Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[axeman]

Steady  On ... i came back from the gulf and purchased a new to me used RV . got a good deal on it  now i know why . it has a 250 $ gas tank at 1.15 a litre now gas is 1.25 $  .. guess what doesnt get used too often ..

:'(    my bad im waiting for retirement though ...

I agree that somewhere some one has to revamp  PLD to bring some sense into the big variation of payout throughout the country . expensive places may not get it but other places that cost less then others get max ?

 

[PO2FinClk]

I agree that somewhere some one has to revamp  PLD to bring some sense into the big variation of payout throughout the country .

In the works, read above and until a CANFORGEN is released be on the lookout for a Townhall within your area.

 

[Sub_Guy]

ftp://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dmilpersstrat/HR_Stakeholders_Committee/Committee_27_Feb_07/

Look for the PLD presentation  (DIN ONLY)

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

The BCferries fuel surcharge is going to go through the roof to go with that..... :

And just in time for the long weekend ... 

 

[simysmom99]

I did a bit of a search on the dnd website for timings for the Townhall meetings.  Couldn't find anything current.  If anyone has info on that, it would be appreciated as I would like to attend.  No point complaining if you are not willing to find the solution.
Many thanks.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Note that I am not aware of anyone touring every single Base/Wing what have you, but merely meant that if one were to occur at your location would provide you the opportunity to hear from the sources. Thus keep an eye out in the event that one does come your way.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

If anyone is interested there are pension briefings in esquimalt next week, the pay guys from that evolution might be able to shed some light

 

[BestodaBest]

I've just recently done a component transfer to regf armoured soldier, and im hoping to be posted out in edmonton with the strats... so according to you guys, there are no PLD available in edmonton, and no space to live on base? im gonna be starting at the bottom again as a private, and i dont think im gonna be able to survive in a brand new environment in a province so far away (im currently situated in Ontario, Toronto).

From wat you guys are saying, im expected to just move to edmonton, find my own place on day one, and hope for the best?!?

Help me out here guys

 

[simysmom99]

BoB, I don't think the Army will hang you out to dry.  I imagine that you will get more info on that when your posting message comes through.  The situation in Edmonton is that there are no vacancies for families in PMQs (don't know about barracks) on base.  So, you need to go to the open market.  Rents are high, average house prices are also high.  It's a tough situation that not only effects people posting in.  The cost of gas is now $1.21, so that increases the cost of everything that is shipped here.  However, I think the cost of living is going up everywhere.

 

[BestodaBest]

thx simysmom, much obliged... i just hope it works out in the end... supposing i even do get 2 go to edmonton... a couple of years in barracks wouldn't be too bad, so at least i could accustom myself to the city and surroundings.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Keep in mind for all those in Edm whining about little to no pld that pld in the 2 highest markets in the country have steadily been dropping while taxation, transportation costs (and yes bus passess and ferry costs are included here), food prices, houseing prices, vehicle purchases, clothing costs, parking fee's and the like continue to rise we will very likely see pld disappear and we will all be in the same boat. (and yes I used to live in Alberta making minimum wage) of course I could support my family on $8.00/per hour in Calgary, promptly posted to Victoria (with $650/month pld) and in less than 4 years was making just shy of 60,000 and bankrupt. But like I say the writing is on the wall, the treasury board won't let PLD last forever.

 

[acheo]

Hi,

This is a question for anyone working for DCBA/similar unit or just very knowledgeable in financial issues.

I just finished reading the following thread at : http://cfpilots.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1341 on CF Pilot`s lounge. I pasted it at the bottom of this thread for those who cannot access it.

Just like my fellow aviators I'm very concerned and I would like to hear from decision makers about this issue.

1. Are the PLD`s going to be reassessed any soon? When?
2. Are they going to be cancelled?
3. Are the decision makers aware that a lot of people can no longer afford houses in Edmonton/Cold Lake/Victoria and that could have a subversive effect on personnel retention?  

Thanks!

Post Living Differential

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While our pay rates continue to improve along the lines of the PS, at what point will they begin reviewing PLD amounts for the CF as a whole. Traditionally, those markets which were overinflated compared to the national average would receive (x) amount of dollars.

In today's housing market, it is almost impossible for single income families below the rank of MCpl IPC 2, to get decent housing. While affordable housing may exist, it is well below the standard with which I would consider acceptable for a military family to live in.

