Blank holes in Ottawa-NDHQ Mad About Sunshine "Soldiers"

[Jarnhamar]

Ah right on. I hear you then.   I've approached a few reg force soldiers in kingston and tried to be diplomatic ie. hey man not to be a goof but do you really think it looks professional eating a hamburger while walking down the street or spitting in public?  
Or going up to guys in uniform (in the food court at the cat center) telling them to cut out the swearing .   I think 99% of the time the guys didn't even realise what they were doing.

if someone is being a dink with an attitude thats one thing, if a soldier is just correcting a fault thats another.

 

[291er]

I have nothing against reservists, I'm an ex-reserve Infanteer myself so that did not matter to me at all.  And although a dress infraction, there are circumstances, I would rather break a dress infraction than hit the ground in theatre with boots that are'nt broken in.  And I made sure to get approval all the way up my chain of command before doing so.  I would not just go off and do this on my own initiative, I made sure I got approval fm people with a lot more stripes and bars on their shoulders than I.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Just my take, but I think what the article does do is show exactly how f'd up NDHQ's priorities are.

How many years to replace the Sea King?
How many years to replace Protecteur-class?
How many years spent on CADRE?
How many years to complete F-18 upgrades?
How many years to get desert CADPAT?

But on this, and the guy they promised LTD pay and have now reneg'd, they leap into action.

I love my country but if that doesn't signify the need for a serious culture shift at NDHQ, I don't know what does.




Matthew.    ???

P.S.   The only way I see that culture shift taking place is a new federal government followed by some quick and
painful restructuring and firings on merit.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Just my take, but I think what the article does do is show exactly how f'd up NDHQ's priorities are.

How many years to replace the Sea King?
How many years to replace Protecteur-class?
How many years spent on CADRE?
How many years to complete F-18 upgrades?
How many years to get desert CADPAT?

But on this, and the guy they promised LTD pay and have now reneg'd, they leap into action.

I love my country but if that doesn't signify the need for a serious culture shift at NDHQ, I don't know what does.




Matthew.    ???

P.S.   The only way I see that culture shift taking place is a new federal government followed by some quick and
painful restructuring and firings on merit.

Cdn Blackshirt, if you haven't actually served, or indeed, set foot inside NDHQ, maybe you need to talk a lot less about things you couldn't possibly know about.  I get the feeling that list includes just about every thread on this board.  Not that I claim to have served at NDHQ - I did visit there this summer FWIW - but I am not jumping up and down like an unwashed cretin, either.

Do you really think that some guy whose duties include the use of our corporate imagery would have any connection whatsoever to major equipment procurement?  Get a grip on reality.  The government controls the purse strings, in case you've forgotten.  I would argue also that Arid pattern CADPAT hasn't been necessary with some minor exceptions, certainly less necessary than much of the other good stuff we have been getting over the last 15 years or so.

Until you've got some actual managerial experience under your belt, I don't think you're in a position to comment in sweeping generalities.

If it really bothers you so much, why not write to the officer mentioned in the article - his email is available through the CF email system - and demand that he stop his current activities and hop right on the new equipment procurement.  See what he tells you, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Cdn Blackshirt, if you haven't actually served, or indeed, set foot inside NDHQ, maybe you need to talk a lot less about things you couldn't possibly know about.   I get the feeling that list includes just about every thread on this board.   Not that I claim to have served at NDHQ - I did visit there this summer FWIW - but I am not jumping up and down like an unwashed cretin, either.

Do you really think that some guy whose duties include the use of our corporate imagery would have any connection whatsoever to major equipment procurement?   Get a grip on reality.   The government controls the purse strings, in case you've forgotten.   I would argue also that Arid pattern CADPAT hasn't been necessary with some minor exceptions, certainly less necessary than much of the other good stuff we have been getting over the last 15 years or so.

Until you've got some actual managerial experience under your belt, I don't think you're in a position to comment in sweeping generalities.

If it really bothers you so much, why not write to the officer mentioned in the article - his email is available through the CF email system - and demand that he stop his current activities and hop right on the new equipment procurement.   See what he tells you, I'd love to hear about it.

Dear Michael,

I currently run two mid-sized businesses that gross about $1.5 million per year and count companies like Suncor, Syncrude and Magna
as some of my clients, so you can take the "actual managerial experience under my belt" comment and decide how you'd like to
rephrase it as it is grossly inaccurate.

The one thing I have learned from my experience is that the ability to set priorities and allocate assets is absolutely essential to the
long term success or failure of your corporation and I can walk into any corporation and look at its historical decision-making pattern
to determine if they get it, or they don't.

In this case the decisionmakers at NDHQ as well as the Liberal Government who control the pursestrings obviously do not.  

Have a look at the last Australian Annual Review in comparison.  

Link:   http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/02-03/dar/pdf/dar0203full.pdf

....and if you can't see the difference, you're not looking.

