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All About PAT (merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Andrew
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PAT Platoon is a total waste of a person's time and life.  Forget what the other people said here that at least you are getting paid. It would better to be out of the CF and NOT getting paid than to be in PAT Platoon.  In St-Jean, if you get an injury on course or decide that the military isn't for you, or piss off some instructor, you will have to wait in PAT platoon from anywhere between 2 weeks to almost 2 years (i was in PAT almost 2 years!).  In PAT Platoon you just sit there in a room all day long, not allowed to leave or go anywhere or do anything, bored out of your mind, wasting your life and your time.  They don't tell you about this at the recruiting centres!  If you join, go to Basic Training, decide it is not for you, and request a Voluntary Release (quit), they then send you to PAT Platoon for at least 2 weeks before they let you leave.  If you injure yourself while on training it is even worse, as you will be sitting around doing nothing for months!  Anyone that thinks this is normal or acceptable is smoking some strong drugs!
 
military-guy said:
(i was in PAT almost 2 years!).

Why??? Hmmmmm....................... 2 years, eh.....................

In PAT Platoon you just sit there in a room all day long, not allowed to leave or go anywhere or do anything, bored out of your mind, wasting your life and your time.

I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely nothing you could do to prepare for your eventual continuation of training.

If you injure yourself while on training it is even worse, as you will be sitting around doing nothing for months!

So, with your wealth of knowledge and experience, what do you propose?  That they complete training with their peers, despite not being able to do the same training???

Anyone that thinks this is normal or acceptable is smoking some strong drugs!

Nice attitude.  "It's everyone else's fault.  I'm smarter than them all.  They don't know what they are doing.  What are they doing for ME."

I dunno..... maybe I have misunderstood your intent, but to me you sound bitter, spoiled, self-centered...........

 
While military-guy does come off as a bit rude, he does have some valid points about how bad St-Jean PAT platoon is.

When I arrived in the St-Jean PAT platoon last February, I think i met this gentleman. We became friends, as he is very likable and relaxed, he even had a good attitude towards the CF but, having spent two years on PAT i can understand how he vents his feelings here.

In PAT Platoon you just sit there in a room all day long, not allowed to leave or go anywhere or do anything, bored out of your mind, wasting your life and your time.

This is completely true... on a good day, you assembled rucksacks for two hours. Other than daily PT the rest of your time is spent in a room reading the QR and O's or whatever you could find in the St-Jean library.

The morale in this room is zero. Half of the room is angry because they got injured/failed a rifle test and they have to wait 3 months for the next BOTC, the other half is saying screw the CF, and waiting for their release. This does not help pass the time.

The worst part is the way you are treated on base: even though we're not on course Ocdt's on PAT in St-Jean are treated pretty badly by all passing instructors and other personnel. I understand that this is the norm while ON course, but while not on course, a little bit of humanness would be nice...

Myself, I was able to make the best of a bad situation, I'm still injured (recovering from related surgery) but I've been attached posted to Ottawa since late March and am enjoying the CF. I do however dread returning to St-Jean soon because I will likely be stuck in the same PAT platoon from Feb-May awaiting a course (if I'll heal in time for the Jan 17th BOTC).

As a side note, things were slightly better for the recruit PAT plt as they had new courses starting every week or two and didn't have to wait 3 months or more.
 
O.K. Thirsty, I'll take your word for it.  You say he is a gentleman......Roger that.

I accept the fact that I fired the first shot over the bow.....I'll even concede that I don't come here often enough to enforce the attitude I would like to see of the young and unindoctrinated..........My bad.

I gotta say though, If you want to shit in my pool you best have earned the right.  This Army isn't very big.  I work with soldiers every day.  I expect that young officers arriving from training are full of zeal and vigor.  My job is to rein'im in - not to kick him in the ass because he is not physically or mentally up to the task!

In today's ever-changing security environment one has to be up to the task of both risking one's life and the even greater burden of being responsible for the lives of others.

If 'one' can't make the best of a bad situation how TF can 'one' be expected to lead men in the profession of arms?
 
I feel i need to add my 2 cents here,

Ther were quite a few individuals at CFSME ( when i was instructing there) that spent an undue amount of time in PAT pl..........i'll admit it.  BUT.......a very large group were doing it to themselves.  What these guys would do is everytime we would tell them " your SQ/QL3 starts on this date" they would promtly go to the MIR and get themselves on a T cat or somekind of chit so they would not have to go on course.....they got used to being lazy and wanted to stay that way.  I was happy the day some of these guys were released !!