With mortgage lengths reaching 50 years, is this one of the standards they use to determine PLD? I believe that on average, a 50 yr vs 20 yr mortgage will reduce your payments by about 30%. While that increases someones available income, it just puts them in the hurt locker to the bank for longer.

Thoughts?
__________________
:chug: :chug:
   

Woody0305
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Woody0305
Send email to Woody0305
Find all posts by Woody0305
Add Woody0305 to Your Buddy List

 #2       2 Weeks Ago  
laps  
Senior Member   Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 220  

PLD...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder if Edmonton is ever going to get some kind of PLD. Did a quick search on MLS and the CHEAPEST bungalow w/ 2 bedroom I could find was a 1918 crummy house in a questionnable neighbourhood for $249,000!!!

In comparison, I looked at other places that receives PLD:

- Halifax: Found way better houses for under $100,000 (with very nice ones under $200K)
- Borden: Found several properties below the $249K mark.
- Quebec City: Several houses under $100K, with over 300 houses to choose from below the price of Edmonton's crack house.
- Montreal (on the Island): A bit more expensive, but properties were still available in the $200K range (and more suitable than what is available for the same amount in Edmonton!!)

Of course, Toronto, Vancouver, etc... are also very expensive, but the current PLD takes this into consideration.

Not meant to be a business case, but I really wonder what's going on here.
__________________
TacHel: Not good enough for the Airforce, Not good enough for the Army...
   

laps
View Public Profile
Send a private message to laps
Find all posts by laps
Add laps to Your Buddy List

 #3       2 Weeks Ago  
bjc  
Senior Member   Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YOD
Posts: 155  

damn low taxes!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We had a presentation on this topic a few weeks ago. The presenter said one of the factors that has prevented Albertans from getting any PLD is the lack of a PST. In the eyes of the bean counters (who don't own mortgages in Alberta) that automatically lowers the cost of everything here by at least 6%. Since they only calculate the PLD rates every few years it takes a few years of insane housing prices to catch up. I don't think the cheap gas or utilities in Alberta argument holds water anymore either. I also guarantee my 35% property tax increase this month wasn't considered either!

All that to say, if I was a betting man I'd bet on PLD for CYED, CYOD and CFF7 next time the rates get calculated, whenever that may be!

I can't wait to sell my home here someday and buy PEI with the profit. Problem is that I'd still want to live here...
   

bjc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to bjc
Send email to bjc
Find all posts by bjc
Add bjc to Your Buddy List

 #4       2 Weeks Ago  
Creek  
Senior Member   Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Comox
Posts: 103  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BJC, I agree wholeheartedly. Although I know that I will receive some grief over this, but here in YQQ the housing prices are through the roof! On top of the that we are paying an average of $1.11 per litre of gas for our vehicles and to leave to Island it is at least another 100 bucks return, and the is on the Trans-Canada highway!!! Yes the weather is better than other places most of the time, but how many times did your power go out last winter due 70+ kph winds? Yet we receive NO PLD? No we don't live in Vancouver but it is certainly not cheap.
__________________
Creek

“It’s Always Time For A Guinness!!”
   

Creek
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Creek
Send email to Creek
Find all posts by Creek
Add Creek to Your Buddy List

 #5       2 Weeks Ago  
Riley73  
Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Orleans
Posts: 17  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other interesting aspects: Ottawa and Gatineau are lumped in together as the National Capital Region, so that lower prices in Gatineau offset higher ones in Ottawa, as far as PLD is concerned. See link for the CF Backgrounder on PLD: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroo..._e.asp?id=1462. I do recall from a discussion with DCBA that PLD is a zero-sum game: ie, there are only x dollars in the pot, so that when PLD is re-assessed it will be removed from some locations and given to others. Unfortunately, I am no longer with CMP, so I have missed out on the recent discussions, but I am sure that the regional disparity will be a hot item at the monthly meeting, especially because the Army has so many troops affected by it in Edmonton and Wainwright.
   

Riley73
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Riley73
Find all posts by Riley73
Add Riley73 to Your Buddy List

 #6       2 Weeks Ago  
Zipperhead  
Senior Member   Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lotus Land
Posts: 253  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Correct me if I am wrong - from what I am seeing it looks like it is expensive to live in Comox, Victoria,Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Wainwright, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.

