Benefits Cut...

[Cdnleaf]

Sweet! Unwavering faith in the chain of command pays off.

See you in six months after 10 Cajun chicken breasts and cheese / day.  ;D

 

[Journeyman]

You are covered by this brief reprieve, and hopefully the higher CoC individual's can make more progress in the window of time created.

Each person involved now has an opportunity to 'seek out and accept responsibility.' Otherwise, how many troops are going to get bit with this a few months down the road because they sat back, doing nothing more than wishing the CoC would make this boogeyman simply go away, rather than making some fiscal adjustments on their own?

 

[Ostrozac]

Paragraph 4 of the most recent CANFORGEN is interesting.

4.  IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT PERSONNEL PROCEEDING ON SHORT TERM ASSIGNMENTS OR TRAINING OF LESS THAN ONE YEAR THAT REQUIRE TEMPORARY GEOGRAPHIC RELOCATION CANNOT REASONABLY BE EXPECTED TO UPROOT THEIR FAMILIES. THE CF HAS AT ITS DISPOSAL A NUMBER OF ASSIGNMENT POLICIES (ATTACHED POSTING, TEMPORARY DUTY) THAT WILL ENSURE THAT THESE PERSONNEL ARE PROVIDED WITH APPROPRIATE SUPPORT DURING THESE SHORT TERM RELOCATIONS AND THAT FAMILIES ARE NOT SUBJECTED TO UNDUE ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL PRESSURE. SPECIFICALLY, PERSONNEL ON SHORT TERM ASSIGNMENTS MAY BE ATTACH POSTED AND THEREFORE ELIGIBLE TO BENEFITS UNDER REF B. ALONG THESE LINES, CAREER MANAGEMENT AUTHORITIES, IN CONCERT WITH FORCE GENERATORS, WILL EXPLORE INNOVATIVE METHODS TO MINIMIZE THE EFFECTS OF THE SE CHANGES BY REMAINING VIGILANT FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO REDUCE THE DEMAND FOR PERSONNEL TO BE SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES FOR PROTRACTED PERIODS

This implies that short-term ATL postings (CFC Toronto, year-long french courses, tech staff) that often had candidates posted on IR will now have their trainees on Attached Posting or TD. The cost of which would likely be greater than the previous cost of maintaining pers on IR status. I wonder if joining instructions (for say, ATWO at RMC) will specify to Attach Post married pers and Post single pers, or if they have even thought that far ahead.

So if the purpose of this change is to save money -- it may not actually save too much, if instead of using IR we use more Attached Posting and TD. This whole plan doesn't seem to have been wargamed out in detail. There are just too many gaps in it.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

This implies that short-term ATL postings (CFC Toronto, year-long french courses, tech staff) that often had candidates posted on IR will now have their trainees on Attached Posting or TD.

Your quote implies that one year is a short term posting.  From 2006 to 2010 my wife and I moved four times - a two year posting, a one year posting, another one year posting, and then posted to my curent location.  In 24 years of service, I have moved twelve times, eight of them with my son until he decided to stay in location and start his own life.

All of that to say that I would imagine (but do not know for certain) that the policy does not see a one year posting (at which point one becomes entitlesd to a cost move) as "short-term".

 

[armyvern]

...
All of that to say that I would imagine (but do not know for certain) that the policy does not see a one year posting (at which point one becomes entitlesd to a cost move) as "short-term".

+100

I hear you; perhaps the CF needs to redefine it's definition of "short-term".

Like yourself, I have had postings to 7 bases since 2003. Not because I was fired or incompetent, but because I was posted to fill positions of pers in one-ofs who were CFRing, releasing or being court-martialled; twice in the middle of the winter. Only this most recent posting is a 2 year position, one was for year-long course. All the rest should have been "normal moves" involving staying at that spot for a "greater than 2 year time period".

During same time period, I spent 5 months attached posted in Edmonton (it is not one of the 7 postings I've stated) and have done 2 X 10 month tours.

As none of these spots was "short term", had I been married to non-svc spouse it would have involved the CF paying for 7 X cost moves for my family in 9 years. As it is, because I am a svc spouse, the CF is saving beaucoup d'argent by moving me instead. 1/2 months posting allowance and the costs of my rent/SE comes nowhere close to what it would have cost them to move another family like this, this often.

Much cheaper to post unaccompanied personnel heading in to 2 year stints and I understand that situation. But, when this is occurring to pers like me who were not going to 2 year command/line positions for example, there is a flaw in our system. This seems to be normal for quite a few MSCs I know who are not in those 2 year positions (I believe PMedMoe has moved just as often as 1/2 of a MSC). Moves every 18 months or so --- from place to place wondering if the CF ever has any intent of attempting to eventually relocate us with our Svc Spouse.

When someone can show me a MCpl, Sgt or WO married to civilian in "everyday jobs" who has been subject to same, then I'll consider my MWO spouse equivilent to a civilian. And, although I have always been the member sent away unaccompanied while F&E remained with spouse, even he too has been subjected to being posted in the middle of winter as the other 1/2 of this MSC with the "COS date is release date if you don't go caveat".