I'm sorry you were stuck in a room....but if you are going to be an officer then you should have been able to make the best of a bad situation. I sincerly hope never to have to work for officers with attitudes like that.  Reading the QR&O's is not a waste of time !  You got injured...sorry to hear that...you failed a riffle test......you should have prepared better.

Moral to all this:  You are supposed to be an officer....start acting like it
 
Like I said.. I did what I could in a bad situation and got a wonderful posting, as for him well... he's released.
 
Just curious, what MOC are you and where did you end up ?

Cheers
 
I think that the military needs to take a closer look at PAT platoon. It seemed to me that far too many people have fallen through the cracks and got stuck into PAT when they should be released or put straight back onto course. From my point of view, PAT, at least in St-Jean is being improperly utilized and the higher ups should do whatever it takes to expedite processing to get those people off PAT.
 
I would agree with that.  The recruiting system also needs to be improved in order to match up recruit serials to MOC schools as much as possible ( there are limits to what can be acheived there).
 
the reserve unit im joining says that ill be in PAT platoon till the BMQ starts in the summer, or whenever. surely they wont have us show up every week, knowing nothing to sit in a room with others doing and knowing nothing, what is a reserve PAT like? ......anyone?
 
Hey Guys. a little blip from Crazy EyEz.
I was on pat at st.jean for almost 4 months, with injuries, and it is seriousally understaffed, the staff try their best to get people out or back on course asap.
altho, pat there is mundane, same shit different day, the MEGA is structured for a 10 week hard dose of military"ethos" but after a prolonged dose is not conductive to positive mental attitude, I got shit on every day,,,,guarenteed. and not just because of the sunglasses, the place is crawling with instructors, that know the pat people and they watch for us to fuck up, so they can "jack us up" it gets a little old after more than 10 weeks pass, its enough punishment watching your new bestfriends get on the bus at 7am in the green break area after grad. brutal troops....brutal
anyhoo, anyone who wants to rant about cflrs, i have lots of stories
 
When I was on PAT in St. Jean we had an excellent Sergeant running PAT platoon.  PAT can be a complete waste of time if you make it that, or it could be a pretty fulfilling experience.  There are times when you have to sit in the room.  We had tea and toast, visits to the MIR, and PT everyday.  We were tasked out a lot, whether it was admin work, helping out at the QM, etc.  If you know you're gonna be there a while you can ask for attach posting.  You can even apply for courses that you are physically able to complete like recruiting.  A couple of the officer-cadets were given attach postings to Toronto as recruiting officers.  I did not feel we were treated poorly while on PAT.  Just take advantage of your time in PAT, don't fret too much about it being a downer, instead spend your energy getting physically fit to go back on course.
 
look buddy, i dont know what base you were at but. REC. pat and OCDT pat are 2 totally different things,,, ocdts are treated much better than rec. pat platoon.
constant barrage of mental road blocks........bad memories......
 
Looks like there's two sides of the fence in this one....I agree that some people in the PAT platoons are malingers that do not want to work or were ill prepared for course.  Obviously, some people have serious injuries and were removed from course for that reason.  The CF is going to recruit according to the PM 5000 more personnel. How are we going to be prepared for this influx, especially in technical trades where the QL3 is longer?  Reduced standards, more schools taking instructors away from the units increasing the workload on those left behind, letting people pass that shouldn't to fill the quota.  I am tired of receiving and seeing soldiers and worst of all officers come through the system because of numbers. Fail them, let them stay in the PAT platoon, release them or send them to the other trades.  Although I was lucky enough not to end up in a PAT platoon, I do understand the sense of hopelessness and despair.  Don't always wait for the staff to come to you with something to do as administering personnel that are releasing, injured, and with a wealth of other problems is a fulltime job in its own right.  We cannot afford to tie all kinds of resources up to PAT sitting when do not have enough qualified trainers.  If you are going to be there long enough take an OPME, sew, stay away from the ones with the bad attitude. Volunteer to teach lectures on the QR & Os, I don't know, just change the mindset.
 
IMHO Pat in St Jean was garbage.

