Benefits Cut...

[smale436]

"If the $550 odd a month is going to be such a hardship, I highly recommend that he ask the staff for an appointment with SISIP, who will help him in sorting out an appropriate budget for his family."

- Pte 1 pay is now $2750 or so. 7 years ago when I was in BMQ as a single guy Pte 1 pay was $2484. I had 82 dollars per month deducted for quarters and 397 for rations. After those deductions and taxes my pays were $678 twice a month. Drawing up a Sisip budget is not going to change the fact that there is likely, if he has kids, more money going out then coming in. I really hope that students and pats are not forced into 3 meal per day 30 days per month rations like I was when in Borden. A friend living in shacks now (post training) says the now "mandatory for living in plan" works well for him on the 1/2 rations plan. He's never there on the weekends and eats cereal/oatmeal type things for breakfast and brown bags a lunch. Commuting to Toronto a lot on weekends while in Borden and buying cereal for my room made me wish we had other options back then. As I was certainly not utilizing $397.00 per month of rations. Luckily Shearwater let me delink entirely while living there for an 8 month course.

 

[buzgo]

I will still go, she's just not going with me...

 

[Strike]

CDNAIRFORCE - you are assuming that his is the only income.  That may be the case but it certainly wasn't mentioned in the original post and many families are double income nowadays.

And remember, quarters (which, granted, doesn't cost that much) is still being covered.

I'd an organization like SISIP can make things easier (maybe not perfect, but at least better) than what's the harm?

 

[George Wallace]

My only concern with this type of consideration is that, as a single guy, i don't want to be the one moving every single APS because the married guy's wife has a job and doesn't want to move.

"You don't want to move because of your wife's career, no problem, we'll just post Bloggins, he's single".

It already happens enough.

Too true; and that has been abused too often as well.  That should be a "Compassionate" and have a detrimental affect on the member's career, as they are not showing commitment/dedication/etc to their employer (the CF).  If your spouse has such a high paying job that you "don't" want to be posted - RELEASE.  Too often others have had less than desirable postings and career progression because of so many of these types 'screwing' them over.  Same goes for the people who "refuse" to go on tour or the women who become pregnant so they can't go on Tour.  Saw 2 SVC Bn pull that one year, where they couldn't get enough Truckers to go on Tour, so all the other units in the Bde had to fill the posns. 

But this takes us off topic.

 

[buzgo]

- Was going to be a flip response but really not worth it....

 

[Adam]

Thank you for the advice,  I'm sure SISSIP and the release section will be very busy at the training bases.

Just a thought for the troops with bad or no credit.  Maybe they can qualify for a student loan?  I wonder if Basic Training qualifies?

Any BPSO's out there?

 

[rampage800]

George really ? I thought the "if the military wanted you to have a wife they'd have issued you one" mentality went out with the whole putting butter on a burn concept.

 

[George Wallace]

Thank you for the advice,  I'm sure SISSIP and the release section will be very busy at the training bases.

Just a thought for the troops with bad or no credit.  Maybe they can qualify for a student loan?  I wonder if Basic Training qualifies?

Any BPSO's out there?

Interesting.  You do know that RECRUITS go through a CREDIT CHECK as part of the enrollment procedure; right?

I know you are also being sarcastic in mentioning a 'student loan'.  Right?

 

[buzgo]

George really ? I thought the "if the military wanted you to have a wife they'd have issued you one" mentality went out with the whole putting butter on a burn concept.

Thats a better response than mine was.

 

[Strike]

George really ? I thought the "if the military wanted you to have a wife they'd have issued you one" mentality went out with the whole putting butter on a burn concept.

That's not what he said.  He was referring to single people getting screwed over and over having to move every couple of years simply because they were single and someone didn't want to uproot the family.

 

[George Wallace]

George really ? I thought the "if the military wanted you to have a wife they'd have issued you one" mentality went out with the whole putting butter on a burn concept.

Really?  Where did I mention "if the military wanted you to have a wife, they'd have issued you one"?  I did say that if a member DID NOT WANT to get posted because their spouse made such a large amount of money in their job, then they should RELEASE.  If you show no dedication to the job, no loyalty to the job, etc. then get out.  Find a civilian job where you can live on your spouse's income.

You come off as sounding like one of the "ME Generation".  As a member of the CF, you should be expected to show some dedication to your profession.  I have seen too many instances where people have refused to be posted for purely personal reasons, such as a spouse's job paying a large wage.  Your refusal to be posted on those grounds only screws over other members.  You are adversely affecting someone else's career.  The question is:  Are you in the military or not?  What are your priorities?  If none are to the CF, then get out. 

 

[armyvern]

That's not what he said.  He was referring to single people getting screwed over and over having to move every couple of years simply because they were single and someone didn't want to uproot the family.

Single people and Married Service Couples (even those MSCs with kids). No one wants to go in February?? Well, we'll just post a single guy or one half of a married service couple instead because neither of those two groups will have a choice or any acceptable excuse. Just sayin'. If neither the single guy nor one half of the MSC wants to go ... well they can just get out then (note sarcasm - but that's the attitude at the career shop)... yet there sitteth the guy who originally didn't want to move and who didn't move still employed by the CF. 

 

[George Wallace]

Yes, Vern it does happen.  What is most aggravating, are the people who have abused it.  The "MIR Commandos of the Posting Season".  We all know some.

 

[armyvern]

- Was going to be a flip response but really not worth it....

