- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
Valuable advise from Sgt Larry Bailley: " Always keep two rounds back, in case some ******* gets stuck on your pig sticker. Anyone asks, I never said that".
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 31,852
- Points
- 1,160
OK then, how about a Khukri? By the way, if anyone knows of a good source for a proper one (ass opposed to the dime store versions floating around) let me know. Lost mine ages ago to a thief.
http://kitup.military.com/2006/11/index.html
When you absolutely positively have to chop something
November 2, 2006|Kit Up!
I have been in the Army 17 years now and twice deployed to a combat zone and I have yet to be issued a bayonet. The reasons for this generally fall into two categories. First, commanders consider the bayonet too dangerous to use (soldiers might hurt themselves), and second, the bayonet is accountable property and you’ll be paying for it if you break (read use) it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not all fired up to go out and stab someone with a bayonet, but there are times when you need a potentially sacrificial instrument to chop, hack, dig, probe, or test the proverbial waters with, and the last thing I want to do is get slapped with a $120 statement of charges because I used my shiny new M9 bayonet to probe a recently plastered section of brick wall looking for contraband and the tip broke. Say hello to the kukri. The kukri is the fighting knife of the Nepalese Gurkhas. A traditional kukri is hand-made in Nepal out of leaf spring steel (I’m told that Mercedes-Benz springs are the best) and is a combination hatchet, short sword, and fighting knife. While mine is by no means "traditional" (mine was made in India I believe) what it is, however, is a most excellent piece of kit, which I have used time and time again for all those jobs for which an issue bayonet would have been the ticket, were such a bayonet available. Moreover at $40 a shot (a traditional kukri will run you $150 or more) I am not losing any sleep if I chip the blade on my kukri (which I have done, trying to hack through a undiscovered piece of rebar.)
Gurkha Kukri
http://kitup.military.com/2006/11/index.html
When you absolutely positively have to chop something
November 2, 2006|Kit Up!
I have been in the Army 17 years now and twice deployed to a combat zone and I have yet to be issued a bayonet. The reasons for this generally fall into two categories. First, commanders consider the bayonet too dangerous to use (soldiers might hurt themselves), and second, the bayonet is accountable property and you’ll be paying for it if you break (read use) it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not all fired up to go out and stab someone with a bayonet, but there are times when you need a potentially sacrificial instrument to chop, hack, dig, probe, or test the proverbial waters with, and the last thing I want to do is get slapped with a $120 statement of charges because I used my shiny new M9 bayonet to probe a recently plastered section of brick wall looking for contraband and the tip broke. Say hello to the kukri. The kukri is the fighting knife of the Nepalese Gurkhas. A traditional kukri is hand-made in Nepal out of leaf spring steel (I’m told that Mercedes-Benz springs are the best) and is a combination hatchet, short sword, and fighting knife. While mine is by no means "traditional" (mine was made in India I believe) what it is, however, is a most excellent piece of kit, which I have used time and time again for all those jobs for which an issue bayonet would have been the ticket, were such a bayonet available. Moreover at $40 a shot (a traditional kukri will run you $150 or more) I am not losing any sleep if I chip the blade on my kukri (which I have done, trying to hack through a undiscovered piece of rebar.)
Gurkha Kukri
- Reaction score
- 8,210
- Points
- 1,160
Daft - the only problem that I have with my traditional Kukri is maintaining a secure grip. The oval, wooden hilt, especially if wet, makes it difficult for me to maintain directional stability. It becomes like a flag in the breeze on the down stroke, wanting to turn 180 degrees from the direction of travel. My first few strokes tend to be clean but it is harder to maintain that accuracy over time.
If there were one change that I would like to see to the Kukri it would be a triangular hilt and some sort of guard, perhaps even a pistol grip to maintain that directional stability. Other than that, I agree that the Kukri has a really nice multifunctional blade.
Cheers
If there were one change that I would like to see to the Kukri it would be a triangular hilt and some sort of guard, perhaps even a pistol grip to maintain that directional stability. Other than that, I agree that the Kukri has a really nice multifunctional blade.
