Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Occam]

Good news for many people, including us Ottawawawawans.

R 081701Z APR 10
FM NDHQ CMP OTTAWA
TO CANFORGEN
BT
UNCLAS CANFORGEN 084/10 CMP 039/10
SIC WAS
SUBJ: POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL UPDATE
BILINGUAL MESSAGE / MESSAGE BILINGUE
SUBJ: POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL - UPDATE
REFS: A. CBI 205.45 (POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL)
B. CBI 205.452 (TRANSITIONAL POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL)
1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO INFORM YOU OF THE STATUS OF THE
POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL (PLD) ALLOWANCE
2. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, PLD AND TPLD RATES WILL REMAIN AT THEIR
2009/10 LEVELS. PLD IS UNDER CONTINUOUS REVIEW TO ENSURE THAT IT IS
A PRACTICAL AND REASONABLE SUPPORT MEASURE FOR CF PERSONNEL
3. PERSONNEL ARE REMINDED THAT PLD IS SEPARATE FROM PAY AND IS
INTENDED ONLY AS A CUSHION AGAINST EXPENSES INCURRED WHILE LIVING IN
A HIGH COST OF LIVING AREA. ACCORDINGLY PLD SHOULD NOT BE FACTORED
IN WHEN MAKING FINANCIAL COMMITMENTS
4. SIGNED BY MGEN W. SEMIANIW, CMP

 

[Grunt_031]

2. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, PLD AND TPLD RATES WILL REMAIN AT THEIR
2009/10 LEVELS. PLD IS UNDER CONTINUOUS REVIEW TO ENSURE THAT IT IS
A PRACTICAL AND REASONABLE SUPPORT MEASURE FOR CF PERSONNEL
3. PERSONNEL ARE REMINDED THAT PLD IS SEPARATE FROM PAY AND IS
INTENDED ONLY AS A CUSHION AGAINST EXPENSES INCURRED WHILE LIVING IN
A HIGH COST OF LIVING AREA. ACCORDINGLY PLD SHOULD NOT BE FACTORED
IN WHEN MAKING FINANCIAL COMMITMENTS

Veiled speech for it is going to disappear in these tight financial times for the CF.

 

[CountDC]

Thanks Grunt - p*ss on our parade.  ;D

My pay actually ended up as an increase because of this change - I get an extra $10 per pay.  Until they pull the rug.

 

[gcclarke]

Don't they include that particular little paragraph (or words to that effect) in every single message concerning PLD? I mean, yes, the fact of the matter is that it could disappear at any moment, should the decision be made from on high (Treasury Board?). A little warning that one should not, for example, purchase a house expensive enough that you won't be able to afford your mortgage if PLD is reduced or eliminated doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is actually planning on doing so. After all, methinks that doing so would be, politically speaking, a very unwise move for any government that decides to do so.

 

[CountDC]

...... if PLD is reduced or eliminated doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is actually planning on doing so. After all, methinks that doing so would be, politically speaking, a very unwise move for any government that decides to do so.

Ummmm  Do we really have to??  ;D

 

[jallam]

I did a search for "Comox PLD" and only came up with old posts.

Does anyone know the current PLD  rate if any for the Comox Area?

PM me please if you can help to point me in the right direction.

 

[PMedMoe]

I don't even see Comox on the list:

PLD rates

 

[perry]

Comox does not get PLD.

 

[Occam]

I don't even see Comox on the list:

PLD rates

You don't see it because it's not there. 

 

[PMedMoe]

You don't see it because it's not there. 

Well, I didn't want to assume! 

 

[aesop081]

current PLD  rate if any for the Comox Area?

Rate for Comox is ZERO.

 

[krustyrl]

Yes and THAT bites...I'm posted there this APS .!        :rage:



Oh..well.!

 

[Occam]

Yes and THAT bites...I'm posted there this APS .!        :rage:

Yes, it sure bites to be posted to an area that's been deemed to be less costly than the benchmark CF posting.  ???

I think the purpose of PLD has been lost on some along the way.  It's supposed to compensate you for being posted to higher-than-norm cost of living areas.  If you're in an area which pays high PLD, it means you have higher expenses.  I'm not sure where this disappointment comes from when people get posted to a no or low PLD area.

 

[krustyrl]

Interesting Occam...where was this info located and deemed by whom.? 

 

[Occam]

Interesting Occam...where was this info located and deemed by whom.?

Everything you wanted to know about PLD but were afraid to ask

The Post Living Differential (PLD) program was introduced on 1 April 2000 to provide a mechanism to stabilize the cost of living of Canadian Forces (CF) members and families, serving in Canada, with respect to regional differences. PLD provides a means for a CF family to enjoy a relative and predictable standard of living no matter where they serve in Canada. The original PLD methodology was developed in the mid-late 90’s; however, the economic conditions under which the previous methodology was derived, roughly a decade ago, are no longer relevant in today’s environment. Following an intensive review, a new PLD methodology has been approved by Treasury Board effective 1 July 2007. Measures have also been approved by Treasury Board to ease the transition to the new methodology.

