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Age Limits - Reserves

Hatchet Man said:
That's nice but I don't need to read it because it would still be wrong, hint I am not an applicant, nor am I making wild assumptions about the inner workings of the recruiting world.  Their is only one standard.  If someone isn't doing things properly its more than likely cause they are new to the job and/or the applicants involved are hearing/believing what THEY want to hear/believe.

Or, y'know, how about you *do* read it before you blow it off, buds?

Hint: I am not an applicant, nor am I making wild assumptions about the inner workings of the recruiting world. On the contrary, one of the two of us is within his arcs. It ain't you.

This issue *is* a real one, and has been noted by CFRG headquarters. Try reading before you spout off on what some of us *have* actually spent time and effort looking into.
 
Hatchet Man said:
There is only one standard its the Recruiting Handbook and Recruiting Process Manual, in it are listed the various requirements for entry with the appropriate references.  If people in CFRC's aren't staying abreast of any changes that is a short coming on that individual and their CofC.

Removed
 
curious george said:
On the other end of the spectrum, why are you not allowed to work past 60?  How did they come up with this number?  The 60 year olds of today are much "younger" than the 60 years olds a generation or two ago.  Your ability to do the job should not be based solely on a number.  (I believe there is an army doctor in the US who recently deployed in his 70's or 80's.  He was valued for his immense experience and expertise).  Has anybody challenged this with Human Rights Tribunal or other appropriate avenue?

The mandatory retirement age of 60 years is relatively new for the CF.  It used to be 55 and not that long ago was even younger depending on rank and terms of service.

You may be referring to Colonel William Bernard, a physician and surgeon in his late 70s (who is retired from his civilian anesthesiology practice but still licensed to practice medicine) who is in the “Retired Reserve”  and volunteered several times for deployment.  There are a few other septogenarians old coot doctors who have done the same.  Actually, in the US military it is not unheard of for really old doctors (and other medical professionals) to come back on active duty.  You won’t find the same acceptance for old volunteers in other military occupations.  There is a difference between Canada and the USA in the status of military retirees.  Up here, we contribute to a pension plan and, once retired and in receipt of superannuation, have no obligation for further service.  In the US military, they do not contribute to a pension and technically do not receive a pension when they retire but “retired pay” and belong to the “retired reserve” with the obligation for recall to active duty if required and are fit to serve.  During the Gulf War (the one back in 1991, Desert Storm), the senior US medical officer (USAF Reserve) that we worked with was in his late 60s.  He had first joined up during WW2.  He made our DCO (a physician who had rejoined the Reg Force after he turned 50) look positively young (actually not, “Swiney Al” never looked young).

During Desert Storm, the US Army was short of Physician Assistants to (primarily) man the BASs of their deployed units.  The way they solved this shortage was to involuntarily recall to active duty a large number (couple of hundred?) of PAs from the retired reserve.  I ran across one of these fellows who was transiting through our ASF as a patient.  Other than his medical condition, he was typical of the activated PAs.  He had been out of the Army a long time (hadn’t worn a uniform for over a decade).  He was well established in his civilian job/practice as a PA.  He had been sent to Saudi Arabia and into the desert within a couple of weeks of activation and at 62 years old he was maybe a little older than the average but not by much and he wasn’t the oldest.  The reason he was being evacuated (before the start of the ground war) was that he had an MI.

And yes, there have been human rights challenges to the CF mandatory retirement policies.  Take note of this section of the Canadian Human Rights Act.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/H-6/page-5.html#docCont
Exceptions
15. (1) It is not a discriminatory practice if
(a) any refusal, exclusion, expulsion, suspension, limitation, specification or preference in relation to any employment is established by an employer to be based on a bona fide occupational requirement;
(b) employment of an individual is refused or terminated because that individual has not reached the minimum age, or has reached the maximum age, that applies to that employment by law or under regulations, which may be made by the Governor in Council for the purposes of this paragraph;
(c) an individual’s employment is terminated because that individual has reached the normal age of retirement for employees working in positions similar to the position of that individual;

One of the notable CHRT decisions is Martin et al v. DND/CF.  It may be an interesting read for you if you are genuinely interested in the reasons that the CF presented to support this policy.  This ruling caught my eye because I am familiar with some of the plaintiffs, most particularly MWO (Ret’d) Ernie Grossek who was at 4CMBG/CFE HQ when I was in Germany (during same time frame in early 1990s when this complaint was made) and Col (Ret’d) Bob (the Slob) Slavik.

http://chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/aspinc/search/vhtml-eng.asp?doid=156&lg=_e&isruling=0&arch=true
. . . . . . .

The essence of the complaints, is that the Complainants were
compulsorily retired from the CAF upon attaining a specified age and for
this reason only. The Respondents did not seriously dispute that this
constitutes a discriminatory practice under Sections 7 & 10 of the CHRA.
[b/Rather, the Respondents sought to justify the CRA policies as being a "bona
fide occupational requirement" ("BFOR") within S.15(a) of the CHRA, or as
"regulations" which come within s.15(b) of the CHRA. [/b]

. . . . . . .