Cheers
- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
Daft....PM inbound. Kirkhill; You need one with the water buffalo horn handle, much friendlier grip. Accuracy suffers because you are performing an unnatural (to you) motion. Don't forget, a decent Khukri weighs about 2 lbs, and if not practiced often, your forearm quickly tires.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 31,852
- Points
- 1,160
I used to wrap my handle in para cord. Gives you a better grip, and also keeps some para cord handy if you need it. You can also make a wrist loop for the knife in case you drop it. The Ghurkas I worked with cringed (politely) when they saw that though... ever the purists, they just used the basic knife as is.
- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
The rosewood grips are okay, but have a tendency to get "slick" over time and usage. The ridge around the centre also gets uncomfortable very quickly. For an extra few shekkels, you can get buffalo horn grips. They are smooth, but get kind of tacky as it warms up in your hand, kinda difficult to explain, but you see what I mean. The rosewood also tends to dry out and crack unless kept oiled or waxed. Good dealers also offer "westernized" grips, longer than the native knives, for our big western meathooks. The shape of the blade and its weight are what makes it a phenominal chopper, as the reverse curve maintains contact with the "sweet spot" longer than conventional chopping blades. Ounce for ounce the British Army Service #1 is one of the best field knives out there, ridicule and Rambo comments notwithstanding.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 31,852
- Points
- 1,160
Just wondering... have we hijacked this thread with our Khukri banter? Ah well... if so it's a good hijacking in any case.
- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
Mea Culpea, just one of the very few things I know a (very) little bit about..... ;D
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 31,852
- Points
- 1,160
http://www.army.mod.uk/brigade_of_gurkhas/hqbg/vcs/index.htm
OK, back on track with a Gurkha falvour..
"...Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa took command of the remaining two Sections and led them forward towards the main feature on the outer ridge, in order to break through and secure the one and only passage by which the vital commanding feature could be seized to cover the penetration of the Division into the hills...This steep cleft was thickly studded with a series of enemy posts, the inner of which contained an anti-tank gun and the remainder medium machine-guns. After passing through the narrow cleft, one emerges into a small arena with very steep sides, some 200 feet in height, and in places sheer cliff...
The garrison of the outer posts were all killed by Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa and his men by kukri or bayonet in the first rush and the enemy then opened very heavy fire straight down the narrow enclosed pathway and steep arena sides. Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa led him men on and fought his way up the narrow gully straight through the enemy's fire... The next machine-gun posts were dealt with, Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa personally killing two men with his kukri and two more with his revolver... He and two Riflemen managed to reach the crest, where Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa killed another two men with his kukri, the Riflemen killed two more and the rest fled. Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa then secured the whole feature and covered his Company's advance up the defile.
...The outstanding leadership, gallantry and complete disregard for his own safety shown by Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa were an example to the whole Company, and the ruthless determination of this Gurkha officer to reach his objective and kill his enemy had a decisive effect on the success of the whole operations".
Extracts from London Gazette 15 June 1943
"...On approaching the objective one of the sections was forced to ground by very heavy Light Machine Gun, grenade and mortar fire, and... accurate fire from a tree sniper... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung, being unable to fire from the lying position, stood up fully exposed to the heavy fire and calmly killed the enemy sniper with his rifle... The section then advanced... but... was again attacked by very heavy fire. Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung... dashed forward alone and attacked the first enemy fox-hole. Throwing two grenades, he killed the two occupants and... rushed on to the next enemy fox-hole and killed the Japanese in it with his bayonet.
Two further enemy fox-holes were still bringing fire to bear... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung dashed forward alone and cleared these with bayonet and grenade ...subjected to almost continuous and point-blank Light Machine Gun fire from a bunker on the North tip of the objective ... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung... doubled forward and leapt on to the roof of the bunker from where... he flung two No.77 smoke grenades into the bunker slit. Two Japanese rushed out of the bunker... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung promptly killed them both with his Kukri. A remaining Japanese inside the bunker was still firing the Light Machine Gun... so Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gruung crawled inside the bunker, killed this Japanese gunner and captured the Light Machine Gun.
...Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung ordered the nearest Bren gunner and two riflemen to take up positions in the captured bunker. The enemy counter-attack followed soon after, but under Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung's command the small party inside the bunker repelled it with heavy loss to the enemy.