 

[ballz]

Yes, it sure bites to be posted to an area that's been deemed to be less costly than the benchmark CF posting.  ???

I think the purpose of PLD has been lost on some along the way.  It's supposed to compensate you for being posted to higher-than-norm cost of living areas.  If you're in an area which pays high PLD, it means you have higher expenses.  I'm not sure where this disappointment comes from when people get posted to a no or low PLD area.

My guess is the "somewhere" you speak of is whatever calculations they use to decide that it's more a crapload more expensive to live in Halifax than St. John's, or Toronto than Edmonton, etc etc...

I have friends getting around 650 for living in Halifax, yet I'm getting 149 in St. John's, despite higher housing and gas prices, and most other things that involve shipping (aka groceries). That kind of thing makes a person in my shoes think of it more as extra cash versus something that off-sets costs.

I don't know what goes into the calculations obviously, but this is what the naked eye sees.

EDIT: typo's...

 

[Occam]

My guess is the "somewhere" you speak of is whatever calculations they use to decide that it's more a crapload more expensive to live in Halifax than St. John's, or Toronto than Edmonton, etc etc...

I have friends getting around 650 for living in Halifax, yet I'm getting 149 in St. John's, despite higher housing and gas prices, and most other things that involve shipping (aka groceries). That kind of thing makes a person in my shoes think of it more as extra cash versus something that off-sets costs.

I don't know what goes into the calculations obviously, but this is what the naked eye sees.

EDIT: typo's...

On what information are you basing your belief that housing is more expensive in St. John's than in Halifax?  Property taxes in St. John's vs. Halifax?  Provincial income tax rates? 

I believe you may find your answer in those criteria.

 

[ballz]

Real estate:

http://www.stjohnsrealestateonline.com/ says

St. John’s Real Estate:
Average Sale Price is St. John’s: $266,336 for the month of March and the 12 month average $243,532
Mount Pearl Real Estate:
Average Sale Price (12 month average): $221,094
Paradise Real Estate:
Average Sale Price (12 month average): $271,002

and apparently from the Royal Lepage House Price Survey http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/April2010/08/c8713.html

"The average price of detached bungalows in Halifax increased by 13.9 per cent (to $246,833) over last year, while standard condominiums increased by 6.1 per cent (to $169,250) and standard two-storey homes were up 6.8 per cent (to $278,267).

which more or less agrees with this one http://www.livingin-canada.com/house-prices-canada.html which says $242k for Halifax.

Property tax: I have no idea about property taxes or the significance of them (since I've never paid them). This could be either way how drastic of a difference could it make on one's yearly income (I ask out of genuine ignorance)?

Income tax: According to Canada Revenue Agency http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

Using taxable income of 50,000 and 75,000 and these rates

Newfoundland
7.7% on the first $31,278 of taxable income, +
12.8% on the next $31,278, +
15.5% on the amount over $62,556

Nova Scotia
8.79% on the first $29,590 of taxable income, +
14.95% on the next $29,590, +
16.67% on the next $33,820 +
17.5% on the amount over $93,000

Income tax paid in would be: Newfoundland (4804.83, 8340.81) and Nova Scotia (5652.26, 9661.86) for a difference (847.43, 1321.05). Obviously all this is subjective but it's a small difference. I think the difference would be smaller if you actually did the income tax up properly?

Fuel: Right now gas is about 7-8% higher. canadagasprices.com is an excellent tracking source for things about gas/fuel around Canada. One vehicle over the course of a year may not maybe a huge difference ($128/year for me) but like I said, it has an impact on the cost of groceries, shipping, etc.

To me the biggest thing is housing prices.

Either way, I don't see the big difference, and I was just answering your question as to where people began to forget that this was to "offset costs," from my own chair. That was all I was trying to do. I am sure, given the formula, I would be shown that Halifax is more expensive, I would just be interested in seeing exactly is considered in that formula and what isn't personally.

 

[krustyrl]

thx..

 

[Occam]

I guess it depends on where you get your data.  Real estate sources, such as CREA, have a vested interest in inflating prices.  If you look at MoneySense - they list the average cost of a house in St. John's as $176,500, while it's $234,000 in Halifax.

Using the information at Taxtips, someone earning $60,000 will pay almost $1000 more in NS than in NL.

As far as property taxes go, they're just another factor in the formula.  I looked around for hard data on property tax by city, and there is some but not much.  It points to Halifax being slightly more costly, while St. John's seems to be the lowest of the major Canadian cities.

I agree there is a bit of mystery as to how the rates are arrived at.  Halifax, for a brief period, was expecting to have their PLD erased.  When the actual figures came out, they got an increase from 300-odd to 600-odd bucks per month.  There were a lot of puzzled looks.

The methodology for PLD, and which factors affect it, can be found here.  The exact formula must be a closely guarded secret...  ;D