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Berlin Mulls Deploying Spy Jets to Southern Afghanistan

vonGarvin

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http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,456013,00.html

"It happened faster than expected: NATO has requested in a confidential letter that the German military deploy German Tornado surveillance and fighter jets to Afghanistan. Berlin has agreed to comply -- and the German parliament will not be given a chance to debate the matter."

"Between Christmas and New Year, US C-17 transport planes will unload heavy German Marder tanks at the German military's central headquarters in Mazar-e-Sharif."

My Note: the "Marder" is not a tank, for those who don't know, but a MICV (Mechanised Infantry Combat Vehicle).  It is roughly 37 tons, very heavily armoured and armed with a 20mm cannon and 7.62mm coax.  Given the high mine threat in theatre, one could imagine that the Marder 1A5 would be deployed.  Rheinmetall only made 74 of these variants, and they were deployed for some time to Kosovo.  The Marder was designed to fight wave after wave of Russians, and therefore it is very heavily protected.  There is a replacement in the works.


"The German air force, the Luftwaffe, put together a "small package" of six Tornados and 250 ground troops that could be stationed in Kabul or Mazar-e-Sharif by late spring."
 
"Between Christmas and New Year, US C-17 transport planes will unload heavy German Marder tanks at the German military's central headquarters in Mazar-e-Sharif."

:rofl:

And what conceivable good will they do there?  Join the rest of the German contingent behind the wire?
 
Probably more for NATO's sake that for effective use in A'stan:
"What do you mean we are doing nothing?  We have Marders in theatre....."
::)
 
They may also be trying to get around the "national caveats" by bringing in troops and equipment to free up other NATO troops to go down south.  If they can expand their area of responsibility then others can move around.  Also, the use of the Luftwaffe for surveillance in the south I don't believe violates their caveat and enhances our ability to catch the bad guys in the border regions.  It is not an ideal situation but finding away around some of the politics is better than nothing. 
 
They're not freeing up anyone.  MeS has been a German camp since the Germans entered theatre.  They have a well-earned reputation for doing nothing, even in this benign part of the country:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,450397-2,00.html

At first glance, the activities of the German soldiers in Mazar-e-Sharif seems a little odd. Hardly any of the 1,380 German soldiers who have come to Camp Marmal so far have left the giant barracks to date. They keep the cafeteria running, take care of vehicles and logistics and stand guard -- not to forget cultivation of the nursery.

Soldiers patrol in vehicles outside -- mainly to secure the camp. They distribute schoolbooks and pens to children in the city, chat with merchants and passersby, smile and wave a lot. When the largest hospital in Mazar-e-Sharif burned down in September, they were there to help out with doctors, medication and tents.

*snip*

Mazar-e-Sharif is booming. Construction and repair work is going on everywhere. Cars and horse-drawn carts make their way through the bazaar, where farmers sell fresh apples and tangerines. There's cheap make-up from China, men's suits from Tajikistan and colorful enamel houseware from Uzbekistan. Everything seems relatively peaceful.

*snip*

And the Germans in the north? It may be a little cowardly to stay up there and radiate a feeling of security, dig a few waterholes, calm down a few of the warlords and cultivate trees.

But it may also just be smart.

As for the incredibly low-risk deployment of reconnaissance aircraft, even that's causing great angst:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,456068,00.html

Deployment of German Planes to Afghanistan Sharply Criticized

By Severin Weiland in Berlin

NATO has asked for six German fighter jets in Afghanistan's conflict-riddled south. Sharp criticism of the request is now being voiced in the German parliament. The Defense Ministry insists no decision has been made so far.

A NATO request for German "Tornado" jets in Afghanistan has kicked up dust in the German parliament.

A NATO request for German Tornado jets in Afghanistan goes "far beyond the limits" of the mandate the German military received from the German parliament, said Winfried Nachtwei, the German Green Party's parliamentiary expert on defense issues, in a sharply-worded conversation with SPIEGEL ONLINE on Thursday.