It seems like it is expensive to live everywhere in Canada, maybe this is just a fact of life and we should all accept it and move on.
__________________
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in War."

"Centered and Off" :flip:
   

Zipperhead
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Zipperhead
Find all posts by Zipperhead
Add Zipperhead to Your Buddy List

 #7       2 Weeks Ago  
wayned  
wayned   Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Greenwood,NS
Posts: 56  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless you consider Gander, Goose, Greenwood, Bagotville, Trenton, The Jaw, and Cold Lake.... you know the bulk of the Airforce.
   

wayned
View Public Profile
Send a private message to wayned
Send email to wayned
Find all posts by wayned
Add wayned to Your Buddy List

 #8       2 Weeks Ago  
tweetie  
Member   Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: St. Albert (TD New Maryland 3-5yrs)
Posts: 91  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a time in the late 90s when there was an 11 dollar PLD amount for Edmonton.
Well with the crazy real-estate prices now bring on the PLD or else who in their right mind would want to get posted there again.

Tweetie
   

tweetie
View Public Profile
Send a private message to tweetie
Send email to tweetie
Find all posts by tweetie
Add tweetie to Your Buddy List

 #9       2 Weeks Ago  
TacHell  
Love2Fly   Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Over d' ere bye
Posts: 87  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
It seems like it is expensive to live everywhere in Canada  

Not Quite! Here on the east coast $350,000.00 will still get you a mansion. Look in Sherwood Park for example (about 25-30 min commute to CYED) and $350,000.00 gets you a 1000 sqft town house, or 1960s era, average condition 1000 sqft bungalow. In the last 12 months, real estate in the city of Edmonton has increased an average of 40%. Sounds a little more expensive there than most places in the country. The place I sold 3 yrs ago east of Sherwood park has more than doubled in price. Can't say that for my house here in NB. If there is no PLD soon, then those posted from areas such as Gagetown to Edmonton will have but two choices - live in squalor, or proceed on IR.
__________________
Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room! - President Merkin Muffley - "Dr. Strangelove"
   

TacHell
View Public Profile
Send a private message to TacHell
Send email to TacHell
Find all posts by TacHell
Add TacHell to Your Buddy List

 #10       2 Weeks Ago  
Coaker  
Member   Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 76  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipperhead  
It seems like it is expensive to live everywhere in Canada, maybe this is just a fact of life and we should all accept it and move on.

Tell that to the no-hook private getting posted to Edmonton! The same individual who gets paid the same no matter where he's posted.

At the end of the day, the whole concept of Post Living DIFFERENTIAL should be meant that a soldier ends up with the same "buying power" in one place or another. So if the big wigs figure out that a 6yr captain pilot is worth $95K, then the value of that $95K should be the same whether you live in QQ, MJ, ED, OD, TR or CX. Right now, this is NOT the case!!

I am quite happy with my situation as I will sell my $130K condo bought 5 yrs ago for something like $325K+, but I sure won't want to come back anywhere near here after. As Coaker said, the ones I really wonder about are those with a lower income (Ptes, Cpls, 2Lts...) posted here. Maybe it's going to turn out like Victoria and as soon as one goes to the food bank...

In the meanwhile, we'll keep on reading about soldier's wives (whose husbands are in Afg), being evicted from their appartment

Glad that those involved in the decision process are receiving near $1000 in YOW!
__________________
TacHel: Not good enough for the Airforce, Not good enough for the Army...
   

laps
View Public Profile
Send a private message to laps
Find all posts by laps
Add laps to Your Buddy List

 #12       2 Weeks Ago  
Woody0305  
Senior Member   Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cold Lake
Posts: 194
 

Refusing postings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last night doing a night refresher, my crew actually talked a little bit about this. And it would seem that there are people out there refusing postings to certain areas ED, OD, QQ because the housing prices are so ridiculous... unless they go IR.
__________________
:chug: :chug:
   

Woody0305
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Woody0305
Send email to Woody0305
Find all posts by Woody0305
Add Woody0305 to Your Buddy List

 #13       2 Weeks Ago  
Otter  
Member   Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 57  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A) You can refuse a posting?

B) Laps, what you said about stories in the paper about people being evicted...is that because of the rent control fiasco and skyrocketing rents?
   