Riflemen Bhanbhagta Gurung showed outstanding bravery and a complete disregard for his own safety. His courageous clearing of five enemy positions single-handed was in itself decisive in capturing the objective...
Extracts from London Gazette 5 June 1945
OK, back on track with a Gurkha falvour..
"...Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa took command of the remaining two Sections and led them forward towards the main feature on the outer ridge, in order to break through and secure the one and only passage by which the vital commanding feature could be seized to cover the penetration of the Division into the hills...This steep cleft was thickly studded with a series of enemy posts, the inner of which contained an anti-tank gun and the remainder medium machine-guns. After passing through the narrow cleft, one emerges into a small arena with very steep sides, some 200 feet in height, and in places sheer cliff...
The garrison of the outer posts were all killed by Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa and his men by kukri or bayonet in the first rush and the enemy then opened very heavy fire straight down the narrow enclosed pathway and steep arena sides. Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa led him men on and fought his way up the narrow gully straight through the enemy's fire... The next machine-gun posts were dealt with, Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa personally killing two men with his kukri and two more with his revolver... He and two Riflemen managed to reach the crest, where Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa killed another two men with his kukri, the Riflemen killed two more and the rest fled. Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa then secured the whole feature and covered his Company's advance up the defile.
...The outstanding leadership, gallantry and complete disregard for his own safety shown by Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa were an example to the whole Company, and the ruthless determination of this Gurkha officer to reach his objective and kill his enemy had a decisive effect on the success of the whole operations".
Extracts from London Gazette 15 June 1943
"...On approaching the objective one of the sections was forced to ground by very heavy Light Machine Gun, grenade and mortar fire, and... accurate fire from a tree sniper... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung, being unable to fire from the lying position, stood up fully exposed to the heavy fire and calmly killed the enemy sniper with his rifle... The section then advanced... but... was again attacked by very heavy fire. Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung... dashed forward alone and attacked the first enemy fox-hole. Throwing two grenades, he killed the two occupants and... rushed on to the next enemy fox-hole and killed the Japanese in it with his bayonet.
Two further enemy fox-holes were still bringing fire to bear... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung dashed forward alone and cleared these with bayonet and grenade ...subjected to almost continuous and point-blank Light Machine Gun fire from a bunker on the North tip of the objective ... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung... doubled forward and leapt on to the roof of the bunker from where... he flung two No.77 smoke grenades into the bunker slit. Two Japanese rushed out of the bunker... Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung promptly killed them both with his Kukri. A remaining Japanese inside the bunker was still firing the Light Machine Gun... so Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gruung crawled inside the bunker, killed this Japanese gunner and captured the Light Machine Gun.
...Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung ordered the nearest Bren gunner and two riflemen to take up positions in the captured bunker. The enemy counter-attack followed soon after, but under Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung's command the small party inside the bunker repelled it with heavy loss to the enemy.
Riflemen Bhanbhagta Gurung showed outstanding bravery and a complete disregard for his own safety. His courageous clearing of five enemy positions single-handed was in itself decisive in capturing the objective...
Extracts from London Gazette 5 June 1945
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Exiting reading,
I would love to read the war diary of the units that were on the receiving end and given intimate knowledge of Riflemen Bhanbhagta Gurung AND Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa.
If the germans refered to the 1st SSF as being the "Devil's Brigade", imagine what the Japanese and Germans had to say about the Gurkhas.
I can imagine:
Dear diary, today I had my A$$ served to me on a platter.........
I would love to read the war diary of the units that were on the receiving end and given intimate knowledge of Riflemen Bhanbhagta Gurung AND Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa.
If the germans refered to the 1st SSF as being the "Devil's Brigade", imagine what the Japanese and Germans had to say about the Gurkhas.
I can imagine:
Dear diary, today I had my A$$ served to me on a platter.........
- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
There are some interesting tales of the Gurkha "hunting trips" in North Africa, especially at El Alamein. Rommels boys didn't like them at all.
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 430
daftandbarmy said:
But do isolated instances make the case for the bayonet? One quarter of the CEF Lieutenants who won the VC in the First World War did so while using a Lewis Gun to impose their will upon the enemy, but this doesn't mean that all junior officers should carry an MMG today.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Hmmm....