Lastly, in regards to emailing the specific officer, what's the point?   He is doing his job.  

The whole point of my post is that it is the underlying structure and culture from top-down that are failing both the
men and women in uniform, and the citizens of our country.

Bottom Line:   Get off your high horse Michael.   Your last post only made you look like an ass....



Matthew.    

P.S.   I read your last published article (Calgary Sun I believe) and you're much better than your last post.   I hope
after reading what I attempted to keep as a civil and thoughtful response that you reconsider your use of the
term "unwashed cretin".    

 

[Jarnhamar]

I currently run two mid-sized businesses that gross about $1.5 million per year

I think we found a possible solution to our bandwidth problem...

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well, I need to revise my statement then.   Instead of "unless you have managerial experience under your belt you are in no position to generalize", change to "even with your managerial experience, you are in no position to generalize."

Not sure what the link was supposed to prove.   Your arguments do not follow.   You posted a litany of major equipment purchases and then used the one officer (whom you admit "was only doing his job") as evidence that DND as a whole doesn't have its priorities in order.

What you fail to realize is that DND doesn't control the money.   You could fire the good major tomorrow and still wouldn't save enough money to refit a single jet fighter or purchase a single new helicopter.

Frankly, the gnashing of teeth about Ottawa and its "culture" - which you seem to know so much about - is getting tiresome and old.

I'd much prefer that DND move too far in one direction (suggesting that the use of uniforms in calendars is inappropriate) rather than the other (perhaps a fuzzy DND mascot to show up at all major league baseball, hockey and football events, Dead Peacekeeper trading cards, CADPAT uniforms for prison chain gangs working on major highways....the mind boggles).

As for pissing and moaning about life in the CF, I'll confine my complaints to areas I've actually served in, and send them properly up the chain of command.   The rest I'll leave in the hands of those who know better.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Michael, um, I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but I find your defense of the inhabitants of NDHQ somewhat puzzling.

No, DND does not control the money, but it does set priorities, based on need, one would presume.  To set these priorities, one would have to have goals, even short term goals, one would think.

And yet, in just the last few years, we have spent gazillions of dollars on projects that have gone, to be blunt, in to the garbage can.  Examples?  The Leopard Thermal Sight Upgrade project, completed just a few years ago,  Another?  The M113 upgrade project.  And there are more, as I know you are well aware.  Very shortly after these projects were announced, and funded, the decision was made to go to an all-wheeled army.

Does this make you feel confident that our leaders know what they are doing?  It makes me wonder about the leadership in the army, and I know that I am not alone in my head scratching.

And yet, you say that the gnashing of teeth about Ottawa is getting tiresome and old.  How so?  Are the problems in Ottawa corrected? 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Problems corrected?  I wasn't aware that pissing and moaning on an open forum would correct anything, if you see my point.

It's all a matter of presentation - you just named two good examples (I presume, don't know much about them).  Compare to the other argument in this thread - "We haven't had the Sea Kings replaced in years therefore no one at NDHQ should be doing anything else."  It's a dumb argument.  And why drag it into a thread about corporate imagery.  It's intellectual bankruptcy.  If you want to complain about procurement issues, start a new thread.  And we can all go around and around in circles and solve all the Army's problems and then complain because no in NDHQ pisses standing up or are half as smart as we are.

I can only go by personal experience; I too was in management for about a year.  I was lucky enough to have started in the company at the lowest levels. I was openly critical of management, and promised myself if I ever got the chance, things would change.  Guess what - a week after my promotion, nothing changed, and my eyes opened, and I did things very much like my predecessors had.  Not because I had to, but because they were the right way to do things that my former co-workers, now employees, wouldn't understand.

I would love for some NDHQ types come onto the board and actually discuss openly and honestly some of the policy decisions, though we all know for security reasons that won't happen.  But you know, as long as everyone here acts like a dickhead, flings faeces at the Ivory Tower in Ottawa and generally insults every policy decision made, I wouldn't blame the decisions makers for throwing their hands in the air.  I certainly went through that as a manager (of a very small company) - give the staff one thing and it isn't good enough because they want ten more.

Now, if anyone has an intelligent and reasoned explanation as to why an officer at NDHQ charged with protecting our corporate image should in any way be connected to a discussion of procurement policies, please present it now.
Otherwise, lay off the whining and crying, it isnt' doing anyone a damn bit of good.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Well, I need to revise my statement then.   Instead of "unless you have managerial experience under your belt you are in no position to generalize", change to "even with your managerial experience, you are in no position to generalize."

Not sure what the link was supposed to prove.   Your arguments do not follow.   You posted a litany of major equipment purchases and then used the one officer (whom you admit "was only doing his job") as evidence that DND as a whole doesn't have its priorities in order.

What you fail to realize is that DND doesn't control the money.   You could fire the good major tomorrow and still wouldn't save enough money to refit a single jet fighter or purchase a single new helicopter.