In making the s. 15 (b) argument, counsel for the
Respondents had some difficulty attributing a meaning to the words "for the
Purposes of this paragraph" found at the end of paragraph 15(b). Counsel
admitted that these words are superfluous and attributed the wording of
the paragraph to clumsy drafting. In her view, the obvious legislative
Q.R. & 0. 15.17 and 15.31 contain no reference to the CHRA.
This is not surprising because they were passed prior to the enactment of
the CHRA. Thus, even in the absence of express wording, it is difficult to
accept the argument that they are regulations made for the purposes of
s.15(b) of the CHRA.

The decision was in favour of the plaintiffs with the CF’s argument of a BFOR not standing up to scrutiny and as noted the “regulations” argument also not accepted.  The government sought judicial review of the decision, which upheld the tribunal opinion and also had its appeal rejected.  Since the major point was that the regulations about mandatory retirement were not made specifically for the purpose of the CHRA, it did trigger a change.  The CHRT decision was made in August 1992, in September 1992 the following statement was first added to QR&O 15.17 and 15.31.
(11) This article is a regulation made for the purposes of paragraph 15(1)(b) of the Canadian Human Rights Act.
 
I was looking at the Canadian forces website and is says you must be 17 to join the reserves. However, I was told by someone that it is actually based on the year if birth. So that would mean you can actually join the year you turn 17 . So I could join right now since my birthday is in 1998. However, I do not turn 17 until October this year.

My question is which one is true? Do you have to be 17 to join or can you join the year you turn 17? The reason I'm asking is because I'm born in 1998 and I would like to join the reserves and do basic training this summer. The thing is I don't actually turn 17 until October. It just seems weird that some of my friends who are born the same year as me might be able to join this summer but I can't since I'm just a few months younger.

Also wondering if someone knows which unit in Ottawa I should contact if I am looking to join as an infantry soldier. I looked on the forces website but I can't figure out which one is for infantry.

Thanks
 
Jay Ell said:
I was looking at the Canadian forces website and is says you must be 17 to join the reserves.

Who can apply:

To apply to the Forces, you must:

    Be a Canadian Citizen.
    Be 17 years of age, with parental consent, or older, except:
        Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applications must be 16 or older.
    Have completed at least Grade 10 or Secondaire IV (in Quebec).
        Certain entry programs and occupations require higher levels of education.

I fail to see how this is in any way unclear.


 
I found two on the forces website:

Governor General's Foot Guards
Cartier Square Drill Hall
2 Queen Elizabeth Drive
Ottawa, ON  K1A 0K2
Phone: (613) 990-6605
Email: GGFG_OR@forces.gc.ca

Hours of Operations:

Monday to Friday, 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Tuesday Evenings (Sept – Jun): 6:30 p.m. - 10:00 p.m.

Recruiting:
GGFG.Recruiting@forces.gc.ca
(613) 990-0502

http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/ggfg/index.page



The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa
Cartier Square Drill Hall
2 Queen Elizabeth Dr.
Ottawa, ON  K1A 0K2
Telephone: (613)-990-6603
Hours of Operation:

Monday - Friday: 9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Thursday evenings (Sep - Jun): 7:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m.

http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/cameron-highlanders-ottawa/index.page
 
ModlrMike said:
I fail to see how this is in any way unclear.

Site says 17, yet there was a 16 year old pte on my BMQ in 2013.  I'd have to track him down and check, but there might be one in my unit right now, actually.
 
ModlrMike said:
I fail to see how this is in any way unclear.

Not to disagree with you, but this has been somewhat unclear in previous discussions.

EG:

Brihard said:
From CANFORGEN 038/11

3. IN THE RESERVE FORCE, AN APPLICANT MUST BE:

A. AGE 18, IF THE APPLICANT ENROLS IN THE COATS OR CANADIAN RANGERS

B. AGE 16, IF THE APPLICANT IS SELECTED FOR EDUCATION AND TRAINING AT A ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE OR OTHERWISE MAINTAINS FULL-TIME STUDENT STATUS UNTIL AGE 17.



Nothing here says that high school does not count. I know that I enrolled a guy in January who is 16 and who had no trouble going through CFRC. He's still in high school full time. I do not know if explicitly that reasoning was used by CFRC, but there was no hindrance and they certainly knew his age.

This discussion comes up from time to time:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+CANFORGEN+038%2F11&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&ei=NLnzVJLTOsyD8Qeqy4GoDQ&gws_rd=ssl

ETA: It is also discussed in a 32-page mega-thread:

Age Limits to Join 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12904.750
 
The minimum age for "enrolment" into the Reserves is:

a.  16 years of age, with parental consent, a minimum Grade 10 education and the applicant MUST maintain "full time" attendance at an academic institution until the age of 17;  or

b.  17 years of age, with parental consent and a minimum Grade 10 education.
 
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