I get you; you said you'd go but that you'd go unaccompanied. Nothing wrong with that - you'd still move.

I guess the question is about the "as long as my rent is covered" bit. That's where the whole IR debate comes in to play ... how long should the taxpayer be required to pay your rent because your wife chooses to keep her job? That is an acceptable choice for you to make and for your wife to make. But should the taxpayer be required to subsidize your families choice forever? For a year? For 6 months? It's your choice to do that. Many of us have no choice.

If she has no intent to join you at your new location by date X (or whatever time period) - should the taxpayer even have to subsidize your rent long term? A great many folks from the unwashed masses would say, "nope" (I am one of them).

 

[Journeyman]

That's a better response than mine was.

And just as misquoting as yours was before deleting.

As said by Strike, ArmyVern, and George Wallace, it's not uncommon for single troops and MSC to get screwed over to support the lifestyle of some married troops, 'MIR commandos,' et al. That is not remotely the same as "if the army wanted you to have a wife...."

But don't let lack of comprehension interfere with a good retort.

 

[Strike]

To bring things back to the topic at hand, heard from my coworker, who's on IR because they can't sell their house in Vancouver, that Edmonton has authorized members moving to properties off base if they choose.  He did the math and can head home for the long weekend, buy a beater, live in town and still not pay as much as the rations in shacks after considering the car, insurance, gas, etc.  it will also make it easier for him to visit family on the weekends.

His hope is that the house will sell within the year.

 

[armyvern]

To bring things back to the topic at hand, heard from my coworker, who's on IR because they can't sell their house in Vancouver, that Edmonton has authorized members moving to properties off base if they choose.  He did the math and can head home for the long weekend, buy a beater, live in town and still not pay as much as the rations in shacks after considering the car, insurance, gas, etc.  it will also make it easier for him to visit family on the weekends.

His hope is that the house will sell within the year.

Just had one of our troops manage to sell his that was on the market out there since last APS - just in time as he was on IR until that occurred too. Hopefully, it doesn't take as long for your friend to sell and that he is able to be reunited with his family.

Glad to hear that Edmonton is going to allow their IR pers to live out and thus incur rational meal expenses (thus lower cost of living) from their pockets now vice outrageous mess costs.

They have got to do something for the Prohibited Posted pers in the training system who are forced to live in quarters though. Although I too fall in to the Prohibited Posted group, at least I can live out like your friend above. Our lowest paid troops on prohibited posting status do not have that option. This really sucks for them.

 

[Navy_Pete]

So again, doesn't this come back to enforcing the existing regulations rather then cutting reasonable SE benefits like meal allowances?  I don't think this is a better solution then grabbing a set and dealing with the people playing the current system.  If IR is used for the short term postings like it is supposed to be,  shouldn't be an issue.  There is a even a legitimate business case that it will save the government money.

Short term they will probably alienate enough of the very junior people in the training system to put some of the trades back in the red.  Maybe they'll put an exemption for the guys on Prohibited Postings and cover their meals.

 

[SupersonicMax]

As a member of the CF, you should be expected to show some dedication to your profession. 

And as an employer that demands and orders sacrifices from its members, the CF should show dedication and commitment in return to its most valuable asset... Clearly not happening now.  It is a two-way street, if you want to keep quality personnel in, you need to make some effort in compensating them.  And in this day and age, a pat on the back just won't cut it.  The old "I am dedicated to the CF 100% and would work for free" ain't so anymore.  Money talks and believe it or not, it will keep people happy. 

I agree that the IR system has been abused greatly in the past.  However, penalizing everyone is not the solution. I feel for those on prohibited posting that will essentially have a 900$ gap into their budget as of Sept 1.  It is NOT negligible.

This issue does not affect me, however I find it totally outrageous...

 

[MedCorps]

Someone help me with the math here...

So if a Pte (1) is making $32,000 / year and R&Q for him is $6000 a year it still means that he earns, after is food and accommodation are looked after for him, $26,000. The taxation on $32,000 is $4458 (Ontario) so he is good an clear with $21,542. This might even be higher if he gets some tax breaks / allowances for having children / being in a low income situation.

Now nobody wants to support a family (especially one with a house / children) on $21,542 a year but assuming your wife gets a minimum wage job at 40/hr a week ($17,692 after tax)  and/or you rent a modest place to live (say, $14,000 a year, rent which is tax claimable and you get some back) she is looking at living on $7542 a year if she cannot work or $25234 if she is working.

It is still very doable and there are people in far worse shape in Canada then this couple. Agreed that there is no extravagant living like this, but you can survive for a year or two until R&Q ceases when you are done training (like winning the lotto with an extra $6000 a year and bringing the family income up to $13,754 or $31,234) or you start to move up the pay scale.

All this while getting some useful life skills, maybe some useful technical skills , and the privilege to serve your Queen and country. Medical and dental paid for as well as work clothing and work tools.

It only gets better from being a Pte (1) and assuming he is not a goat turd he will make it to Cpl (4) at $56,796 / year and then his wife can sit at their nice mortgaged house and not work if she does not want or can continue to contribute to the household with her minimum wage $17,692 a year job and have a gross family income that puts him in pretty good shape (but still less than the national average). Things only get better if wife can find a better job than minimum wage.

Being in the Pte (1) suck is only a one year gig and might be part of the lived experience for him and his family.

As Napoleon said: "Povery, privation and want are the schools of a good soldier". 

MC