Canada buys Husky, Buffalo & Cougar for Afghanistan (Where's the Meerkat?)

[Allen]

There has been no news about this, only this press release from the manufacturer:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070501005928&newsLang=en

 

[McG]

It could be that it is a small purchase to fill a specialist role.  There was no big media fan fare when the CF bought the first 3 Nyala for Engr Recce either.

It is worth noting that the Buffalo is an EOD/MCM vehicle: http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/35310.0.html

If we are lucky, there is another contract to get Meerkats (or something like them) to work with the Buffalo.

 

[Electrical Eng.]

I can understand the military having interest in the Buffaloes for the obvious reason of mine, unexploded ordinance, IED and suspicious object removal from safe distances but the purchase of Cougars are very unusual.  The RG-31 Nyala and the Cougar, though different in mechanical structure and power plant, are designed for essentially the same sorts of missions.  If the reason for the purchase is to buy a variant that is an urgent operational necessity for the ongoing operations, then why not just purchase and modify a Nyala / RG-31?  I am beginning to think that the CF command is looking at the Nyala with a critical eye and wondering aloud if there is a better vehicle available.

Though not fully aware of all the ongoing issues with the Nyala, there seems to be two reoccurring themes that I read about in the various threads and articles.  Underpowered powertrains and excessive maintenance.  If the reason that the Cougar is being looked at as an alternative to the Nyala is the underpower issue, then I feel that this is not a valid argument.  The cougar has an off the shelf more powerful engine / transmission combination than the Nyalas that are currently in service with the CF but, an upgraded diesel engine (123 HP to 275HP) is now offered standard by GDLS for the Nyala.  Retrofitting or upgrading the whole fleet of vehicles can be accomplished in theater or at home home very easily with essentially off the shelf parts.

We also know that the terrain in Afghanistan is probably the worst on the planet for wear and tear on a vehicle.  The maintenance required for the vehicles drive systems, suspension, brakes and other mechanical systems is to be expected in my opinion.  I wonder if other similar vehicles would also have a maintenance record not much different then our Nyalas.  Ongoing and excessive maintenance on electrical, diagnostic and self-defence systems are a different story.  If this is a concern than I can understand looking elsewhere for an alternative.

To say the least, I am a surprised and little bit perplexed by this purchase.  This government has been very enthusiastic about broadcasting to the general public about recent purchases and upgrades and has been silent on this purchase up to now.  They have put their money where their mouth is and should be congratulated (and reelected) for this (in my opinion).  I just wish that some official clarification or justification was available to review.

 

[Jammer]

Speaking as some on who was part of the EOD/IEDD team...these vehs will not enhance our capability, in fact our teams resoundly opposed the idea of these vehs when approached by the TAV from CFEOD last year.
The Bisons we used were far better in terms of work space and overall functionality. Not happy at all about this...

 

[McG]

You are assuming that the Cougar has been bought to be an EOD tm vehicle.  The Buffalo is a IED recce vehicle & the team rides somewhere else.

 

[KevinB]

FWIW the US Mil is using the Nyala and has also bought the Cougar and Buffalo as well...

You see them daily in Iraq.

 

[Jammer]

I assume nothing.
I'm well aware of what the vehs are used for, you see I was on the CDN EOD/IEDD team.
Even the USAF/Army EOD teams didn't like them. We worked with them many times during Ops Medusa, and B'azz Tzuka
The Buffalo and Cougars are used as pairs in their teams, along with the Meerkat.
The Buffalo DOES carry the IED exploitation team.

 

[McG]

I assume nothing.

You have assuemed much.  You have assumed that Canada will use all the vehicles in all the same roles that the US does.  (As an aside, the US also uses the Cougar as the troop carrier that we thought we could get from the Nyala)

You have assumed that the Cougar will replace the Bison as the EOD Tm vehicle.  It might, but you don't know that (and neither do I).

You have also assumed that I am not aware how the RCP works.  In the US exploitation world (which we have copied) the exploitation guys were not the EOD Tm.  An RCP worked with an EOD/IEDD capability in a second vehicle.

 

[Garett]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070506/armoured_vehicles_070506/20070506?hub=Canada

http://www.forceprotection.net/about/vehicles.html

Canada buys 10 more armoured vehicles from U.S.

Updated Sun. May. 6 2007 4:19 PM ET

Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- The Defence Department has quietly signed a deal with a U.S. defence contractor to acquire 10 heavily armoured patrol vehicles.

The US $8.8 million deal was announced by Force Protection, Inc., (NASDAQ:FRPT) of Charleston, S.C., on its website late last week.

The company will manufacture 10 Buffalo and Cougar mine-protected vehicles -- five each -- for the Canadian expeditionary force command.

The trucks, which have a V-shaped hull meant to deflect the blasts of roadside bombs, are expected to be delivered in August and are destined for duty in Afghanistan.