Otter
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Otter
Find all posts by Otter
Add Otter to Your Buddy List

 #14       2 Weeks Ago  
Zipperhead  
Senior Member   Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lotus Land
Posts: 253  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter  
A) You can refuse a posting?

Nope - unless you want to stay in Edmonton via the jail cells.

Imposed Restriction is always an option - Career Managers aren't taking the "post me and I'll get out" bluff - record number of releases this year at QQ due to that very tactic.
__________________
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in War."

"Centered and Off" :flip:
   

Zipperhead
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Zipperhead
Find all posts by Zipperhead
Add Zipperhead to Your Buddy List

 #15       2 Weeks Ago  
coldsmoke  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of my colleagues here in KAF was discussing the cost of living issue with the CF CWO while he was here (along with the CDS and the Stanley Cup). Apparently the PLD issue will be re-evaluated in the near future especially considering the real estate costs in Edmonton.
   

coldsmoke
View Public Profile
Send a private message to coldsmoke
Find all posts by coldsmoke
Add coldsmoke to Your Buddy List

 #16       2 Weeks Ago  
littlegreenhelo  
LGH   Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 55  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter  
A) You can refuse a posting?

Well, a wise man once told me - you can do whatever you want, just know that there are consequences.
   

littlegreenhelo
View Public Profile
Send a private message to littlegreenhelo
Find all posts by littlegreenhelo
Add littlegreenhelo to Your Buddy List

 #17       2 Weeks Ago  
laps  
Senior Member   Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 220  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's been a couple of article in Edmonton's papers. In some cases, it was because people could not afford the rent hike. In another case, it was because the appartment complex was going to be sold as individual condos. A local survey in the paper had it that 75% of the local population supported financial assistance for CF pers posted to the region.

As I said, I am a the lucky end of all of this. I will make a lot money upon posting and my income suffices to cover for the high property taxes and the expensive Timmy Coffee (yes, it is more expensive here... that's what happen when you have to pay your employees more than $12/hr at Tim's!!). I am more concerned about those that are just getting posted and/or have a lesser income.
__________________
TacHel: Not good enough for the Airforce, Not good enough for the Army...
   

laps
View Public Profile
Send a private message to laps
Find all posts by laps
Add laps to Your Buddy List

 #18       2 Weeks Ago  
MacCloud9  
Senior Member   Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: HicksVille/Ottawa on the River
Posts: 599  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by laps  
Glad that those involved in the decision process are receiving near $1000 in YOW!

I wish! PLD for Ottawa on the river is currently $196/mth. Taranna on the other hand is $1000+, depending on where you are located inside the GTA.
__________________
"There's nary an animal as dangerous as a smart sheep!"
   

MacCloud9
View Public Profile
Send a private message to MacCloud9
Send email to MacCloud9
Find all posts by MacCloud9
Add MacCloud9 to Your Buddy List

 #19       1 Week Ago  
jeanyvest  
Member   Join Date: May 2002
Location: Cold Lake, AB
Posts: 55  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Imposed Restriction is always an option - Career Managers aren't taking the "post me and I'll get out" bluff - record number of releases this year at QQ due to that very tactic.  



I guess it is not a bluff when you actually do it.
__________________
Taz

"Dehiscere per universum"

Remember, rules are guidelines only.
   

jeanyvest
View Public Profile
Send a private message to jeanyvest
Send email to jeanyvest
Find all posts by jeanyvest
Add jeanyvest to Your Buddy List

 #20       1 Week Ago  
laps  
Senior Member   Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 220  

 

[284_226]

I don't suppose you bothered to do a search and read this, did you?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/57673.0/all.html

 

[acheo]

In fact I did. Unless you are well informed on this topic and are able to give me some real data (not just a meaningless a briefing that has been published on DIN to calm down the working class ) please refrain from giving your sarcastic comments which are, by the way, so frequent on this forum.

Again, does anyone from DCBA or any financial section can answer these questions and stick to the facts?

Acheo

 

[GAP]

.

 

[284_226]

In fact I did. Unless you are well informed on this topic and are able to give me some real data (not just a meaningless a briefing that has been published on DIN to calm down the working class ) please refrain from giving your sarcastic comments which are, by the way, so frequent on this forum.

I give sarcastic comments?  Wow, I wonder what would happen if I really tried.   

