less interesting than the fact someone dared to fight back.

Would you object to the media characterizing an Antifa event as “far-left” in describing violence there? I suspect not. I wouldn’t. Pejorative is still accurate sometimes. The civilian victim has been a member of PEGIDA and other groups that can fairly be described as ‘far right’. So that’s an accurate characterization.

“Apparent Islamist” is a guess not yet supportive by a factual basis that would be responsible to report. It’s absolutely a reasonable guess given the circumstances - and the article itself paints a picture leading to those inferences - but any editor would rightly kibosh such a speculative headline. I would suggest it’s also equally pejorative to what you took issue with already.

The headline succinctly states what was then know of the ‘where’ (important given it’s foreign reporting) and the ‘what’. ‘Who’ and ‘why’ wasn’t confidently known yet, and as breaking news, the ‘when’ is easily inferred.-

I understand the larger critique you’re trying to make about ideological framing in media, but this just isn’t a good technical example of it in action.

 

[TacticalTea]

Would you object to the media characterizing an Antifa event as “far-left” in describing violence there? I suspect not. I wouldn’t. Pejorative is still accurate sometimes. The civilian victim has been a member of PEGIDA and other groups that can fairly be described as ‘far right’. So that’s an accurate characterization.

Same rules apply.

I don't think it's pertinent to start speculating about the victims' politics - in the headline - when you're talking about a terrorist attack opposed to the victim.

Now if the perpetrator is the leftist or rightist, then yes it becomes relevant.

 

[brihard]

Same rules apply.

I don't think it's pertinent to start speculating about the victims' politics - in the headline - when you're talking about a terrorist attack opposed to the victim.

Now if the perpetrator is the leftist or rightist, then yes it becomes relevant.

They weren’t speculating about the victim’s politics. The victim’s identity and politics were immediately known; it was a pre-planned public event being filmed by those who were there. His identity and politics were why people were there.

 

[KevinB]

They weren’t speculating about the victim’s politics. The victim’s identity and politics were immediately known; it was a pre-planned public event being filmed by those who were there. His identity and politics were why people were there.

The attacker’s identity and religion was known well inside 5 minutes after the incident.

 

[brihard]

The attacker’s identity and religion was known well inside 5 minutes after the incident.

By police, quite possibly, if he was still alive and taking. Was that information available to the media at the time of that headline? That’s what I’ve been responding to.

 

[TacticalTea]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-officer-attacked-by-knifeman-during-protest-has-died-2024-06-02/

I think it's a bit too facile to say "hindsight 2020" and abandon all esprit critique.

On the contrary, one can learn from others' mistakes. What that officer did almost got him killed.

You won't see me doing that (focus all attention on one party).

I had the same reaction earlier today when I saw a video of a Frenchman restraining a troublemaker in public transit. In that case, the Frenchman suffered no blowback, but he easily could've, had the troublemaker had accomplices.

FTFM

Also, this alternate angle shows two officers running away from the fight:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797432768848368000

I don't think it's reasonable at all to describe this intervention as anywhere close to "very correct".

 

[Jarnhamar]

The suspect has no criminal record, no history of violence. Married with two kids, living in Germany for 10 years. Worse places to live for someone born in Afghanistan.

Still, one just does not insult Islam and expect stabbings to happen.

 

[FSTO]

Still, one just does not insult Islam and expect stabbings to happen.

Say that to Salmon Rushdie.

Fundamentalist Christians are insulted daily. The play (musical?) Book of Mormon is a parody of the Mormons. The Jewish, Buddhist, even the Satanist faiths are routinely made fun of, and rarely if ever there is an armed attack against the perpetrators of the "insults". It seems to be only the Islamist that lose their bloody minds if Allah or Mohamed is "insulted". This is where the phobias come from and it is incumbent of the Islamic leaders to categorially delete any and all references to Jihad, killing of Apostates, One Religion, and any other idea that killing a person or a group of people who don't believe in your colander deity is right. Fuck religious fundamentalism/fanaticism. These thoughts have brought nothing but war and ruin to everyone and the Islamic faith needs to clean up its act.

 

[TacticalTea]

phobias

Phobia implies a degree of irrationality...

There is nothing irrational about an aversion to a religion which has been incessantly trying to invade and subjugate Europe for over a thousand years.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Say that to Salmon Rushdie.

Typo. Meant one does not insult Islam and not expect stabbings to happen.

 

[KevinB]

Typo. Meant one does not insult Islam and not expect stabbings to happen.

Stabbings, shootings, and suicide bombers…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Stabbings, shootings, and suicide bombers…

Which helps increase fears:

Majorities in Europe, North America worried about Islamic extremism

People across Europe and in the U.S. and Canada have pervasive concerns about the threat of Islamic extremism in their countries.

www.pewresearch.org