Frankly, the gnashing of teeth about Ottawa and its "culture" - which you seem to know so much about - is getting tiresome and old.

I'd much prefer that DND move too far in one direction (suggesting that the use of uniforms in calendars is inappropriate) rather than the other (perhaps a fuzzy DND mascot to show up at all major league baseball, hockey and football events, Dead Peacekeeper trading cards, CADPAT uniforms for prison chain gangs working on major highways....the mind boggles).

As for pissing and moaning about life in the CF, I'll confine my complaints to areas I've actually served in, and send them properly up the chain of command.   The rest I'll leave in the hands of those who know better.

So your contention is that unless you're CF or CF veteran, regardless of management or business education or experience, you have no right to make critical
observations, assessments, etc.?

Let me blunt and say that is totally absurd.

Do you complain about your computer?  Have you ever built one?  How about your car?  Your house?  

In regards my listing major equipment programs as evidence NDHQ doesn't have its priorities straight, I stand by that contention.

In all those programs NDHQ spent a small fortune on teams of individuals to research the project prior to budget funding was ever allocated.

Look at CADRE specifically.  How much was spent?  If it gets cancelled what's our ROI?  

KEY POINT:  "How could that money have been better spent if NDHQ was structured to only research funded projects?"

CASR did a great analysis of this specific problem in November of 2003.

I'll post it as per the Australian Report:  http://www.sfu.ca/casr/ft-advisory1-1.htm

And in regards to the Australian Report which you ignored, it's focus is on measuring ROI for the taxpayer in context of
a deliverable effective fighting force.  Have you looked at Defence Department Financials lately?  They are a mess and
provide zero clarity on what is actually being accomplished with the budget provided.

So you can continue to take personal shots at me (note the lack of an apology for the unwashed cretin comment) if it really
makes you feel better, but in doing so you merely demonstrate a complete lack of class, decorum and more importantly objectivity
which I was expecting.

I hope for a less vitriolic response next time around....





Matthew.  

 

[muskrat89]

Now, if anyone has an intelligent and reasoned explanation as to why an officer at NDHQ charged with protecting our corporate image should in any way be connected to a discussion of procurement policies, please present it now.

For some of us, it is exasparating that the process to chastise a centrefold and publication for wearing an Army hat is far more decisive and efficient than that of properly equipping our Forces. You may argue that it is due to complexity, while we are arguing that it is due to culture.

I wasn't aware that pissing and moaning on an open forum would correct anything, if you see my point.

And what does you "pissing and moaning" about their "pissing and moaning" accomplish? Do you suppose that you will change our opinions with your condascension?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

For some of us, it is exasparating that the process to chastise a centrefold and publication for wearing an Army hat is far more decisive and efficient than that of properly equipping our Forces.

Tough.   I should hope it is easier to write to a newspaper about a photo than to decide on which helicopters to buy.   Wouldn't you be suspicious if it was the other way around?   They've done quite well by us as far as uniforms and small arms, that certainly didn't happen overnight.   I wish I could get paid every week instead of every two weeks.   I don't see that ranting and raving on the internet will change that.  

"God give me the strength to change the things I can, the courage to accept the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference..."

You may argue that it is due to complexity, while we are arguing that it is due to culture.

And you're an expert on the culture within NDHQ because......................what exactly.   You've worked there?   You're procured equipment for the Army?   My problem isn't that people have opinions on this, it is that they trot them out without provocation in the most unlikely of places.   "Oh my God, some staff johnny at NDHQ has time enough to complain about calendars, NO WONDER our Sea Kings are killing people left, right and centre!!!!!"

Please.

Most importantly, it's a public forum.  How do you want the Army viewed by those not in the know?  As a can-do force limited by their equipment but making do professionally, or a bunch of whiny babies who sit on the computer all day and cry to high heaven about how poorly they are led - despite really having no clue about why or how higher policies are decided or implemented.

Maybe we ought to stick to our own bailiwicks - I am sure you can post some more good info on how to set up a hoochie. 

 

[muskrat89]

Wouldn't you be suspicious if it was the other way around?

According to you, we're not qualified to form that opinion......

And you're an expert on the culture within NDHQ because......................what exactly.  You've worked there?  You're procured equipment for the Army?

But you're qualified to say that small arms and uniforms went well?  To quote the Great One - "Please..."

"Oh my God, some staff johnny at NDHQ has time enough to complain about calendars, NO WONDER our Sea Kings are killing people left, right and centre!!!!!"

My point tried to demonstrate (agree with you) that although, there is a literal disconnect, we see this as  the disease, as opposed to a symptom..

I see that you're not actually opposed to crying on the internet... it's the content that you have a problem with . Maybe when we're misguided it's crying.. when you're offering your opinion to us, though.. it's not 

Anyway, you asked how they were connected, and I tried to show how I thought the others were making a connection. You're not seeing our point, we're not seeing yours.. I'm "out" on this one