Oh, and I resent the "working class" remark.  I'll have it known that I keep work to an absolute minimum, in accordance with Air Force policy.

Again, does anyone from DCBA or any financial section can answer these questions and stick to the facts?

Did it possibly occur to you that nobody can answer your questions because nobody has the answers yet, since the issue still seems to be under investigation?

I don't think coming in here with both barrels blazing, demanding answers, is going to be particularly conducive to your cause.

 

[Michael OLeary]

In fact I did. Unless you are well informed on this topic and are able to give me some real data (not just a meaningless a briefing that has been published on DIN to calm down the working class ) please refrain from giving your sarcastic comments which are, by the way, so frequent on this forum.

Again, does anyone from DCBA or any financial section can answer these questions and stick to the facts?

Acheo

Rein in the attitude acheo.  I can assure you as soon as hard data on PLD gets released it'll get posted here by someone.

If you're so concerned that only responses from "decision-makers" will do, then I suggest you only work with official channels.

If someone here is from one of those shops, and decides to declare it, and decides to release information before it is officially promulgated, you'll see it just as soon as the rest of us.

So please, drop the dictatorial tone.

Army.ca Staff

 

[ZipperHead]

Hi,

This is a question for anyone working for DCBA/similar unit or just very knowledgeable in financial issues.

I just finished reading the following thread at : http://cfpilots.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1341 on CF Pilot`s lounge. I pasted it at the bottom of this thread for those who cannot access it.

Just like my fellow aviators I'm very concerned and I would like to hear from decision makers about this issue.

1. Are the PLD`s going to be reassessed any soon? When?
2. Are they going to be cancelled?
3. Are the decision makers aware that a lot of people can no longer afford houses in Edmonton/Cold Lake/Victoria and that could have a subversive effect on personnel retention? 

Thanks!

While I suspect that the writer of this is perhaps speaking in their second language (i.e. they are bi-lingual) hence the confusion between "subversive" and "adverse", greed has no linguistic boundaries or distinctions in regards to looking after Number 1. Most of the people I associate with are concerned with the effect that high housing costs will have on the rank and file soldiers/sailors/air-people, yet 'acheo' is expecting sympathy for the "aviator" class (read as: officers) not the unwashed masses (as witnessed by the sarcastic "working classes" comment). Boy, I would really feel sorry for a fly-boy or fly-girl that can't afford a house in Edmonton/Cold Lake/Victoria, what with all that special pay they get, compared to a Private or Ordinary Seaman living in those places that don't get any extra pay (sea pay or air crew allowance). What are they teaching in RMC these days?? Doesn't sound like leadership to these ears. Me! Me! Me! It would be a tragic loss to the CF to lose these overgrown spoiled brats (see..... that's sarcasm!!!) Look after your soldier/sailors/airmen first, and then worry about yourself.

AL

 

[George Wallace]

Nice little rant there Al.   I do agree with what you said.

Look after your soldier/sailors/airmen first, and then worry about yourself.

Unfortunately, it is very few in the Officer Corps who really take this to heart and become truly good officers.  Those few, who have risen to greatness, and recognized the contributions of their subordinates in making them the officer they have become, are very rare indeed.  The rest will eventually become fodder and left by the wayside.

It amazes me when I meet a young member of the CF (NCM, NCO and/or Officer) whose main interest is "self".  "How do I get two or three medals?"  "How do I get promoted?"  "How do I become an officer?"  All questions that really don't hit home, until their lack of experience is exhibited, and then one can only shake their head in bemusement at their egos and arrogance.  One could only hope that they some day will grow out of these immature fantasies and gain some real leadership qualities and experience.

As for PLD; is it not adjusted in three year cycles?

 

[284_226]

As for PLD; is it not adjusted in three year cycles?

Adjusted annually, based on a three-year rolling average of the factors that get input into the PLD equation.  The last adjustment was Oct 05, or Jan 06, depending on where one resides.

There hasn't been a CANFORGEN issued on the subject (like the annual "Wait, out" messages that come out around June concerning the annual cost of living adjustment) since the last increase adjustment - which has caused a lot of speculation amongst the masses about what's happening with it.  In this case, the silence on the subject is doubly disconcerting.

Edit:  not everyone got an increase - some decreased or lost PLD altogether during the last adjustment.