Nachtwei believes a parliamentary vote is indispensable if the government should decide to expand the German military's commitment to NATO operations in Afghanistan.

The idea of "mission creep" in Afghanistan is sensitive in Germany, where the military has been asked by more and more nations to and international organizations help stabilize trouble spots since 1998. Nachtwei's colleague Birgit Homburger, a parliamentary expert on defense for the conservative and business-friendly Free Democratic Party(FDP), was also critical. She said the mandate for Germany's participation in NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) required a limit to the extent and duration of the German mission. "The federal government has to make sure this limit is not superseded," she told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Homburger added that the government should verify whether other states could perform the surveillance operations Germany is being asked to carry out -- and if so, to what extent.

SPIEGEL has learned that NATO has requested German Tornado reconnaissance planes for deployment in the conflict-riddled southern region of Afghanistan. The request was made in a confidential letter addressed to the German military's General Inspector, Wolfgang Schneiderhan, by NATO's Deputy Supreme Commander for Europe and Afghanistan, Sir John Reith.

Also according to information obtained by SPIEGEL, the German government wants to avoid requesting a new mandate from the Bundestag, Germany's federal parliament, for fear of stirring controversy. It has simply tried to inform the parliamentary leaders of the various parties (and their defense experts) that six Tornado jets could be stationed in Kabul or in Mazar-e-Sharif in late spring.

Fear and denial

Chancellor Angela Merkel was still resisting calls for the deployment of German troops to Afghanistan's dangerous south during the NATO summit in Riga at the end of November. The Bundestag mandate calls for the roughly 3,000 German soldiers to remain in the relatively quiet north. But even before the summit, there was speculation in Berlin as to whether the German government shouldn't just provide Tornado jets. It seems likely that this option will be followed.

Still, the German government was quick to deny on Thursday that an expansion of German military involvement had been decided on, claiming that neither the Defense Ministry nor the federal government had reached a final decision. "We're still evaluating," said a Defense Ministry spokesperson.

But the idea of Tornado jets deployed in southern Afghanistan has alarmed the parliamentary opposition. FDP politician Homburger criticized the federal government's sharing of information. Apparently the NATO request arrived in Berlin on Dec. 11, but the government failed to inform even the chairmen of the Bundestag's defense commission during the final week of parliament sessions before Christmas. "This is a remarkable development," said Homburger. "The federal government is obviously sticking to its standard practice of not informing parliament quickly and comprehensively."

Doubts about "Enduring Freedom"

Green Party member Nachtwei says the support requested by NATO clearly includes assistance for combat operations -- to be provided by the Tornado reconnaissance planes. The government would then actively support a NATO mission that puts combat operations ahead of reconstruction, according to Nachtwei. "I have serious doubts as to whether the parliamentary faction of the Green Party can agree to that," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Homburger didn't want to make definite statements on the FDP's stance toward NATO's request. She said the party would undertake an "unbiased evaluation" of whatever the government proposes.

In past Bundestag votes, the FDP has agreed to both the extension of NATO's "Enduring Freedom" operation and the extension of the ISAF mandate. In the Green Party's view, however, the US-led anti-terrorism operation is irreconcilable with ISAF's goal of contributing to both military security and reconstruction in Afghanistan.

Nachtwei told SPIEGEL ONLINE, "This is the hour of truth for the federal government, because it now has to give an assessment of ISAF strategy in southern Afghanistan." The issue needs to be negotiated on the political level represented by NATO, Nachtwei said. Until now, ISAF's strategy has been developed exclusively within NATO central headquarters.


Criticism was also came from a parliamentary member from Germany's conservative Christian Democrat Party (CDU) and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU). "It's a hostile act by the government towards parliament to take action on this point without allowing a debate on how sensible the Afghanistan mission is -- a debate that is ongoing in all parliamentary factions -- to develop," Willy Wimmer, the former parliamentary state secretary in the Defense Ministry, told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Deploying Tornado jets would give German military operations in Afghanistan a "new quality," Wimmer said, adding that the Tornado is a combat aircraft "that can shoot -- and not just pictures." Wimmer has long been considered one of the sharpest critics of the German military presence in Afghanistan. He views NATO's request for German planes as "the usual attempt by NATO to drag the German military slowly into southern Afghanistan."

