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CAF Specialist Pay [Spec Pay]- All Trades [MERGED]

I am afraid that I cannot offer anything more and am responding because I feel anyone who asks a question on this deserves some sort of response. I have been 'chewed out' by a certain SA CPO1 here recently for 'daring' to encourage someone to ask the question during a Fireside chat. The most recent 'promise'; come and gone was 1 Sep. I can only say that we (meaning the senior leadership of the trade) have asked for someone in a senior position in this process to make an announcement even if there is nothing to announce to no avail. I have heard ALL the rumours you have and all I can say is that they are RUMOUR. Though you may feel that you have heard more on Navy.ca than anywhere else, really, nothing has been revealed at all and I shamefully admit that the lack of information from the leadership of the Navy on this is unacceptable.
Once more please; If you do not hear it from the Occ Mgr (who is now settled in and is a good guy...even if he is an ETech!!), assume it to be a rumour ESPECIALLY if you read it here!
If I do get word of an outcome-I will NOT be posting it here but will be relaying it through Chiefs to Ships, School etc.

I wish there were more I could say...
...Pat
 
This goes out to any recruiters who have recently enrolled or had to answer questions for any potential Marine Engineers.
Do you still mention Spec 1 pay is received after QL5, and Spec 2 is after CERT 3 qualification?
The reason I ask is that since the pay freeze, sorry, the MOS review that stared almost three years ago there is no new Spec pay.
For instance a  LS completes QL5 and CERT 2 qual. They won't get spec pay until after this review is complete. Whenever that might be.
In the beginning of the review it was not an issue as it was thought the review would be complete before any recruits would be eligible for Spec pay. But now some that have joined shortly before the review started will soon be eligible for spec pay yet won't receive it, and when choosing the trade many choose it for the spec pay.
I know of only one senior Mar Eng that pushing for a resolution to this issue.
Just curious if the recruiters were aware they may be hiring using information that isn't entirely accurate?
Thanks.
 
I'll just throw this out there...  The recruiters that I spoke with filled my head with more misinformation than correct information.  And I concluded to myself that these people aren't posted to a recruiting center because they are good at what they do.  Sure, that's not going to be the rule for everyone.  But my experience with the recruiting center was horrible.

I would assume unless you are speaking with a stoker at a recruiting center, they have no idea about the freeze.
 
Misinformation indeed. CRCN made a statement about this already and indeed Spec Pay WILL return to status quo before the end of the fiscal year so if CFRG are saying it's there, they are not wrong.

I am a little disturbed about your comment re disinformation though. If you want to PM me and give me specifics (place, name, info), I PROMISE I will look into it.

Pat
 
I am a little disturbed about your comment re "Spec Pay WILL return to status quo before the end of the fiscal year.". 

My unit has not made us aware of this information...and most of the LS techs in my unit who should be receiving this entitlement are only growing more furious (than they were 2 years ago) at the navy and their lack of accountability towards this subject.  We had to get this answer from the ombudsman which in my opinion should be an embarrassment to the brass.

We junior ranks feel we have no support from the leadership in this Nay.

I can't comment on all the recruiting centers across the country.  But I will call a few random recruiting centers tomorrow and inquire.  My guess is that they will have no idea about this spec pay freeze and are advertising whatever 5 year old information they have available to them at their center.

I remember when I joined the military (early 2012) I could find on the internet that the Mar Eng trade was eligible for Spec 2.  This was 99% of the reason I joined this trade.  After a quick search today, I can't find anything on the subject of Specialist Pay rates for Mar Eng.

Looks like I'll be wearing blue soon... I have to say this outfit is the most unorganized I've worked for in my life.  The way this freeze has gone on...and the lack of information being passed around the troops is unforgivable.
 
LCIS, Sorry ACISS-CST has been pay frozen for almost 3 years now. Its not just the Navy that's failing its troops in this regard, WCS.
 
westcoastsailor said:
I am a little disturbed about your comment re "Spec Pay WILL return to status quo before the end of the fiscal year.". 

My unit has not made us aware of this information...and most of the LS techs in my unit who should be receiving this entitlement are only growing more furious (than they were 2 years ago) at the navy and their lack of accountability towards this subject.  We had to get this answer from the ombudsman which in my opinion should be an embarrassment to the brass.

We junior ranks feel we have no support from the leadership in this Nay.

I can't comment on all the recruiting centers across the country.  But I will call a few random recruiting centers tomorrow and inquire.  My guess is that they will have no idea about this spec pay freeze and are advertising whatever 5 year old information they have available to them at their center.

I remember when I joined the military (early 2012) I could find on the internet that the Mar Eng trade was eligible for Spec 2.  This was 99% of the reason I joined this trade.  After a quick search today, I can't find anything on the subject of Specialist Pay rates for Mar Eng.

