All Things Vegetarian/Vegan (merged)

[sarahsmom]

Hey, I'm new to the forum and I recently took interest in the navy. I always wanted to be in the military but only ever paid attention to the army until now

My question is for anyone, vegan or non vegan in the navy, is it possible?  I've been having a really hard time imagining myself going back to eating meat, dairy or eggs. If it is possible,  what could I possibly eat?

I have researched some food in the navy and it looks as if I would only live off of potatoes and some veggies, which is fine. But do they serve these foods every night?  Would I be in a position where I would have to give in? I would be okay with a compromise every now and then but not daily.

Thanks.

The navy gets its food from the same place the army and the air force do. It's been stated before, if you read through from the start of this thread, unless you are vegan for religious reasons, the military will not accommodate you. And even with religious reasons, sometimes the accommodations are not what you are expecting.
While some kind of veggies are served every day, I'm pretty sure there is butter or cream (dairy) used in just about all the prep. Very rarely do I remember ever seeing just plain steamed veggies or potatoes.
And field rations are often NOT vegan friendly, even if they might be vegetarian friendly. I remember looking forward to end-ex so I could see a green veggie on my plate once again.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Hey, I'm new to the forum and I recently took interest in the navy. I always wanted to be in the military but only ever paid attention to the army until now

My question is for anyone, vegan or non vegan in the navy, is it possible?  I've been having a really hard time imagining myself going back to eating meat, dairy or eggs. If it is possible,  what could I possibly eat?

I have researched some food in the navy and it looks as if I would only live off of potatoes and some veggies, which is fine. But do they serve these foods every night?  Would I be in a position where I would have to give in? I would be okay with a compromise every now and then but not daily.

Thanks.

You've got ten pages of the subject to read here, before you ask any more questions about it.

---Staff---

 

[Pusser]

The navy gets its food from the same place the army and the air force do. It's been stated before, if you read through from the start of this thread, unless you are vegan for religious reasons, the military will not accommodate you. And even with religious reasons, sometimes the accommodations are not what you are expecting.
While some kind of veggies are served every day, I'm pretty sure there is butter or cream (dairy) used in just about all the prep. Very rarely do I remember ever seeing just plain steamed veggies or potatoes.
And field rations are often NOT vegan friendly, even if they might be vegetarian friendly. I remember looking forward to end-ex so I could see a green veggie on my plate once again.

No.  CF food services do not accommodate for religious reasons.  This does not mean we force Jews or Muslims to eat pork and for the most part, our standard menu planning practices (e.g. choice of three main courses) will enable people to avoid certain foods and still eat, but we do not specifically accommodate for religious diets.  We do not keep kosher or hel-al kitchens.  In other words, if one wishes to not eat pork, one can do so without going hungry, but if you want a kosher meal, you can pretty much forget it.

The only things we accommodate for in food services are medical requirements.

 

[Brasidas]

I remember a mess dinner about three years back where the RSVPs had three meal options, beef/chicken/vegetarian, and one vegetarian private got her meal preference "satisfied" by just lots more side salad.

 

[Harris]

I have researched some food in the navy and it looks as if I would only live off of potatoes and some veggies, which is fine. But do they serve these foods every night?  Would I be in a position where I would have to give in? I would be okay with a compromise every now and then but not daily.

OK, I wanted to resist, but I cannot.

First off are you vegan, or not?  Your quote above seems to imply you are vegan sometimes, but if that makes eating too hard, then you "give in", and eat non-vegan items.  Isn't that like saying your, "kind of pregnant"?  I admit, I don't see what the big deal is with eating meat and meat products, but to appear to do so only when it is convenient seems odd to me.

Here it is up straight for all of you non-meat eaters (and by products etc...).  If you join the CAF and stay in long enough to actually do your job and deploy to the field, on the sea, or in the air, I can pretty much guarantee that at some point your options for a meal will be what is put on the table in front of you (via mess, haybox, IMP, or locally sourced food), or go without.  Possibly for many days in a row.  If you are OK with this, then by all means come on in.

True story follows:

During a course I was an instructor on, many of the foreign students couldn't eat pork for religious reasons.  We requested a non-pork substitute for their meals and the kitchen said they could provide at least one selection each meal as a pork free option.  For breakfast they offered both pork and turkey bacon.  About 5 weeks into the course the kitchen pulled an instructor aside and said they had to cancel the turkey bacon.  The reason was because when they read the ingredients carefully, they noticed that pork was one of the ingredients.  OPPS.  The students had to go without for the remainder of the course as an alternate could not be found.  I know for a fact that these types of issues happens quite often.

If you have a moral, ethical, or whatever else reason that drives you to not eat meat, then perhaps the CAF is not for you.  I hear this place is looking for a few good men/women: http://edenvillage.net/13.HTM

Bottom line is you will never be guaranteed a vegan, halal, kosher, etc... meal in the CAF.  The staff will try to accommodate whenever possible, but don't pin your hopes and dreams on it.