Meanwhile, the German Foreign Ministry has commented approvingly on NATO's request. "I believe there is a basic willingness to provide such a reconnaissance service," Gernot Erler, a state secretary at the Foreign Ministry, told German public radio station Deutschlandfunk. No change in the current mandate is required to fulfill the new plans, Erler claimed.

If they're unwilling to participate in a meaningful fashion, they should stay home.  Fast-air recce isn't exactly a mission-critical capability.  From their lukewarm participation in Kabul, to their do-nothing stance in MeS, to their completely inadequate attempts to "train" the ANP, the Germans haven't exactly stepped up to the plate.
 
Germany is the most powerful nation in Europe.  It is still struggling with the burden on the national conscience of WWII. The war from 1914 to 1989 is over. It is imperative that Germany with it's industrial and economic wealth step up to it's international responsibilities. The Chancellor, a product of a repressive communist state, does not appear to be the right Chancellor for the challenges facing Germany at this time, internally or externally.  This is not to imply that Germany should go full bore in Afghanistan, that is a decision for the government of the day to make. The present contribution might be a satisfactory political compromise, but it falls short as a military contribution from a country of Germany's potential.
 
Baden  Guy said:
Germany is the most powerful nation in Europe.  It is still struggling with the burden on the national conscience of WWII. The war from 1914 to 1989 is over. It is imperative that Germany with it's industrial and economic wealth step up to it's international responsibilities. The Chancellor, a product of a repressive communist state, does not appear to be the right Chancellor for the challenges facing Germany at this time, internally or externally.  This is not to imply that Germany should go full bore in Afghanistan, that is a decision for the government of the day to make. The present contribution might be a satisfactory political compromise, but it falls short as a military contribution from a country of Germany's potential.

Yes, and that puts it mildly.

Think wat Schroder would have done if he had won the last national German elections :-X.

Anyway, I wonder why all of a sudden the use of the term "NATO-solidarity" isn't applied anymore by the Germans? ::) They sure used it a lot during the Cold War when if there would be war with the Warsawpact  other countries would have to fight on THEIR soil and sacrifice troops there.

What's worse, they actually critisize what OUR countries are doing in the south, while they are sitting in their "tourist" camps in the north where virtually nothing happens :mad:. Maybe we should exchange places with them and let them try their "approach" in the South, while our troops take a brake in the north?

Regards,

Mourning 8)
 
Personally, I found the glee that greeted Germany's weaseling out of further deployments (at the recent NATO summit) intellectually and morally repugnant - but it may be just me.  I'm a tad biased.

Mourning:  exactly.
 
Baden  Guy said:
Germany is the most powerful nation in Europe.  It is still struggling with the burden on the national conscience of WWII. The war from 1914 to 1989 is over. It is imperative that Germany with it's industrial and economic wealth step up to it's international responsibilities. The Chancellor, a product of a repressive communist state, does not appear to be the right Chancellor for the challenges facing Germany at this time, internally or externally.  This is not to imply that Germany should go full bore in Afghanistan, that is a decision for the government of the day to make. The present contribution might be a satisfactory political compromise, but it falls short as a military contribution from a country of Germany's potential.

Whoa There!  Baden Guy

Germany was the most powerful nation in Europe, but lost a lot of clout when the Wall came down and they had Reunification and more or less doubled their Welfare Rolls.  They have allowed all persons claiming "German ancestry" to return and have Citizenship.  This brought in many Russians and Poles and such, some of whom have come for the 'free ride', some have brought in the 'Russian Mafia', and others have created other social problems.  The German Government also relaxed it's Laws on "Guest Workers" and now permits them to own property and businesses.  The 'Face of Germany' has changed greatly since 1990.  It will take a couple of generations before it returns to any of its' former 'glory' that it had in the 1980's.
 
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