Looks like I'll be wearing blue soon... I have to say this outfit is the most unorganized I've worked for in my life.  The way this freeze has gone on...and the lack of information being passed around the troops is unforgivable.
I don't know what to say other than I am sorry that you did not hear this information through your CoC as it was circulated (including to the west coast and Ottawa area stokers) within a week of being announced by CRCN. I can tell you that the RCN CPO was queried as recently as last week and there was no update. Please know that this is NOT the Navy's doing and CRCN as well as the CF CWO have been actively a part of this resolution process for quite some time; your leadership is NOT failing you though there is obviously a failure in this process. I can only hope and pray that the Pay review does not take this long following amalgamation with the ETechs.
If you would PM me some of your details, I will find out why you are not getting updated...promise.

Pat
 
Hello Pat,
were did you get that info, we saw the carreer manager ealier this and did'nt have any answer about our spec pay if your right, that would be the best news of the year.
let me know were I can find the info.

Best regard,
 
cfred0912 said:
Hello Pat,
were did you get that info, we saw the carreer manager ealier this and did'nt have any answer about our spec pay if your right, that would be the best news of the year.
let me know were I can find the info.

Best regard,
You wont 'find' it anywhere although I find it odd (again) that this was not passed on by the CMs. I will look into this when I get into work today. Keep in mind, this came from the Occ Mgr in an email in early October and I have been saying all along that he is the 'authority' on this.
 
CRCN announced in Esquimalt yesterday that Spec Pay for Mar Eng will return to pre 1 Feb 12 levels effective immediately. He went further to state that most should see it on their end Feb pay. For further info, I would ask that you wait for the info to come down through the chain which should be over the course of today. I do not have anything more but would ask that you NOT start nagging your Pay Offices.

Pat
 
First if you are viewing this thread to learn info, I can tell you two things. No you do not get fast-tracked to Cpl and No you don't get spec pay after training. Unfortunately, the recruiting centers seem to forget the Military ethos part about integrity when they are just blinding guaranteeing you these things that are completely false.

My question is what is the QL4/pre-QL5 training? How long does it take? Can you do it all at you first posting or do you have to go to other wings for training?

Is spec pay given right after QL4/pre-QL5 training?
 
This was posted today in another thread. Adding it here as an update,

Specialist Pay - For Regular Force NCM MOSIDs
Date modified: 2015-06-09
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page
 
Commander
Military Personnel Command
5555-1 (DPPD)
/ tl August 2016
Distribution List
National Defence
Headquarters
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A OK2
Commandant du
Commandement du personnel militaire
auartier general de
la Defense nationale
Ottawa (Ontario)
K1A OK2
REQUEST TO RESCIND PROVISIONAL PAY GROUP ASSIGNMENT
ARMY COMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION SYSTEMS SPECIALIST (ACISS)
References: A. QR&O 2.10
B. CDS Order dated 25 January 2012
C. 7200-1 (DRCCS) 16 February 2016
1. Your request under ref C where you sought my support to petition the CDS to
rescind his order in ref B that provisionally assigned the ACISS occupation to the
Standard pay group has been reviewed. Although a significant amount of time has
transpired since the decision was made, it is clear to me that there are compelling
circumstances that warranted a re-assessment of the situation.
2. The Canadian Armed Forces assigns NCM occupations and sub-occupations to
the Standard, Specialist 1 or Specialist 2 pay groups using the Canadian Forces Trade
Evaluation Plan (CFTEP). The CFTEP is a point factor job evaluation system that has
been used since 1973. On 4 December 2014, the CDS, in recognition of the
· requirement to modernize the CFTEP, directed the suspension of all current and future
evaluations pending implementation of a modernized methodology. On 23 February
2015, CMP issued an associated direction the product of which will be launched as the
Canadian Forces Job Evaluation System (CFJES) in early 2017.
3. Since 2011, following the approval of the respective Military Employment
Structure Implementation Plans (MESIP), newly created occupations and existing
occupations undergoing structural or qualification standard changes have been
assigned provisionally to the Standard pay group until a formal evaluation can be
conducted using the CFTEP methodology normally within twelve months. Where
applicable, pay protection pursuant to CBI 204.03 is accorded members who are at a
higher pay group when the lower provisional pay group is assigned. Pursuant to QR&O
2.10, the CDS approves all provisional and final pay group assignments. He exercises
this authority through a CDS Order that is effective on the date of signature. On 9
February 2014, my predecessor amended this approach by having the effective date of
each evaluation correspond to the date on which the CDS Order is signed. He further
directed that in cases where members of an occupation/sub-occupation have a current
1/3
I.I National Defense
Defence nationale Canada
pay group assignment that the pay group would be maintained until such time as the
results of the evaluation have been considered and approved by the CDS.
4. As you know, on 1 October 2011, a MESIP was approved that combined three
existing stand-alone legacy occupations into a newly developed ACISS occupation.
Members were formally transferred to the new occupation on that date. Only one of the
previous sub-occupations (LCIS Tech) was in the Specialist 1 pay group. At that time,
DPPD and DPGR assessed that the ACISS occupation was a new occupation and
accordingly recommended provisional assignment to the Standard pay group. The CDS
concurred and approved the assignment on 25 January 2012. Pay protection pursuant
to QR&O 2.1 O was accorded members as applicable.
5. DPPD was advised by the ACISS OA during the formal evaluation process that
the required documentation was incomplete and in addition that the ACISS structure
was not necessarily functional. As a result, the OA was provided with an additional 4-5
months to furnish additional and/or revised documentation. DPPD received the
documents in December 2014. As a result of the CDS direction on 4 December 2014 to
suspend current and future evaluations, any further action on the ACISS evaluation was
suspended pending implementation of the CF JES.
6. Your letter under ref Chas provided valuable insight as to the adverse effect the
provisional pay group assignment and the ongoing delay in finalizing the CFJES is
having on ACISS soldiers from the former LCIS Tech sub-occupation. As I have stated,
at the time of the assignment of the provisional pay group, the ACISS occupation was
deemed a new occupation which pursuant to procedure required that the occupation be
provisionally assigned to the Standard pay group. DPPD has had an opportunity to
revisit the 2012 decision. He has concluded that the ACISS occupation should not have
been identified as a "new" occupation in the context of provisional pay group
assignment; and, as a direct consequence, pay group assignments should have been
maintained. He further assesses that the unavoidable delay in completing the
modernization of the evaluation methodology is a complicating factor. It is reasonable,
therefore, to conclude that the ACISS provisional assignment to the Standard pay group
should not have been recommended. Accordingly, QLSA qualified members of the
LCIS Tech sub-occupation should have retained their Specialist 1 pay group pending
CDS approval of a formal evaluation. On receipt of this letter, DPPD will initiate steps to
rescind the 2012 CDS Order which, if approved, will re-instate QLSA qualified members
of the previous LCIS Tech to the Specialist 1 pay group.
~#,, ..
/'..c:r" C.T. Whitecross
Lieutenant-General
213
Distribution List
Action
Comd CA
DGCB
Info
DLPM
DRCCS
DPPD
2/3

