Canadian Combat Action Badge - Now A Dead Idea (Merged Threads)

[the 48th regulator]

I hope we can get this idea fired up again.

In fact I propose that people start wearing medals on their CADPAT uniforms, when in garrison.  Then get a field version, kinda going along the lines of the name tag.  Where you get a velcro backed styled row of medal bars, to be attached tot he Combats out in the field or when operational.  This would also have to be a set that maintains the colour coding of the actual medal.  Any dumbing down, or subduing the colours would defeat the purpose.

Maybe even a special badge on their headdress, or even a special hat to identifying those that have seen combat.  No sense in wearing a tootie little badge, I say go for the whole hog and really show your sense of pride.  Maybe a pirate type hat.  They were worn by some mean dudes who saw some wicked shit...

That would really get them whiners, I'll say...


dileas

tess

 

[X-mo-1979]

Do anyone have anything officially written that it has been canceled?As I said I was instructed to stop writing the reports for it,but never got clarification.

 

[rampage800]

X-Mo

Yea I believe it actually came out in a CANFORGEN was either last week or the week prior.It was obviously on the chopping block awhile ago but has since become official.(that the whole thing is scrubbed)

 

[X-mo-1979]

X-Mo

Yea I believe it actually came out in a CANFORGEN was either last week or the week prior.It was obviously on the chopping block awhile ago but has since become official.(that the whole thing is scrubbed)

Ok thanks.I'll see if I can find it when I get back to work.

 

[Michael OLeary]

It is too bad that there is a small number of CF members who feel their uniform bling should outline everything they did in their careers.  Most disappointingly is the fact that the apparent motivation for a very small number seems to be less about pride of accomplishment, than it is about setting themselves above those who lack the same trinkets.

I have little doubt that those who take that view are a very small minority.  Most likely, a much larger groups heard about the combat badges (in whatever form), and thought: “OK, that's cool”, but also weren't sorely disappointed when the initiative evaporated.  We are left, however, with the few loud voices who wish us to believe they have now been personally insulted and aggrieved by this badge not coming into use.

Is this a result of this generation of entitlement we are discussing in another thread (which, admittedly, focuses on students)?

Is it another example of some wanting to “Americanize” our uniform accoutrements?  That reflects back on the long and circular arguments over wound stripe vs sacrifice medal, does it not?

And what will it mean in the long term?

How may of us go into a Mess, Legion or other gathering place on Remembrance Day and see veterans there wearing their stars from the Second World War or their UN and war medals from Korea?  And if you do, when was the last time you grilled one of those men on the nature, location, dates and activities of his service – not out of honest curiosity – but to see if he was worthy of your attention as a warrior and not just someone who stayed “inside the wire.”

It is easy to make too much of the bling: medals, ribbons, devices and clasps.  But none of them truly mean a thing when to comes to understanding the character of the man or woman – and their commitment to service as a soldier, sailor or airman.

Claiming insult at not getting a combat badge (or any other bit of bling), the effect of which is solely to set oneself apart from those without, is mean and insulting.  It presumes that every service member chose where they served and it denigrates those who serve honourably without the opportunity to collect such devices.

Thousands have served wherever the military has sent them, and many haven't seen combat because the timing and postings of their careers precluded such service. Their careers are not measured by the length of their medal rack, but by the quality of their service – and often they are the only ones who know how good that was.  Do any of us, now or in future, really need a complete chest mounted resume?  If your answer to that is “yes”, then perhaps it is your own motivation to serve that requires closer self-examination.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Michael, incredible post.

How may of us go into a Mess, Legion or other gathering place on Remembrance Day and see veterans there wearing their stars from the Second World War or their UN and war medals from Korea?  And if you do, when was the last time you grilled one of those men on the nature, location, dates and activities of his service – not out of honest curiosity – but to see if he was worthy of your attention as a warrior and not just someone who stayed “inside the wire.”