"This initial, urgent order will go . . . for immediate deployment,'' Damon Walsh, a vice-president at Force Protection, said in a statement.

"Based on past performance, we know it will save Canadian lives.''

Defence has not commented on the purchase, nor explained why the vehicles are necessary after last year's acquisition of 75 RG-31 Nyalas from a South African subsidiary of British-owned BAE Systems Inc.

The Nyala, although loved by the troops for the protection that it affords from improvised explosives, went through a series of teething pains.

The vehicle, which has seen service all over the world, was specially modified for Canada's needs in Afghanistan. Rather being fielded tested to work out the bugs, the Nyalas went straight from the South African assembly line on to the explosive-strewn streets of Kandahar.

Last summer, at the height of fierce fighting with the Taliban, more than a quarter of the fleet was in the shop with maintenance problems, army records show.

Most of the problems were either electrical or software glitches, many relating to the roof-mounted, remote-controlled machine gun.

The alternators in the Nyalas could not handle the combined load of the remote-controlled machine gun and newly installed Canadian radios and jammers. The electrical system had to be beefed up to handle 280 amps.

It's unclear if those problems convinced the department to shop elsewhere -- or whether the new vehicles will have a defined role with specific types of troops.

For example, since 2003, American forces have assigned Cougars and Buffaloes to engineering and explosive-disposal teams.

Unlike, the Nyala, the new trucks have no windows and are capable of carrying more troops and equipment.

 

[Cdnronin]

I checked the "Force Protection Inc" website and these vehicles were also designed for these addition roles:

Cougar - Mine Clearance, Asset Protection, or C&C.
Buffalo - Convoy C&C, Communications, EOD Teams or Field Ambulance.

 

[TheHead]

The Nyala, although loved by the troops for the protection that it affords from improvised explosives,


I love that phrase. That's the only thing it was loved for.  The Nyala was garbage on an Operational sense and should be give to rear echelon elements for force protection. 

I was a Nyala gunner on Op Archer Roto 1 and the only thing that Vehicle was good for was #1 Breaking Down.  #2 Road moves on pavement.  I spent most of my time during night moves not scanning my arcs but telling my driver where to go since he couldn't see anything.  I commend the Military for the thought, since it was a hasty decision to save troops lives, but once again no tactical thought was put into this decision.  Unless things have been retrofitted (Like a STAB for the weapon, and many other key functions that were missing,broken or just left out  : )  than I hope those things are never used in a forward unit on combat operations.

 

[tomahawk6]

The US has deployed the Interim Vehicle-Mounted Mine Detector consisting of the Meerkat,Husky, a trailer and a vehicle containing spare parts.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/june2003/a060203a.html

 

[3rd Herd]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2007-08-01-force-protection-mraps_N.htm
The Usual Disclaimer

As explosives in Iraq get deadlier, makers of armored vehicles alter plans
By Peter Eisler, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — On a sunny October morning in 2004, a 13-ton, desert-tan military truck rumbled by the police barriers that guard Capitol Hill and pulled up between two buildings where lawmakers have their offices.
The heavily armored Cougar, sitting nearly 4 feet off the ground atop a V-shaped hull, was a novelty even to Washington's most seasoned military experts. But officials with Force Protection Inc., the truck's fledgling manufacturer, held it up as an answer to a familiar problem. This vehicle, they said, could protect against the improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, that had become the top killer of U.S. troops in Iraq..................

Interesting video of direct under belly IED test in Aberdeen shot in the spring of 2007 on the same citing link.

Edit to add:

See also: Cougar Armored Trucks to Stalk Mines on the Battlefield-14-Aug-2007 16:46
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/cougar-armored-trucks-to-stalk-mines-on-the-battlefield-updated-0532/

 

[Nfld Sapper]

CBC ARTICLE LINK

New military vehicles to combat roadside bombs
Last Updated: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 | 6:21 AM ET
CBC News
The Canadian military is buying 16 specialized vehicles designed to detect, dig up and neutralize the roadside bombs that have plagued troops in Afghanistan.

Deliveries of the six Husky, five Buffalo and five Cougar vehicles are scheduled to begin in October, the Canadian Press reported.

The vehicles, to be purchased from the U.S. military, will cost nearly $30 million dollars.

The Husky vehicles can detect mines buried under or at the side of roads, while the five Buffalo vehicles will dig them up using extended arms and cameras.

The five Cougar vehicles will be capable of neutralizing bombs.

Of the 69 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, about half were killed by roadside bombs.

 

[R.O.S]

Oh, I have a good editorial article of this from the national post by Lorne Gunter.... well good for the internet that I don't have to scan the clip out. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=42330da9-038e-42c4-9d6f-bf96bc48efe8 . THe article raises questions about the equipment the CF needs, and a shocking statement that Canadians are being killed at a rate 3 times of there american and british counterparts.