If the system wants to say that MSCs are just like anybody else with a civilian spouse, then the system itself should start treating us the same and cease and desist posting us under threat while NCM X of same rank/trade married to civilian is never subject to postings every 18 months to "solve" problems for the CF.

I totally understand this the higher one goes in rank, the lesser positions and the shorter the term of the position. I've living like this since I was a MCpl though and I find that very very curious indeed.

I am now in my longest posting since 2003 ... at 2.5 years at this Unit --- even after taking away the 15 months pre-deployment trg and deployment. Wow.

 

[Ostrozac]

It was the CANFORGEN that chose to describe less than one-year assignments and training as "short term", not me. I am well aware that there is no minimum length of a posting. A career manager can, in theory, cost move you, then cost move you three months later when you get promoted, then cost move you again three months later when your new unit is disbanded and new position deleted. I've had five cost moves in the last ten years, so I'm nowhere near the pace of some of you.

Given that current policy limits an Attached Posting to 364 days, and TD to 180 days, I infer that will be one factor that will drive future decisions on which ATL positions will receive cost moves and which will be Attach Posted/TD.

 

[Donny]

Does this mean new members don't have to pay for their rations while in BMQ/BMOQ till Feb 1st?

 

[armyvern]

Does this mean new members don't have to pay for their rations while in BMQ/BMOQ till Feb 1st?

Correct.

 

[Donny]

Correct.

Thats good news!
thank you for the quick reply

 

[4Feathers]

Each person involved now has an opportunity to 'seek out and accept responsibility.' Otherwise, how many troops are going to get bit with this a few months down the road because they sat back, doing nothing more than wishing the CoC would make this boogeyman simply go away, rather than making some fiscal adjustments on their own?

That is truly the bottom line here. DCBA conf in Ottawa in Sep should be interesting.

 

[armyvern]

That is truly the bottom line here. DCBA conf in Ottawa in Sep should be interesting.

That CANFORGEN reads to me exactly as if it is indeed going to make it go away for a lot of the pers affected. Using TD and Attached Posted for example for 'short term' courses, BTL, ATL.

The only pers the problem isn't "going away" for are MSCs and those proceeding on unaccompanied postings; and, those who are IR.

Nevertheless, should be an interesting conference indeed.

 

[Jarnhamar]

See you in six months after 10 Cajun chicken breasts and cheese / day.  ;D

I do this in the name of science and protest

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The point I was trying to make originally was why do we think our chosen career is more important than anybody elses, and if we expect non military spouses to give up a career, maybe we should expect the same of military spouses, or live with the consequences of personal choice - which may be to GTFO.

By the way, I don't agree with the changes that have been made. I think that when members are sperated from families for valid, approved reasons (personal or not), then IR and SE benefits should be provided, for a limited time (which for MSCs might be the duration of a posting).

For EITS - If you disagree with an opinion and want to deduct milpoints, at least have the balls to post it online.

Seriously?  :  You have your panties in a wad over MilPoints?  :'( 

Few additional points, for clarity.  **NOTE** I'd simply of PMd you, but that might have you questioning my balls, etc so...for everyone to see "online".

1.  I replied to your first post here, where I (politely) indicated I disagreed and why. You then tried to clarify your thoughts, although anyone with half the sense God gave a wheelbarrow already knew what you meant.  Rather than send a PM, or post something of no value added to the thread, I *gasp* decided to do the horrible act of -300 MilPoints.  So, my question to you is, what in your opinion was wrong with that exactly?  What should I have done then?  As a leader, certainly you are familiar with the concept of not only identifying a problem, but suggesting a solution as well.  I'm all ears.

2.  WRT your contention of 'if I have the balls to disagree with an opinion and the question of my balls being big enough to do it online'.  I was on my computer, which was connected to the InterNet, which was used to connect my laptop to this website, which I believe constitutes "online".  If it doesn't, please, educate me on what "online" is.  As for my -MilPoints and comments as to why, they are on your MilPoints page for all to see, so I'd say its fairly safe to say that the online/publicly/have I got the balls question you seem to have about me can be considered "clarified".  If I've broken some site rule by the -MilPoints, please contact a moderator and they can sort me out.

3.  I'll have to be honest and state, publicly, online (so you don't question if I have balls, etc...) that when I read your post the first time, I actually laughed, because it made me think of this movie scene.  (Its worth the 3 minutes, IMO).  So, thanks for the chuckle WRT to that!

:waiting:

 

[birdgunnnersrule]

The latest CANFORGEN, although welcomed, does not alleviate any of the issues associated for those that are on Imposed Restriction less a short term reprieve.  I suspect that many families will not choose to up root themselves in the middle of the school year to reunite by Feb 2013.  Although TB driven, it is very disheartening that the social contract was broken and only aligned with the intervention at the last minute before its implementation.  It provides some time for the chain of command to react to posting request and to allow 'individuals' to assess their own situation before making a decision that is in their best interest.  I foresee a delay in release requests until just before the holidays so that folks that are caught by the policy changes have the opportunity to look at the various courses of actions and the career management system can accommodate an influx of posting requests.

