Army Reserve Restructuring

[WLSC]

Something like this in the appropriate pattern with no cap badge allowed.

How long before embroidered cap badge arrive like the one on the funny cap?

 

[FJAG]

How long before embroidered cap badge arrive like the one on the funny cap?

 

[WLSC]

It’s not negative!! I like those embroidered cap badge

 

[FJAG]

It’s not negative!! I like those embroidered cap badge

I still have my 1970s combat cap with the gunner badge.

 

[Furniture]

Not necessarily. There’s 3 regiments in W Div with 2-3 coy in different municipalities. One cap badge, 3 different locations. Yes, there’s one of the unit that have a coy the other side of the Saint-Laurence so it’s the example not to follow.

It can work, but in your example of three infantry units within 2.5km. Which of the three units survives?

 

[GR66]

It can work, but in your example of three infantry units within 2.5km. Which of the three units survives?

Just 1st to 17th Battalions of the Royal Canadian Regiment...

 

[daftandbarmy]

It can work, but in your example of three infantry units within 2.5km. Which of the three units survives?

 

[markppcli]

It can work, but in your example of three infantry units within 2.5km. Which of the three units survives?

You take the names with the largest catchment areas, or create new names and have sub companies named after things. Certain regiments can be perpetuated by ceremonial / bands. For example in BC you form the British Columbia Rifles (antecedent of the BCrs) because quite frankly it’s the most logical, and then you have A company - Westies B- Comapny - Rocky Mountain Rangers, ect. Lee the names, get rid of the cap badges. In Quebec you could have, again as an example, the Royal Montreal Regiment who’s band continues in the tradition of the Black Watch, and in Ontario you could provide the guards as a ceremonial summer task. Out west on the prairies probably you need to make new names because of the distance and lack of “geographically neutral” names unit, perhaps the Canadian Mounted Rifles make a come back?

I spent six years as a reservist, I can say that most of the people I served with thought we needed some kind of amalgamation. As unhappy as it will make some, I think the majority would “get it.”

 

[WLSC]

It can work, but in your example of three infantry units within 2.5km. Which of the three units survives?

I would say mine but you have to do it based on the unit health.

Just 1st to 17th Battalions of the Royal Canadian Regiment...

They are at further west, 3-4 k. Maybe ! They were the 14th

 

[WLSC]

You take the names with the largest catchment areas, or create new names and have sub companies named after things. Certain regiments can be perpetuated by ceremonial / bands. For example in BC you form the British Columbia Rifles (antecedent of the BCrs) because quite frankly it’s the most logical, and then you have A company - Westies B- Comapny - Rocky Mountain Rangers, ect. Lee the names, get rid of the cap badges. In Quebec you could have, again as an example, the Royal Montreal Regiment who’s band continues in the tradition of the Black Watch, and in Ontario you could provide the guards as a ceremonial summer task. Out west on the prairies probably you need to make new names because of the distance and lack of “geographically neutral” names unit, perhaps the Canadian Mounted Rifles make a come back?

I spent six years as a reservist, I can say that most of the people I served with thought we needed some kind of amalgamation. As unhappy as it will make some, I think the majority would “get it.”

The majority think the system is broken. Emotionally they would close the weaker unit but amalgamation is acceptable for most.

 

[markppcli]

The majority think the system is broken. Emotionally they would close the weaker unit but amalgamation is acceptable for most.

And as harsh as this may sound…. If the price for a more effective, functional reserve system is that the Rocky Mountain Rangers recruiting suffers for 3 years well that’s life.

I do think we massively overestimate how important these regimental identifies are to recruiting efforts. To retaining people… fine to a point yes important, but to recruitment ? Eh.

 

[dapaterson]

And as harsh as this may sound…. If the price for a more effective, functional reserve system is that the Rocky Mountain Rangers recruiting suffers for 3 years well that’s life.

I do think we massively overestimate how important these regimental identifies are to recruiting efforts. To retaining people… fine to a point yes important, but to recruitment ? Eh.

So, nine numbered battalions of Reg F infantry without Regimental affiliations would be ok?