 

[Brasidas]

...your options for a meal will be what is put on the table in front of you (via mess, haybox, IMP, or locally sourced food), or go without.  Possibly for many days in a row.  If you are OK with this, then by all means come on in....

Except that shouldn't be an option, as it compromises the mission.

If I've got two troops to get two troops' worth of work done, including heavy labour, and the food isn't vegan, is it ok for my one vegan troop to just eat the crackers and apple from their box lunch? Maybe they get weak, maybe they get less sharp, and one of the two gets hurt because of their conscientious decision? Nine day exercise, they're going to be tired and short on sleep as it is. Add hunger on top of that, and they're ineffective.

Likewise, if I've got three troops, knowing that the one isn't going to be good for hard tasks by the end of the ex, I get to manage my mission around their personal preferences. I have to task the other two with the hard labour jobs to be effective and avoid injury.

Folks that I've worked with who are effective are the ones who remind their chain of command on multiple occasions, each time they go on an exercise or tasking, of their dietary concerns. Then, when things get screwed up, they deal as best they can. When it comes down to it, they eat when and what they have to.

Vegans and vegetarians who are incapable of adapting need not apply. Everybody will come out better that way.

 

[Harris]

You've summed up my intent 100%.  I couldn't find a sarcasm smiley for that line in my post.

Everyone needs to do their fair share of the work.  If you can't do that because you have some objection to food, light, or some other issue, then please reconsider your prospects with the CAF.  Otherwise all you will be doing is making it harder for everyone else.

 

[CountDC]

I am quite sure that it is really impossible to get a true kosher meal in the military, the best you can hope for is to get a none pork showing option.  Even when I have asked for eggs, no bacon it has often been on the same grill with the same utensils used so guess what - small amount of pork on it.

I like how for IMPs kosher is lumped in with the vegeterian meals.  As such in a unit that has members regularly reminding them of dietary requirements there is no excuse not to have IMPs available for those members to eat.  I know I can walk down to my QM right now and he will have the kosher/vegeterian in stock just in case needed.  How hard is it really to include a box or two in your orders when stocking the shelves. 

On ship it is easier to stick to a vegetarian or vegan diet than in the field as there is a full kitchen with a good stock of rations but it may involve eating the same salads quite often (and being called bugs while offered a carrot).

Ultimately be prepared to make do the best you can - the only rule I have stuck to is not eating any visible pork.  No pork chops, hot dogs (military ones always have pork in my experience), ham, bacon, sausages (unless true turkey bacon/sausages which do exist but are hard to find and I do read the package).  Easy enough as there is always other choices available. 

 

[mariomike]

I am quite sure that it is really impossible to get a true kosher meal in the military, the best you can hope for is to get a none pork showing option. 

Something I read in another discussion here may be relevant,

FOOD
"During wartime religious tenants regarding the eating of prohibited foods can be waived. I‘m not sure if this would or would not apply for training exercises or deployments but for those in this situation guidance from an Imam and/or Rabbi should clarify it."
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12950/post-55299.html#msg55299
Reply #7

Individuals might ( in some situations ) choose to be flexible in their vegetarian/vegan preferences.

 

[LayeSone]

Thanks for all of the replies. I have looked through the thread but I didn't find any info specific to the navy. I will admit to skipping quite a few posts due the the whole meat eater vs veg argument that came up. I may have missed something and I'm sorry if I did.

I am vegan at the moment and I never "cheat". I was just wondering if I could remain vegan or if I would have to become vegetarian if I joined the navy.
I have spoken to vegans in and out of the military and they all (surprisingly) convinced me to apply anyway,  even if it means comprising my morals.

They said (military guys/gals) that they had to eat vegetarian when they couldn't eat vegan and have yet to be in a position where they had to eat  meat.

I will eat vegan when I can, and if I can't I will eat vegetarian. I don't know how the navy works but if I'm in a position where I absolutely have to eat meat, I don't know  what I would do. I haven't eaten the stuff in so long, it would be equivalent to the average Candian eating a dog or cat. I wouldn't be surprised if it made me sick as well. I guess when I get in,  I'll just "go with the flow"

Again, thanks for the replies.

 

[Brasidas]

Thanks for all of the replies. I have looked through the thread but I didn't find any info specific to the navy. I will admit to skipping quite a few posts due the the whole meat eater vs veg argument that came up. I may have missed something and I'm sorry if I did.

I am vegan at the moment and I never "cheat". I was just wondering if I could remain vegan or if I would have to become vegetarian if I joined the navy.
I have spoken to vegans in and out of the military and they all (surprisingly) convinced me to apply anyway,  even if it means comprising my morals.

They said (military guys/gals) that they had to eat vegetarian when they couldn't eat vegan and have yet to be in a position where they had to eat  meat.