 

[geo]

Was wandering past the workshops today.  After having walked past several batteries worth of M109s, lo and behold, a bunch of the new COUGAR MPVs in their desert tan coulour.... wow - big boys!
They had the yellow "student driver" signs on them - not sure if they were testing em out prior to shipping em out or simply training the 1st batch of drivers.

NICE

 

[GAP]

Canadian troops in Afghanistan have new weapon in war against deadly IEDs
Article Link

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Canadian troops in Afghanistan have a new weapon against deadly roadside bombs.

Military officials unveiled the first of their new RSD Husky armoured vehicles Wednesday.

The South African-built Huskies are equipped with sophisticated metal and electronic detectors that scan roads and ditches for improvised explosive devices, roadside bombs and landmines.

Roadside bombs have become the deadliest threat facing international troops in Afghanistan.

Twenty-nine of the 71 Canadian soldiers who have died were killed by roadside bombs, 22 of them in the past year. Another 11 Canadian soldiers have died in suicide bombing attacks.

Capt. David Holsworth, of the 5th Combat Engineers Regiment based in Valcartier, Que., said that Canadian troops used to rely on their American counterparts to clear roads with this type of equipment.

However, U.S. Huskies are largely tied up clearing roads for American convoys.

"A lot of the (soldiers who were killed by IEDs) could have been saved if we had had these earlier," Holsworth told reporters at Kandahar Airfield. "It's extremely important."

The Huskies look like road graders, minus the blade and with armour plate. The vehicle is built to resist the blast from underneath, with the driver seated high away from the bomb beneath.

"The section is really eager to get out there because they'll be saving their buddies," Holsworth said.

Military officials say the Huskies won't totally eliminate the risk of roadside bombs, but are a vast improvement over any equipment Canadians currently have.

Canada is buying 16 vehicles at a cost of $29.6 million, including six Huskies. Two of the Huskies will remain in Canada for training purposes, while the rest will be deployed in Afghanistan.
More on link

 

[GAP]

Husky to work with Cougar, Buffalo to clear mines in Afghanistan
Article Link
KANDAHAR -- The deadliest war within the war in Afghanistan entered a new era Wednesday as Canadian combat engineers tried out for the first time some high-tech devices designed to stop Taliban improvised explosive devices from killing Canadians.

A South African-made Husky mine detection vehicle, which looks like an awkward road grader with several wheeled extensions trailing behind to detonate buried explosives, was put through its paces on a dusty field near the Kandahar airfield.

"The guys who are going to use it are really eager to get out there because they know that with this they will save the lives of their buddies," said Capt. David Holsworth of Kingston, Ont., an engineer with the 5th Combat Engineers Regiment of Valcartier, Que. "This is the best piece of kit there is."

Life-saving innovations are urgently needed. Of the 71 Canadian soldiers who have died in Afghanistan so far, 30 were killed when their vehicles hit home-made bombs buried in or near roads.

The Husky, which has four wheels set far apart with the driver riding high in the middle on an armoured, V-shaped hull, is designed to work in concert with two other huge vehicles. One, called the Buffalo, will be equipped with a long robot arm to defuse, disable or detonate whatever is found hidden in the ground. The second, known as a Cougar, will carry explosives experts, robots and electronic suppression devices

Read more on the Husky mine-detection vehicle here.

End of article

 

[GAP]

Explosion damages Canadian demining vehicle in Afghanistan, driver OK
Article Link

MASUM GHAR, Afghanistan - One of Canada's newest weapons against roadside bombs in Afghanistan became the victim of an improvised explosive device on Tuesday.

The Husky mine-detection vehicle was damaged by an explosion; the driver escaped unhurt. Roadside explosives have taken a terrible toll on Canadian soldiers, so it was with pride that the military recently unveiled the Husky, a vehicle built in South Africa that resembles a road grader.

In essence, the vehicle acts like a birddog using a combination of technology including X-ray and metal detection. If it spots anything suspicious, it drops a puddle of ink so the spot can be further investigated.

Its design, with a high one-man cockpit set back on the chassis and huge wheels in the front, provides maximum protection for the driver.

A pair of Huskies were making their way along Route Foster - a narrow, winding highway that runs west of Forward Operating Base Masum Ghar in Kandahar province. The area is a daily battle ground between Canadian forces trying to keep it free from mines, and Taliban insurgents who have free reign in many parts of the area.

After a number of false alarms in the first kilometre of what was supposed to be a 10-kilometre journey, Sgt. Jean-Francois De Wolfe sighed: "It's going to be a very long day."

Danger is everywhere on this stretch of road.
More on link

 

[forcerecon85]

Glad to know the driver was okay. Glad we have these.

"The explosion was really strong," added De Wolfe, who noted the damaged vehicle had just moved in front of his RG-31 armoured vehicle.
"That one [Husky] is repairable; this one would have been cut in two."

Better to lose the front end of a Husky which is easily replaced then half a RG-31 and maybe those inside.