Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Sub_Guy]

I will have to sit and wait for the message, but it is probably safe to assume that Esquimalt won't be cut off the list!

 

[Timmy!]

I am guessing we will have to watch and shot. I don't believe anything unless I got a reference. I didn't hear anything during orders.

 

[radop215]

is there a website that details who gets what?
such as edmonton gets this rate for pld

 

[PO2FinClk]

Googled http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/dgcb/dppd/pld/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=8

 

[Barrel Nut]

Ummmmm I wonder in the CF could cut PLD at this point, it seems to me it would now be a condition of contract, which could cause another legal mess. Any Legal Begals out there?
Allowances are easily started but not always so easy to eliminate.  It would also generate bad press for the current government especially now that the $30 Billion taken from DND, RCMP and Public Service Pensions by the former government is before the courts.  The current Goven't seems to have gone to lengths to reconize the CF members, it would be a shame for them to allow another cut at our expense on the heels of the above pension raid.
So lets just take an over view of the entire situation: Strip 15 billion from the CF Pension fund and tell them theres not enough surplus in the plan, raise pension premiums to make it back, raise the retirement service to 25yrs vice 20 and next eliminate the PLD.  Is it just me or can anyone else see why recruiting may be having a hard time. 

 

[ammo618]

Geeez,

Everyone posted to the GTA/Toronto area will be jumping out their windows/crying to there career mangler for a posting if this unsubstaniated rumor has any truth. All of this "I got a briefing..." crap does is get people ,who may be affected, worked up & worried.  Rant ends... :

Ammo

 

[Stoker]

Geeez,

Everyone posted to the GTA/Toronto area will be jumping out their windows/crying to there career mangler for a posting if this unsubstaniated rumor has any truth. All of this "I got a briefing..." crap does is get people ,who may be affected, worked up & worried.  Rant ends... :

Ammo

This is the latest I have heard. The original amount of money for budgeted for PLD has skyrocketed up to about $90 million per year. This extra money had to come from some where, with the state of the military budgets right now, a new formula is coming out to calculate PLD rates. Apparently the first formula wasn't that great so the another formula is being created. The rates won't be increased, but will be decreased in all areas with the new formula. Look for the message around the 1st of April.

 

[ammo618]

Thanks for the info Stoker.  Hopefully the new formula will be easier to understand than the current one.

Ammo

 

[mudrecceman]

This is the latest I have heard. The original amount of money for budgeted for PLD has skyrocketed up to about $90 million per year. This extra money had to come from some where, with the state of the military budgets right now, a new formula is coming out to calculate PLD rates. Apparently the first formula wasn't that great so the another formula is being created. The rates won't be increased, but will be decreased in all areas with the new formula. Look for the message around the 1st of April.

So...as the cost of living (read fossil fuels and everything that is transported by them) increases...PLD will decrease.

Makes PERFECT military sense  ;D

 

[Barrel Nut]

Lets call it what it is: The Military and the RCMP have the same problem:  An Officer sits down and reviews the state of the CF members problems and comes up with the idea of how to bring in the PLD, he pulls it off, everyone is happy and he gets that promotional PER, gets promoted and moves on.  The next Officer comes in and trys to find a way to improve something so that he too can advance, but the guy before him spent alot and the chances of him doing the same just won't fly, so wait, I know how to save the Dept big $$ we'll start cutting the PLD, he too is a genius and gets the promotional PER in the bag, and the cycle continues, now sitting at a new system which will again save the Dept $$.

Did they forget about us on the receiving end, no they didn't, because it was never really about us.  Personally I feel the CF would be better served by standardizing the administration of the Forces through a non-military agency because as long as members require change to get promotional PERs there will be no stability on policies such as PLD.

 

[Torlyn]

Personally I feel the CF would be better served by standardizing the administration of the Forces through a non-military agency because as long as members require change to get promotional PERs there will be no stability on policies such as PLD.

How do you believe a non-military body would be better capable of making policy decisions for the CF?  It seems that you're asking a governmental body to create and institute those changes with no input from the military.  This would be an improvement?  I'm not sure how the results would be more stable, given the fickleness of governments.  Perhaps I misunderstood?