Director General Compensation and Benefits
National Defence Headquarter
MGen George R. Pearkes Bldg
101 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa ON KIA OK2

5555-00100 (DPPD 4)

November 2016

LGen P.F. Wynnyk
Commander Canadian Army

ALLOCATION OF MILITARY OCCUPATION TO TRADE GROUP – ACISS

Reference: A 7200-1 (DRCCS) 16 February 2016
B. CDS Order 050/16 (Notal)
C. 5555-00362 (DPPD 4) 5 November 2016

1. In answer to your request, reference A, at reference B, a new CDS Order was issued allowing the ACISS sub-occupation, LCIS, previous Trade Group Allocation to be rescinded, allocating the LCIS sub-occupation back to its original Spec 1 Pay allocation.

2. In reference C, DMPAP was task to initiate a pay system adjustment for former and present LCIS personnel to reflect the CDS Order.  The pay adjustments are projected to be complete by the last pay period of January 2017.

3. Once the new pay evaluation guide is approved for use, a formal pay evaluation will conducted upon the entire occupation.

4. For further information or question, please contact Maj Jean Godin, DPPD 4, at 613-996-8360.





Mary-Catherine Johnson
Acting-Director Pay Policy and Development

 
For reference,

ACISS Occupation - Spec Pay (former LCIS Techs)
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/124963/post-1471696/topicseen.html#new
 
Hello,

I was just wondering what exactly is a Trade Group Specialist 1 and 2 ? and how you become a Specialist - I see these options in the pay scale starting at Corporal , I am assuming you become a Specialist after completing courses? or am I totally wrong

Thank you
 
LND Infantry said:
Hello,

I was just wondering what exactly is a Trade Group Specialist 1 and 2 ? and how you become a Specialist - I see these options in the pay scale starting at Corporal , I am assuming you become a Specialist after completing courses? or am I totally wrong

Thank you

Some trades qualify for Specialist pay, there are two levels of Spec Pay(some trades are level 1, others are level 2). Infantry does not get Spec Pay.

These are the trades that get Spec Pay
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page
 
LightFighter said:
Some trades qualify for Specialist pay, there are two levels of Spec Pay(pay dependant). Infantry does not get Spec Pay.

These are the trades that get Spec Pay
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page

Thank you for your reply
 
Any one who OT'd into a spec trade after 2004 should probably speak to their orderly room. IAW the CBI, all time served plus the time spent in the jnr. Sub OCC was supposed to be counter to calculation of IPC I  the specialist pay category. They have been only using the time in the jnr sub OCC to calculate it. A number of grievances have resulted in D Mil Pay going back to correct the error. We received an email about it on Monday. There are like 1400 pers across the forces affected, so if you may be one of them make sure you are on the list.

Edit: I will try to post the message when I get into work tonight.
 
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