I was medically recoursed due to back issues off of my course. Thankfully they are since on the mend, and I was cleared medically before release to enable re-enrollment.

Since I was not appreciating the RMC way of things, and was having financial difficulties, I was told it was impossible to transfer to ROTP civi-u, but to VR and re-enroll after 6 months.  Told by several staff, and the Major who interviewed me on exit more or less recommended this or the reserves as well as a better option.

All said and told, Im still pissed that I didnt get to finish my BOTP. My Pl Cmd was an a--hole but he had the best intentions and had I not been concerned (along with several docs) with my back spasms, I Would have pushed heavily to complete at least BOTP.

At any rate, I ended up sitting on PAT for a month. There are, however ways to get yourself off of it. Attachecd postings to CFRC's (although you have to do the leg work, my PO straight up told me he could care less, had no time, if I wanted to call around, go ahead).  which I would have done, but as I said I Was leaving....
Anyway.. you do go through hell there. Esp in the days of instructors in Cadpat and recruits not, it was easy to tell who to pick on.

Ive even heard many stories where 2Lts, who have come back to St Jean for SLT have been jacked up by instructor staff, I guess they didnt recognize the thicker line.


Anyway, PAT could use some work at St Jean esp. the only work available was in the QM, and usually only a few got to go. You were not allowed to do much else, even if you asked...  I did a few taskings for the SLTS but only because I had been there once and was helpful.....

It is a highly negative environment though, and the information flow is particularly bad, and since you have nothign to do even the most devoted recruits/ocdts get worn down hearing about their friends getting screwed all day.
 
you said it all, ya anyone who spends time on pat with something broken goes down the spiral eventually
 
;D
Hummmm PAT Pl...man have I got some stories!!!

I was injured (seriously)  fall 2003 while on basic (NCM) and was recoursed in The beginning of week eight.  I left my family (Husband and Son) to go to basic for a few short months that turned out to be close to eight months.  And yes, all in St Jean

In those eight months I had seen my son once and my Husband twice.  That in itself was hard.  I was in a wheelchair, graduated to crutches, then to a cane, then on 2 feet.  I have not been able to run since. 

Besides having to deal with my (ongoing) injury, yes I am still in and yes the Forces is my life, there were so many other issues I had to deal with while on pat.  The first issue was the negativity.  I found that after crying every single day for 2 or more weeks, and listening to the stories about how you were a dirtbag because you were on PAT, and missing my family, and taking wads of pills, I made a choice.  I could either S**T or GET.  IOW suck it up, get healthy and get on platoon or quit.  I chose to stay.  I also made alot of changes in how I looked at things while on PAT.  I tried to learn everything I could about how things worked, not the stuff they teach you in basic, but how it really works.  How a good attitude gets you farther than a bad one, how to shine my boots properly, how to make one heck of a bed so when I did get back on platoon I would shine. 

I approached new people that would come to pat and try to tell them and guide them on how things worked, where to go , who to talk to, what to do if you needed something...etc... this gave me something to do, i got to meet new people, and it made me learn new things too.

I am not going to blow sunshine up your butt and tell you it was all great.  It wasnt.  there were days I did not think I could take one more inspection (4x per week) or days I could not bear to see another graduation that I was not on.  The hardest to watch is always your own platoon.  The hardest days were when I was working at the green desk and have a SGT say to another..."no you can keep the change from the coffee...just give it to the Private, its for her Pat PL Retirement fund."  Yes some people look down on you  some are even ignorant and arrogant enough to say it out loud.  There are some people that I know that are still there (since Sept 2003)  I think they are afraid to move on.  Some, granted, are lazy. 

There are no courses offered on Pat Pl.  I asked repeatedly, the answer was always a firm no.  No ruck marching, no "classtime type" classes.  Nothing.  It's not that the troops don't want it, they just are not allowed.  and to answer the big question "what about reading the QRand Os?  you have to request them, you have to tell them why you want them, and they will try to solve your problem without you looking at them.  but I have read the First Aid Manual 2 doz times.  No we are not allowed to read books, magazines (unless it is CF issued) even library books.  I had to sneak to the library to get a card so I could read at night. 

When I started to walk again I had to wear sneakers with my combats and it was humilitaing, and I did not need and instructor point it out to me in front of the non Pat Troops.  I hated wearing the big yellow "A", I hated the white room.  But I have never been anywhere that I have learned so much about what I am capable of and what others are capable of.

