Burglar Beaten With His Own Bat. Victim Charged

[Haggis]

(the SQ is the local PS for Montreal West apparently).

The SPVM (Service de Police de la Ville de Montréal) are responsible for the entire island of Montréal, less provincial highways. I work with a few former SQ and SPVM members. Their English is quite good. A fair bit better than my French.

Heck, the OPP, and some other Ontario services have a program where home owners can register their security cameras with the police. That way, if a incident goes down in the neighbourhood, they know who has potential evidence.

Businesses, too.

 

[GR66]

Go behind the counters and you see cots, young kids playing or doing homework, older kids doing homework between customers. Most mom-and-pops, and even chain franchisees, make well less than minimum wage. The fact that this "store clerk" was so invested in the theft suggests to me that they were family.

100% this. Our favoured local Chinese food restaurant had their son start answering the phone to take orders at around age 6. His english was better than that of his older family members and his order taking much more accurate than the parade of part-timers that cycled through the position before he started.

 

[Jarnhamar]

One Canadian police officer said that. I feel pretty safe saying most of the rest of us think he’s a dumbass.

Sounds like a real weiner. As an LT though wouldn't be in a position of authority as far as policy and stuff goes?

 

[brihard]

Sounds like a real weiner. As an LT though wouldn't be in a position of authority as far as policy and stuff goes?

As near as I can tell an SQ Lieutenant is pretty akin to a Staff Sergeant in other services. They have five higher officer ranks. So I wouldn’t thinknheMs carry much real power or authority outside the unit he works in or leads. But I haven’t made any efforts to figure out exactly what his role is or why he’s in front of the camera.

 

[Haggis]

As near as I can tell an SQ Lieutenant is pretty akin to a Staff Sergeant in other services. They have five higher officer ranks. So I wouldn’t thinknheMs carry much real power or authority outside the unit he works in or leads. But I haven’t made any efforts to figure out exactly what his role is or why he’s in front of the camera.

He's a Media Relations Officer. The article jarnhamer shared identifies him as "SQ communications officer".

 

[Haggis]

This coming from a province that generally considers the Charter as suggestions.

Something like their traffic code.

A large chunk of their Civil Code is procedural, although it would cover matters under provincial jurisdiction.

One element of their Civil Code that I like is their "Good Samaritan Law' because I commute through QC daily as a shift worker and it can be pretty sketchy in winter.

 

[BrianWL]

I don't see how you can say "without provocation". The guy threatened the clerk with bodily harm. That seems like provocation to me and like Furniture said that will be the only consequences for the dirtbag since the 'justice system' in this country won't do anything.

Can't self defend yourself down the block because the system is broke. need the system to get unbroken. some day. not under the current regime.

 

[brihard]

Can't self defend yourself down the block because the system is broke. need the system to get unbroken. some day. not under the current regime.

Not allowing vigilante justice is not a symptom of a broken system. You can absolutely defend yourself from assault and from a reasonably perceived and imminent threat of same. You can also arrest someone who has assaulted you, and you can use reasonable force to do it. What you can’t do is chase a fleeing, disarmed criminal and tune him up with a baseball bat. At that point you yourself are now using a degree of force that could cause death or grievous bodily harm, and you’ve crossed beyond what our law tolerates. That limit is a good thing.

 

[BrianWL]

Can't self defend yourself down the block because the system is broke. need the system to get unbroken. some day. not under the current regime.

Not allowing vigilante justice is not a symptom of a broken system. You can absolutely defend yourself from assault and from a reasonably perceived and imminent threat of same. You can also arrest someone who has assaulted you, and you can use reasonable force to do it. What you can’t do is chase a fleeing, disarmed criminal and tune him up with a baseball bat. At that point you yourself are now using a degree of force that could cause death or grievous bodily harm, and you’ve crossed beyond what our law tolerates. That limit is a good thing

not quite what I meant to say. vigilantism is here and going to progress because the system is broken and people are sick of assholes walking around free after victimizing everyone around them. the system (ie - long custodial sentences) don't happen short of murder charges. they need to start punishing people again and maximizing lockup time so people who get victimized and society in general feel supported/protected....... or - they will beat on their abusers as this guy did. or take it further and seek out the bad guys and give them what they need, but usually don't get from the courts. IMO

 

[brihard]

Sorry, now I understand what you were saying. Thanks!

 

[BrianWL]

Sorry, now I understand what you were saying. Thanks!

no apology required .....its me who had the marbles in my mouth.....

 

[Jarnhamar]

The case of the store clerk going after the robber with a bat in this case seems wrong. It would be a stretch to successfully argue the clerk was worried about him coming back to harm him or something along those lines I'd say.

There's still a component of "good, he taught him a lesson". I don't think thinking that makes someone a bad person (or lost their humanity).

I'm a broken record but I want to bring up (now fired) Const. Alex Dunn from Calgary who slammed a tiny, hand-cuffed women, face first onto the concrete floor.
He was supposed to serve 30 days behind bars (albeit intermittently) followed by 6 months probation. He ended up with 15 days of house arrest and 15 days curfew. So a 'staycation'.

What penalty will this robber face if he's actually caught? It's not good when citizens take justice into their own hands, but this guy got a good lesson. More than he's going to get from the justice system.

 

[Haggis]

What penalty will this robber face if he's actually caught? It's not good when citizens take justice into their own hands, but this guy got a good lesson. More than he's going to get from the justice system.

He's in custody, probably still in hospital.

Given the soft on crime approach of the judiciary and government and the fact that he was also a crime victim, I expect he will not get much in the way of formal punishment.

As for lessons learned, the next time he does a robbery he will know to bring a gun.

 

[Good2Golf]

As for lessons learned, the next time he does a robbery he will know to bring a gun.

No, likely not. He’s not allowed to without a ATT.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

No, likely not. He’s not allowed to without a ATT.

Which he won’t get from the CFO.

See, problem solved.

 

[Jarnhamar]

As for lessons learned, the next time he does a robbery he will know to bring a gun.

That's true he might. You could also argue that by arresting him you're causing him financial distress which will make him more desperate and potentially violent.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Which he won’t get from the CFO.

See, problem solved.

See our firearms laws do work!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

See our firearms laws do work!

Exactly! Genius!

 

[Booter]

Is there a video that’s been released on this? My first instinct is that the bad guy made a comment after his beating about coming back or going to someone’s house. That’s my bias as I’ve seen it before- but it may not be the case. It just seems like maybe you guys have a lot more info than me- as there is a lot of legal stuff flying around on a three paragraph story? Time to do some googlin’

We don’t expect precision from every day people during self defence.

 

[Booter]

I wonder if he hit him after he was unconscious- honestly for them to hold him in custody etc there must be an aggravating factor that we’re missing.

You don’t get held in custody like in this case in absence of something else. Especially where it’s not a premeditated thing. There is a factor missing.