 

[KevinB]

Just 1st to 17th Battalions of the Canadian Infantry Regiment...

FIFY

 

[ueo]

That's exactly my view. Keep on battalion each of the RCR, PPCLI and R22eR but break the 2nd and 3rd battalions up into 30/70 or 70/30 battalions and each of those adopts the name of an existing ResF battalion.

I can't explain why but that idea bothers me. I know others have suggested that too and there is merit in it. I didn't like it when the Brits did it and I didn't like it when we reformed all the Reg F into three regiments. I prefer to use existing titles.

When you start regrouping elements it actually works out that there is very little need to reposition anything or open or close armouries. In my model only the cut-up RegF battalions need to move and in each case its to an urban area to be collocated with their ResF companies.


Even the Americans have regiments i.e. 2nd Bn, 4th Infantry Regt; 3rd Bn, 319th Field Arty Regt etc. They just don't mean as much as our regimental system. With the restructure I propose at total of 17 full sized infantry battalions, 3 at 100/0 for high readiness; the rest 30/70 battalions at tiered readiness. There won't be any regiments per se (although each bn tends to think of itself as a regiment as the armoured and arty do). Maybe I don't prescribe to your idea nor @foresterab's because I do not see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Canada has had many of these units for 150 years now. They'll do just fine.


Here's a quick pick how I think it might work with A Coy 48th Highrs being the RegF company and B, C, D and E Coys being the former battalions restructured to a coy role with a major and MWO being the respective highest ranks in the company.

View attachment 81746

This is one of the two infantry battalions in Toronto's 32nd brigade. The other is formed around the Queen's Own Rifles with the HQ and A Coy again coming from 2 RCR and B, C, D and E coys coming from the Royal Regiment of Canada, the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry, the Royal Highland Fusiliers of Kitchener ad the Lincoln and Welland Regiment out of St Catharines.

10/90 has been tried and disguarded, So might all the other ratio suggestions.

 

[WLSC]

And as harsh as this may sound…. If the price for a more effective, functional reserve system is that the Rocky Mountain Rangers recruiting suffers for 3 years well that’s life.

I do think we massively overestimate how important these regimental identifies are to recruiting efforts. To retaining people… fine to a point yes important, but to recruitment ? Eh.

The British have done it for years/century and they are ok, I think. We are stuck harden ciment. Of course it will hurt but what's the point of having a regiment which is unable to produce is own CO or RSM. There 2 other units that are commanded by ex-CO of my Regiment. It took us almost 20 years to recover from the very badly manage of the ARes Pl 2i/c course in the 90's (franco) so we could have our own ingrown RSM. We ar enow ok, one deep but ok on both the offr and NCM's side. The CT of another unit wil be at 100% from us. We are ''healty'' and because of that we have to send Maj's to Comd other unit with the understanding that they will come back to the Regiment after as a CO. It's a total madness.

To not under estimate the regimental system for retention, I have plenty of exemple that it work. The identity piece is important for the current young generation.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So, nine numbered battalions of Reg F infantry without Regimental affiliations would be ok?

 

[RedFive]

You take the names with the largest catchment areas, or create new names and have sub companies named after things. Certain regiments can be perpetuated by ceremonial / bands. For example in BC you form the British Columbia Rifles (antecedent of the BCrs) because quite frankly it’s the most logical, and then you have A company - Westies B- Comapny - Rocky Mountain Rangers, ect. Lee the names, get rid of the cap badges. In Quebec you could have, again as an example, the Royal Montreal Regiment who’s band continues in the tradition of the Black Watch, and in Ontario you could provide the guards as a ceremonial summer task. Out west on the prairies probably you need to make new names because of the distance and lack of “geographically neutral” names unit, perhaps the Canadian Mounted Rifles make a come back?

I spent six years as a reservist, I can say that most of the people I served with thought we needed some kind of amalgamation. As unhappy as it will make some, I think the majority would “get it.”

Is your plan to remove Armoured units from the reserves? The BCR has been armoured since WW2 and despite the fact the cap badge still says Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles, the Rifles part hasn't been part of the official name since the designation change. Its just the British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own).