So Now I am here in Borden.  On Pat Pl.  it is nothing like St Jean.  We sit outside in tents.  Play cards.  Have our careers messed with. 
It is h*ll.  Truly H*ll. 

I hope I can make it through this one.  If I can do this, I can do anything.

But with a bad leg I can't do SQ, and without SQ I can't get a QL3 course.  Don't look down on me, us, them.  Most of us are trying our guts out.  If you have not been there you have nothing to say. 
:cdn:
 
lostlittle1 said:
;D
Hummmm PAT Pl...man have I got some stories!!!

I was injured (seriously)   fall 2003 while on basic (NCM) and was recoursed in The beginning of week eight.   I left my family (Husband and Son) to go to basic for a few short months that turned out to be close to eight months.   And yes, all in St Jean

In those eight months I had seen my son once and my Husband twice.   That in itself was hard.   I was in a wheelchair, graduated to crutches, then to a cane, then on 2 feet.   I have not been able to run since.  

Besides having to deal with my (ongoing) injury, yes I am still in and yes the Forces is my life, there were so many other issues I had to deal with while on pat.   The first issue was the negativity.   I found that after crying every single day for 2 or more weeks, and listening to the stories about how you were a dirtbag because you were on PAT, and missing my family, and taking wads of pills, I made a choice.   I could either S**T or GET.   IOW suck it up, get healthy and get on platoon or quit.   I chose to stay.   I also made alot of changes in how I looked at things while on PAT.   I tried to learn everything I could about how things worked, not the stuff they teach you in basic, but how it really works.   How a good attitude gets you farther than a bad one, how to shine my boots properly, how to make one heck of a bed so when I did get back on platoon I would shine.  

I approached new people that would come to pat and try to tell them and guide them on how things worked, where to go , who to talk to, what to do if you needed something...etc... this gave me something to do, i got to meet new people, and it made me learn new things too.

I am not going to blow sunshine up your butt and tell you it was all great.   It wasnt.   there were days I did not think I could take one more inspection (4x per week) or days I could not bear to see another graduation that I was not on.   The hardest to watch is always your own platoon.   The hardest days were when I was working at the green desk and have a SGT say to another..."no you can keep the change from the coffee...just give it to the Private, its for her Pat PL Retirement fund."   Yes some people look down on you   some are even ignorant and arrogant enough to say it out loud.   There are some people that I know that are still there (since Sept 2003)   I think they are afraid to move on.   Some, granted, are lazy.  

There are no courses offered on Pat Pl.   I asked repeatedly, the answer was always a firm no.   No ruck marching, no "classtime type" classes.   Nothing.   It's not that the troops don't want it, they just are not allowed.   and to answer the big question "what about reading the QRand Os?   you have to request them, you have to tell them why you want them, and they will try to solve your problem without you looking at them.   but I have read the First Aid Manual 2 doz times.   No we are not allowed to read books, magazines (unless it is CF issued) even library books.   I had to sneak to the library to get a card so I could read at night.    

When I started to walk again I had to wear sneakers with my combats and it was humilitaing, and I did not need and instructor point it out to me in front of the non Pat Troops.   I hated wearing the big yellow "A", I hated the white room.   But I have never been anywhere that I have learned so much about what I am capable of and what others are capable of.

So Now I am here in Borden.   On Pat Pl.   it is nothing like St Jean.   We sit outside in tents.   Play cards.   Have our careers messed with.  
It is h*ll.   Truly H*ll.  

I hope I can make it through this one.   If I can do this, I can do anything.

But with a bad leg I can't do SQ, and without SQ I can't get a QL3 course.   Don't look down on me, us, them.   Most of us are trying our guts out.   If you have not been there you have nothing to say.  
:cdn:

Your story is a familiar one.   I used to have students who ended up in your situation and i sympathise.   PAT has a bad reputation, i'm sure that if you look around , you will see a few examples of the reason why.   This being said, i can olny apologise for the way Senior NCOs behaved in your "green desk cofee fund" example.   Behaviour like this brings discredit upon all NCOs and is deplorable.   I would like to assure you that this is not the standard you should expect from your leadership. There are productive things for PAT personel to do, and if you have requested to do them (i.e. reading regulations manuals) then it is a failiure of leadership to not allow you to do it. 