As for the MSC, you must be extremely patient and understanding.  With only one in the service, it is very difficult to balance the family commitments and I cannot fathom the challenges that are faced with two serving members in a family.

I am sure that I will get the suck it up buttercup treatment or the GTFO attitude that has ebbed and flowed throughout this thread.  Folks it is 2012, dual income families are a necessity, schools, health care, and a host of other considerations come into play when decisions are made regarding the family decision to proceed on imposed restriction.  If folks are going on IR for financial gain, than perhaps it is time that you reevaluate your career choice or get some financial counselling.  No issue with a removal or reduction of the SE, however, very concerned with the rations issue for those on bases that have facilities that have inadequate food preparation areas or are locked into a ration plan that exceeds the family monthly budget for groceries at home.   

 

[armyvern]

The latest CANFORGEN, although welcomed, does not alleviate any of the issues associated for those that are on Imposed Restriction less a short term reprieve.  I suspect that many families will not choose to up root themselves in the middle of the school year to reunite by Feb 2013.  Although TB driven, it is very disheartening that the social contract was broken and only aligned with the intervention at the last minute before its implementation.  It provides some time for the chain of command to react to posting request and to allow 'individuals' to assess their own situation before making a decision that is in their best interest.  I foresee a delay in release requests until just before the holidays so that folks that are caught by the policy changes have the opportunity to look at the various courses of actions and the career management system can accommodate an influx of posting requests.

As for the MSC, you must be extremely patient and understanding.  With only one in the service, it is very difficult to balance the family commitments and I cannot fathom the challenges that are faced with two serving members in a family.

I am sure that I will get the suck it up buttercup treatment or the GTFO attitude that has ebbed and flowed throughout this thread.  Folks it is 2012, dual income families are a necessity, schools, health care, and a host of other considerations come into play when decisions are made regarding the family decision to proceed on imposed restriction.  If folks are going on IR for financial gain, than perhaps it is time that you reevaluate your career choice or get some financial counselling.  No issue with a removal or reduction of the SE, however, very concerned with the rations issue for those on bases that have facilities that have inadequate food preparation areas or are locked into a ration plan that exceeds the family monthly budget for groceries at home. 

Excellent post. As 1/2 of a MSC, I am looking into the only available option for MSCs given in your para 1 - release. Indeed, we are not the same as other's families who get to choose from your many stated options under the circumstances. We have but one, go or get out. Have booked onto a SCAN seminar in two weeks time; it's full already. Sad day for me, but for my family --- they are actually the family that will still be there for me after my release, and have been the family that have stood by me throughout my use as a cheap/easy problem solving solution by careers and ergo the CF at large. Already have a B Class job opportunity too --- 80%, forego my pension, but family together at long last and well-deservedly so.

Good luck to all the other MSCs who may choose to stick it out in the RegF in the future. I fear for you as you guys are now the cheapest option, by far, for the CF to solve it's whenever, wherever and for whatever issues with given you have only one choice and are always the first ones approached to go at any time, anywhere (it's more than a little ironic that it is precisely you who are willing, and do, live by that CF mantra of "Country first, family second" and that now you will suffer for it even more by being sent unaccompanied more often as a cost savings measure and will pay out of your own pockets for it else be told to GTFO). I feel for you.

 

[aesop081]

are always the first ones approached to go at any time, anywhere. I feel for you.

Vern, do not worry too much. MSCs can relax a little in the knowledge that there is one CF demographic that will get the bone even more and take the brunt of all this:

People like me.

 

[krustyrl]

Have booked onto a SCAN seminar in two weeks time; it's full already.

Most SCAN seminars I've been often fill up early but when it comes to going, there are quite often seats open.  I book early as I'm on a 3b but just what I've seen most times.  If you're really wanting to go, might be worth a check and see.?

 

[armyvern]

Vern, do not worry too much. MSCs can relax a little in the knowledge that there is one CF demographic that will get the bone even more and take the brunt of all this:

People like me.

MSCs and single guys (I already addressed the single guy/no dependents in another post). MSCs will be asked told first though, as they most often are now,  because they constitute a "no cost move" - that's why they already get posted unaccompanied (and mid-winter too) more often instead of single guys the CF has to pay to move their F&E and collecting a full month's pay every 18 months - 2 years.

Sadly, MSCs are the cheapest option out there.

 

[armyvern]

Most SCAN seminars I've been often fill up early but when it comes to going, there are quite often seats open.  I book early as I'm on a 3b but just what I've seen most times.  If you're really wanting to go, might be worth a check and see.?

I'm booked.

 

[krustyrl]

Ahhh.. misread ...sorry. Just tryin' to help.!