I will eat vegan when I can, and if I can't I will eat vegetarian. I don't know how the navy works but if I'm in a position where I absolutely have to eat meat, I don't know  what I would do. I haven't eaten the stuff in so long, it would be equivalent to the average Candian eating a dog or cat. I wouldn't be surprised if it made me sick as well. I guess when I get in,  I'll just "go with the flow"

Again, thanks for the replies.

Then expect not to be surprised. I've eaten at navy mess halls for weeks at a time, with menus just like those in army bases across the country. I know that you've skipped posts. Refer to Pusser's post about potatoes sometimes being the only vegetarian dish available; he's navy. Likewise, all services use the same field rations. There are special vegetarian/kosher/halal packs, that usually have to be specially requested and may not be stocked. Few of the field rations are vegetarian, let alone vegan. Boxed lunches are another stream that you'll get, and I've rarely seen a vegetarian one, and some of the few times that I have, it gets mixed up with the others and handed out to one of the dozens of other guys by mistake.

You're usually going to be eating food from a mess hall while at shore or ship's kitchen at sea. While on course, especially at the beginning of your career, you're rarely going to have options to go out and by your own meal or keep food where you live. As Harris and I said, if you're not eating a proper meal, you're ineffective, and if the only proper meals that are available aren't vegetarian... My comment of "...and today's vegetarian option: fish" wasn't flippant humour, it was an actual listing off of Wainwright's vegetarian option on the menu on a given day.

 

[LayeSone]

I've been speaking to vegans/vegetarians who served and they are giving me tips on how to get by.
I'll try to manage.  Others have managed before me regardless of the trouble they may have run into. If they can make it work,  I can make it work.

 

[mariomike]

I've been speaking to vegans/vegetarians who served and they are giving me tips on how to get by.
I'll try to manage.  Others have managed before me regardless of the trouble they may have run into. If they can make it work,  I can make it work.

They used to send us into the old slaughterhouses in the Junction from time to time for industrial accidents. The animals came in by railway. It was the busiest abattoir in Canada. ( It's just another big box shopping mall now. Like it never existed. ) 

If going inside that place wouldn't turn you into a Vegetarian, nothing would. 

 

[CountDC]

Something I read in another discussion here may be relevant,

FOOD
"During wartime religious tenants regarding the eating of prohibited foods can be waived. I‘m not sure if this would or would not apply for training exercises or deployments but for those in this situation guidance from an Imam and/or Rabbi should clarify it."

In general the Rabbi side has agreed that eating of prohibited foods can be waived if a life is at risk so depending on the circumstances it could apply to training exercises.  Going 4 days without food because it isn't kosher and you are a driver puts peoples life at risk.

For the OP - navy you can make it as vegetarian but I think vegan would be hard.  Basically there is enough options every meal so that you do not have to eat meat and I am sure you would have no problem finding someone willing to eat your steak.

 

 

[Ningen]

Good morning, friends:

I cannot describe the happiness and anxiety that I feel now that I am two weeks away from going to BMQ. I just found out yesterday!!!

I am Vegan and have been for a long time. It is a lifestyle that I have adopted and am completely satisfied with. I understand that there are Vegetarian MRE's for the recruits, however they are not Vegan as they contain dairy and egg products.

Please give me your advice as to how can I survive BMQ. I want to stay true to myself and not go astray of the path that I have chosen. What should I do, friends? Please help me!

Regards,
Ningen

 

[211RadOp]

Here is where you can start looking.  11 pages on Vegetarian/Vegan

http://army.ca/forums/threads/30884.0.html

Looking back, Brihard pointed you to that thread back in May.

 

[Loachman]

You asked the same question in May of this year, in the thread with which I am about to merge this one, and received a few answers. Do you think that anything has changed in the CF ration world since?

MREs (US field rations) are not normally used by the CF. We use IMPs, which are Canadian made.

You are going to have to adapt or change your career choice.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do and how you choose to do it.

And, now that I have merged these two threads, I see that your previous post, to which I referred above, was merged into this one back then. Please do not continue to start new threads on the same topic. It won't get you any different answers.

 

[MedCorps]

Please give me your advice as to how can I survive BMQ. I want to stay true to myself and not go astray of the path that I have chosen. What should I do, friends? Please help me!

A great part of joining the Profession of Arms and going to BMQ is becoming acculturated to the military way of life and quirky culture. Part of this acculturation is learning that you are less important than the organization, and that staying true to the organization will become staying true unto yourself. Sounds crazy... I know! It is a strange concept for you now, but assuming you make it suitably far into BMQ you will have an epiphany (likely when you have not slept much, cold, calorie deprived and are on fire piquet at 3 am).

You will soon find that the organization will keep you on the path to righteousness and will not lead you astray. You will need not worry about this any longer.

Good luck on BMQ.

MC