Lots of fellas in WW1 would sharpen their entrenching tools in preperation for uninvited guests.... using the tools that are at hand
Officers carrying the MMG?...... Eek! No - not best use of MMG though they are supposed to know how to site and use the darned thing.
Lots of fellas in WW1 would sharpen their entrenching tools in preperation for uninvited guests.... using the tools that are at hand
Officers carrying the MMG?...... Eek! No - not best use of MMG though they are supposed to know how to site and use the darned thing.
- Reaction score
- 1,419
- Points
- 1,040
Comparing World War Two usages of the Bayonet with today is not an effective comparison.
In WWII: bolt action rifle meant that if Jerry popped around the corner at your muzzle end, you may not have time to chamber a round, therefore, jab him with bayonet fixed
Today: semi-automatic rifle means that if Timmy pops around the corner at your muzzle end, you simply squeeze the trigger. Weapon jammed? Butt stroke him, kick him, whatever you can do, buying time to put on a fresh mag or whatever the stoppage is.
In WWII: the only thing added to rifles was a bayonet.
Today: SUREFIRE lights, lasers, M203 Grenade launchers and more!
The point is (I love that pun!) is that although ANYTHING that can hurt a bad guy is good (bayonets included), it's a matter of priorities. So, would you rather have a laser pointer you can use to designate targets to machine guns, LAV 3s or Leopards, or a bayonet? An M 203 that can lob HE shells at the enemy, or a bayonet? A surefire light that can be used to spot him in a dark room, with IR filter, so that he cannot see your beam of light, or a bayonet? Unfortunately, it's an "either/or" situation. If it were possible to have all, then fine. Since it's not possible WITH OUR SMALL ARMS FAMILY, then forget it.
In WWII: bolt action rifle meant that if Jerry popped around the corner at your muzzle end, you may not have time to chamber a round, therefore, jab him with bayonet fixed
Today: semi-automatic rifle means that if Timmy pops around the corner at your muzzle end, you simply squeeze the trigger. Weapon jammed? Butt stroke him, kick him, whatever you can do, buying time to put on a fresh mag or whatever the stoppage is.
In WWII: the only thing added to rifles was a bayonet.
Today: SUREFIRE lights, lasers, M203 Grenade launchers and more!
The point is (I love that pun!) is that although ANYTHING that can hurt a bad guy is good (bayonets included), it's a matter of priorities. So, would you rather have a laser pointer you can use to designate targets to machine guns, LAV 3s or Leopards, or a bayonet? An M 203 that can lob HE shells at the enemy, or a bayonet? A surefire light that can be used to spot him in a dark room, with IR filter, so that he cannot see your beam of light, or a bayonet? Unfortunately, it's an "either/or" situation. If it were possible to have all, then fine. Since it's not possible WITH OUR SMALL ARMS FAMILY, then forget it.
- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
Obviously you never mastered the handling drills for your Johnny Seven when you were a kid, Cap.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
My granddad has a great old phrase that his dad used to tell him about the First War and tranch warfare. Its that "The bayonet was rarely used on a man who hadnt surrendered first". Its a nice old line but i'm not sure how accurate it is. Previous posts talk of the comparison of the bolt-action compared to a automatic weapon. I'm sure someone here has mentioned the bayonet charge the Brits in Iraq did a few years ago now.
We know that in the Stan & Iraq right now theres a lot of room clearance happening, to have a big bugger off blade on the end of your weapon not only puts the fear of Jesus into Johnny A-rab and Terry Wrist but is a very effective tool in dealing with them if the situation becomes nescersary.
I'd feel a lot more comfortable knowing that with my rifle and my bayonet i can deal with opposition at close quarters rather then always trusting i'll have enough rounds there to deal with it. Without it you'd find a need for it.
We know that in the Stan & Iraq right now theres a lot of room clearance happening, to have a big bugger off blade on the end of your weapon not only puts the fear of Jesus into Johnny A-rab and Terry Wrist but is a very effective tool in dealing with them if the situation becomes nescersary.
I'd feel a lot more comfortable knowing that with my rifle and my bayonet i can deal with opposition at close quarters rather then always trusting i'll have enough rounds there to deal with it. Without it you'd find a need for it.
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