Semantics I know, but I'd absolutely be one of those who would resist the amalgamation or closure of my Regiment's histories and traditions.

If you really wanted to amalgamate 39 CBG units you could fold the BCR and BCD together and make them squadrons I guess? God help you telling my infantry colleagues who gets to stay and who gets to change their affiliations...

 

[WLSC]

Is your plan to remove Armoured units from the reserves? The BCR has been armoured since WW2 and despite the fact the cap badge still says Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles, the Rifles part hasn't been part of the official name since the designation change. Its just the British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own).

Semantics I know, but I'd absolutely be one of those who would resist the amalgamation or closure of my Regiment's histories and traditions.

If you really wanted to amalgamate 39 CBG units you could fold the BCR and BCD together and make them squadrons I guess? God help you telling my infantry colleagues who gets to stay and who gets to change their affiliations...

That's a good point. I my view, we would need more so instead of closing units, rebadging and reroling them might be a better solution. The ARes Armoured Corps also need to be decentralized IOT have a bigger pool for succession planning. Where there's to much inf regt, reroling mignt be a good solution.

 

[markppcli]

Is your plan to remove Armoured units from the reserves? The BCR has been armoured since WW2 and despite the fact the cap badge still says Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles, the Rifles part hasn't been part of the official name since the designation change. Its just the British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own).

Unit? In a large extent yes. If you listen to the Canadian Army pod cast, observe our more recent history, and look at our equipment stocks it becomes very very clear that the army does not require 20 odd reserve regiments. What it does need is crew for TAPVs who have worked with infantry dismounts, who can now have two maneuver MOS in the same unit to help allow people to move between companies easier, possibly with some admin grouping.

The RCAC’s reserve units should be in Edmonton, Quebec City, Ottawa / Pembroke, and Fredricton. They can make heavy use of simulators and fall in on kit in the weekends to become familiar and function as crew augmentation. The Brits already do this with the Yeomanry.

Semantics I know, but I'd absolutely be one of those who would resist the amalgamation or closure of my Regiment's histories and traditions.

Why? What practical reason? Is it because the regiment gives you a sense of belonging and you think you’d loose that if what your friend group called themselves changes?

If you really wanted to amalgamate 39 CBG units you could fold the BCR and BCD together and make them squadrons I guess? God help you telling my infantry colleagues who gets to stay and who gets to change their affiliations...

Do it to those other guys not us!! We need a CO for the Westy Company, one for the Seaforth Company, one for all 42 RMRang… it’s an absurd structure. If you look at the history of Canada it’s only since the 1960s that we’ve decided Regiments, their names, and their status are these sacred cows that never be adjusted, amalgamated or changed. We’re hand cuffed to cap badges, for no real reason. It adds pointless layers of admin, employees pointless managers, and eats up in situational effort that could be spent doing their jobs.


It’s been mentioned before that we have a hard time moving people of different trades from place to place, because in town A they’re engineers and in town B they’re armour. That’s also deeply silly, we should have overarching regional organizations and sub units that allow transfer from place to place.

 

[RangerRay]

Is your plan to remove Armoured units from the reserves? The BCR has been armoured since WW2 and despite the fact the cap badge still says Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles, the Rifles part hasn't been part of the official name since the designation change. Its just the British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own).

Semantics I know, but I'd absolutely be one of those who would resist the amalgamation or closure of my Regiment's histories and traditions.

If you really wanted to amalgamate 39 CBG units you could fold the BCR and BCD together and make them squadrons I guess? God help you telling my infantry colleagues who gets to stay and who gets to change their affiliations...

The Royal Scottish Rocky Mountain Highlanders?

I would be open to unit amalgamation like in the UK. There is some creative joining of the names that in itself tells a history of the regiment.

I just don’t understand why we need three battalions each of RCR, PPCLI and R22eR. Two could be re-badged Black Watch and Queen’s Own Rifles. I’m sure there are a few other former RegF regiments out there too. Is there a real savings in cap badges?

Maybe I should stop now.