On that note, i wish you the best of luck, i know it is hard sometimes but stick it out !
 
lostlittle1 said:
;D
Hummmm PAT Pl...man have I got some stories!!!

I was injured (seriously)   fall 2003 while on basic (NCM) and was recoursed in The beginning of week eight.   I left my family (Husband and Son) to go to basic for a few short months that turned out to be close to eight months.   And yes, all in St Jean

In those eight months I had seen my son once and my Husband twice.   That in itself was hard.   I was in a wheelchair, graduated to crutches, then to a cane, then on 2 feet.   I have not been able to run since.  

Besides having to deal with my (ongoing) injury, yes I am still in and yes the Forces is my life, there were so many other issues I had to deal with while on pat.   The first issue was the negativity.   I found that after crying every single day for 2 or more weeks, and listening to the stories about how you were a dirtbag because you were on PAT, and missing my family, and taking wads of pills, I made a choice.   I could either S**T or GET.   IOW suck it up, get healthy and get on platoon or quit.   I chose to stay.   I also made alot of changes in how I looked at things while on PAT.   I tried to learn everything I could about how things worked, not the stuff they teach you in basic, but how it really works.   How a good attitude gets you farther than a bad one, how to shine my boots properly, how to make one heck of a bed so when I did get back on platoon I would shine.  

I approached new people that would come to pat and try to tell them and guide them on how things worked, where to go , who to talk to, what to do if you needed something...etc... this gave me something to do, i got to meet new people, and it made me learn new things too.

I am not going to blow sunshine up your butt and tell you it was all great.   It wasnt.   there were days I did not think I could take one more inspection (4x per week) or days I could not bear to see another graduation that I was not on.   The hardest to watch is always your own platoon.   The hardest days were when I was working at the green desk and have a SGT say to another..."no you can keep the change from the coffee...just give it to the Private, its for her Pat PL Retirement fund."   Yes some people look down on you   some are even ignorant and arrogant enough to say it out loud.   There are some people that I know that are still there (since Sept 2003)   I think they are afraid to move on.   Some, granted, are lazy.  

There are no courses offered on Pat Pl.   I asked repeatedly, the answer was always a firm no.   No ruck marching, no "classtime type" classes.   Nothing.   It's not that the troops don't want it, they just are not allowed.   and to answer the big question "what about reading the QRand Os?   you have to request them, you have to tell them why you want them, and they will try to solve your problem without you looking at them.   but I have read the First Aid Manual 2 doz times.   No we are not allowed to read books, magazines (unless it is CF issued) even library books.   I had to sneak to the library to get a card so I could read at night.    

When I started to walk again I had to wear sneakers with my combats and it was humilitaing, and I did not need and instructor point it out to me in front of the non Pat Troops.   I hated wearing the big yellow "A", I hated the white room.   But I have never been anywhere that I have learned so much about what I am capable of and what others are capable of.

So Now I am here in Borden.   On Pat Pl.   it is nothing like St Jean.   We sit outside in tents.   Play cards.   Have our careers messed with.  
It is h*ll.   Truly H*ll.  

I hope I can make it through this one.   If I can do this, I can do anything.

But with a bad leg I can't do SQ, and without SQ I can't get a QL3 course.   Don't look down on me, us, them.   Most of us are trying our guts out.   If you have not been there you have nothing to say.  
:cdn:

Yes your story seems very familar, I was also on PAT PL, in I think it was in May 2004 in St. Jean CFLRS, I know all to well about the countless hours of shinning boots, and staring up at the clock waiting for lunch then supper...ect Except and if you were on PAT when I was you'd remember me, I had to take care of this asain girl that joined our ranks due to contracting the chicken pox. I was volunteered to take care of her, becuase I was immune to it. I had to bring her breakfast, lunch, and dinner..do her luandry, and fetch anything else she required, books, canteen suplies, meds, notes, ect... also I had to check on her every 2 hours during the day. I had no real problem doing any of this, except for the small embarassment of walking from the green halls all the way to the other side of the MEGA and back with a tray from the Caff.

Good times though..I think If your who I think you are I remember you, I remember you had to wear running shoes with your uniform.

Needless to say PAT Pl was embarassing, degrading, and very frusterating...
 
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