T

 

[Barrel Nut]

Lets look at it this way, our pays (gross) are seldom jerked around with, they are stable for the most part, why? because its controlled by Treasury Board not the CF directly.  Removing allowances from the CF Admin and placing them into an outside dept would allow for more input on our part, better review practices, more accountability, more accurate accounting thus leading to a more stable system (grant you this will cost).  The CF's track record on this issue is lacking, what was once done to help members has only turned into another dent in the ole moral footlocker.

One final note:  PLD does have an effect on moral, lowering it when your posted to someplace like Toronto would be senseless.  I'm personally am up for posting this year, I have a few choices before me: take the posting, go IR or just get out.  The cost of living and the PLD rate in the area I am posted to will be part of my decision because I rather stick it out here with what I have and as a civy as opposed to uproot again (7th time) and live poor somewhere else, PLD was supposed to help stop that from happening.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Lets look at it this way, our pays (gross) are seldom jerked around with, they are stable for the most part, why? because its controlled by Treasury Board not the CF directly.  Removing allowances from the CF Admin and placing them into an outside dept would allow for more input on our part, better review practices, more accountability, more accurate accounting thus leading to a more stable system (grant you this will cost).  The CF's track record on this issue is lacking, what was once done to help members has only turned into another dent in the ole moral footlocker.

[quote author=CBI 205.45(1)]PLD rates are set annually based on a Treasury Board approved methodology.[/quote]

The TB approved methodology includes using data provided from various sources:

- The latest Statistics Canada information on family spending patterns;
- Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) data on typical hosing types;
- National Defence data on the military population at each place of duty. A location with a higher number of military personnel will have a larger impact on the local economy than a location with a lower Canadian Forces population. For example, Ottawa compared to Moncton; and
- Actual cost of living data in a wide variety of categories at all places of duty in Canada. Examples of these categories include: total annual cost of transportation; household / renter insurance costs; the cost of utilities; and various goods and services like the cost of food and medical care.

So whichever track record you may perceive as lacking, the fact is that the calculation of PLD was made in conformity with guidelines established by the TB. In no instance was this a "CF Admin" issue, but simply that the kitty is running on empty, and that despite the method above some areas were not being fairly represented.

The intent of PLD is to stabilize the overall cost of living for Canadian Forces members, the fact that it affects moral is but ancilliary in its' establishement.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

The intent of PLD is to stabilize the overall cost of living for Canadian Forces members,

If Rental Rates have anything to do with PLD, someone is fudging the numbers somewhere ... it doesn't even come close to "stabilizing" the cost of living.

Example: cheapest 2-bdrm house (PMQs, by far the cheapest accomodations) in Vancouver costs $550 more than the equivalent in Comox ($1085 vs. $535); there is a far greater discrepancy in market rates.  PLD for Vancouver is $517 before tax! 

Of course transportation, insurance and pretty much everything else is more expensive (in many cases *far* more expensive ) in Vancouver than Comox.  Taxes are of course the same.

I defy anyone to make sense of that.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Rental Rates might be one of the factors, but it's not the only one.  You might pay less for something else in Vancouver than in Comox.

Max

 

[radop215]

would it not have something to do with where the staff colleges are?  hence toronto having 5 levels of PLD and edmonton gets nothing.

 

[PO2FinClk]

would it not have something to do with where the staff colleges are?

Colleges??? I can only deduce that you mean that an area can be subdivided based on the location of CF assets.

Look at the TB methodology to see how it is determined, flawed or not.

 

[Sub_Guy]

I was just looking over some information and it appears that there is a change coming, but we most likely won't see anything until after 01 Oct 07.

 

[PO2FinClk]

but we most likely won't see anything until after 01 Oct 07.

That is good news in deed, provided of course it remains as such. It would make sense to me that higher rate PLD area's would be informed before any other.

 

[BinRat55]

I've often wondered about the rationale behind determining PLD rates as well as locations.  Our situation here in Gander is grim to say the least.  I would say moderate to high rents (definitely not as high as BC or Ottawa), fuel prices are at a constant buck-15 per liter (and to drive to the nearest city you're looking at 300Km easy), my (what used to be) 150.00 a pay grocery bill is now 250.00 (maybe we eat more to keep warm  ??? - oil prices are the highest in Canada)... and I could go on.

Gander receives NO PLD.  Flawed or not, it is by far perfect, and definitely confusing!! :blotto:

Did I mention we have the highest provincial tax rate in Canada?

Interesting stuff!!