How true is that.
I can't count how many times I've heard the argument of being inside the wire or outside the wire. Followed by travelling outside the wire or living outside the wire at a fob. Then staying inside the fob (relatively) or not.

It feels like we were 'starved for action' (for lack of a better term) for so long that EVERYTHING now is a big ol pissing contest.

 

[Infanteer]

Someone else said it well - the capbadge should say enough.  The "Combat Badge Olympics" with gold medals was friggen silly - I've already heard stories of guys of relatively high rank deliberately hunting for gold badges.  And, Tess wasn't off the mark with the wearing of the badge on the Combats; I heard it from the old CDS.  No thanks.

We are on ROTO 7 now - combat isn't some strange phenomenon for this Army, unlike back in the day when we regarded the odd Medak or Cypress guy who fired a shot in anger as something quite unique.

My :2c:

 

[the 48th regulator]

Someone else said it well - the capbadge should say enough.  The "Combat Badge Olympics" with gold medals was friggen silly - I've already heard stories of guys of relatively high rank deliberately hunting for gold badges.  And, Tess wasn't off the mark with the wearing of the badge on the Combats; I heard it from the old CDS.  No thanks.

We are on ROTO 7 now - combat isn't some strange phenomenon for this Army, unlike back in the day when we regarded the odd Medak or Cypress guy who fired a shot in anger as something quite unique.

My :2c:

Did he mention anything akin to my Pirate Hat Idea?

dileas

tess

 

[X-mo-1979]

Someone else said it well - the capbadge should say enough.  We are on ROTO 7 now - combat isn't some strange phenomenon for this Army, unlike back in the day when we regarded the odd Medak or Cypress guy who fired a shot in anger as something quite unique.
My :2c:

How may of us go into a Mess, Legion or other gathering place on Remembrance Day and see veterans there wearing their stars from the Second World War or their UN and war medals from Korea?  And if you do, when was the last time you grilled one of those men on the nature, location, dates and activities of his service – not out of honest curiosity – but to see if he was worthy of your attention as a warrior and not just someone who stayed “inside the wire.”

Cheers.
My capbadge is enough.And that's what I told my guys.

I know we had a MAT tech who if he wasn't there doing a fantastic job we wouldn't have rolled at all.He was as much part of our killing as the next guy.

But then again Napoleon recognized the importance for recognition.

The only recognition I really need is the figures getting larger in my bank account.That's the main reason I deploy.Plus I enjoy life out there.

However Mike one question to ponder.Just to play devils advocate (as the weather sucks and I wish I was camping!)
With your statement above how many of those older veterans look at the medals ask what unit they were with and make their judgments from their experience? Ever read the book Beyond Valour?Every journal entry is complaining about "yellow" rear esh pers etc etc.Has the army ever really changed?I don't think so.

 

[dapaterson]

Hmm.. if this absurd Hillier-ism is being put to rest, does this mean we can abolish the dot COMs next?

 

[Michael OLeary]

With your statement above how many of those older veterans look at the medals ask what unit they were with and make their judgments from their experience? Ever read the book Beyond Valour?Every journal entry is complaining about "yellow" rear esh pers etc etc.Has the army ever really changed?I don't think so.

The Army has changed greatly.  Human nature, however, remains a constant factor, for good or ill.  The fact that such comments have always been around does not give any of us grace to sink to the same level.  To do so is a personal choice to devalue the contributions of others.

 

[X-mo-1979]

The Army has changed greatly.  Human nature, however, remains a constant factor, for good or ill.  The fact that such comments have always been around does not give any of us grace to sink to the same level.  To do so is a personal choice to devalue the contributions of others.

Agreed.
Whats your opinions of Per's wearing jump wings on CF's?Isnt that sort of a mundane bragging right much like the combat badge?Crossed rifles etc?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Shall we debate every specialist badge?  What, exactly, are you looking for?  "Playing devil's advocate" is a wonderful game, but what is your point?  If you agree with statements made, say so outright, if you disagree, make your point in debate rather than empty challenge.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Shall we debate every specialist badge?  What, exactly, are you looking for?  "Playing devil's advocate" is a wonderful game, but what is your point?  If you agree with statements made, say so outright, if you disagree, make your point in debate rather than empty challenge.

Well you seem to be dead against the combat action badge because it sets people apart.However how do you feel about jump wings red/white crossed rifles etc?As do these not separate soldiers as well?

I believe you said:
It is too bad that there is a small number of CF members who feel their uniform bling should outline everything they did in their careers.  Most disappointingly is the fact that the apparent motivation for a very small number seems to be less about pride of accomplishment, than it is about setting themselves above those who lack the same trinkets.

Don't any specialist badges do the same?

I personally don't want the badge.But I am interested in your argument.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Personally, I have nothing against jump wings.

Nor do I have anything against a combat action badge.

My comments were directed at the attitudes of some which were expressed over why they should have it, or why they now take offence that they aren't getting it.  That has nothing to do with the item itself, or its purpose.

I remember enough occasions where people complained over whether they thought someone was deserving of a white leaf on their wings, rather than a red one - the same divisive attitude that had nothing to do with the skill of jumping out of aircraft.

Those attitudes have nothing to do with pride of accomplishment.  The attitudes, not the item, are the divisive and disruptive element.

 

[Grunt_031]

I guess this idea has politically died on the table.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmoral/articles/20090518.aspx

 

[armyvern]

I guess this idea has politically died on the table.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmoral/articles/20090518.aspx

:

Yes, all that from a non-Canadian website ...

Who calls us "The Canadian Defense Department" instead of, properly, the Department of National Defence. They, in fact, are so in-tune with our members wishes that they too comment upon "all the troops who've earned it - wanting it" - ignoring the fact that this very site shows that not to be the case; they too then bleat on about "not informing the troops" when there's comments in this very thread about the fact that it was "dead" being passed in O Gps last fall.

Hell, we even have a member who has posted in this thread about being told last fall in-theatre Afghanistan to discontinue his write-ups on his pers because it (the  CAB) was a dead issue.

Yep, wholey factual. Wonder where their "facts" are coming from? And the Globe and Mails claims to have 'broken' this "secret decision" which no-one knew about.  ...  : Nice spin on the politcal front.

 

[Michael OLeary]

If there's enough public outcry over this, the CAB may be revived and issued.

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And so nice of them to try and rally the public too.  An online wargaming site trying to direct Canadian military and political decision-making.    :

 

[Journeyman]

Hmm.. if this absurd Hillier-ism is being put to rest, does this mean we can abolish the dot COMs next?

Oh stop.
Next you'll want to take back all that back-pay from that recently-promoted...and immediately retired, BGen

 

[Journeyman]

CANFORGEN 15 May 2009

COMBAT ACTION BADGE
UNCLASSIFIED
1.    FOLLOWING CONSULTATION WITH SAILORS, SOLDIERS, AIRMEN AND AIRWOMEN, ARMED FORCES COUNCIL HAS DECIDED NOT TO PROCEED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF A COMBAT ACTION BADGE
2.    SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS TO RECOGNIZE MILITARY PERSONNEL FOR THEIR DEVOTION TO DUTY, COURAGE AND LEADERSHIP IN THE MILITARY PROFESSION. ACCORDINGLY IT HAS BEEN DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INSIGNIA SIGNIFYING COMBAT INVOLVEMENT

SIGNED BY W. NATYNCZYK, CDS

(Mind you, I had to cut & paste this from David ********'s site*).

But since I'd also heard about its cancellation from my chain of command back in the fall, I can probably avoid seeing several posters in the line-up for trauma counselling 



* Mr ********: interesting blog.
  You may want to back off on using "I" and "me" so often -- you're sounding more and more like Scott Taylor.  :