Canadian modular assault rifle project, a C7 replacement?

[quadrapiper]

The L4 version was in service until the mid-90s, I believe. A nice bit of kit, but a bugger to carry with the 'butt in the shoulder'

Only slightly more overgrown looking than the SLR/FN.

Did a quick google: same length, more or less, but more than twice the weight.

 

[Rifleman62]

Nah the glow stick I attached to the Platoon Commander’s helmet draws all the fire

Only when he had a map.

Carried the original BREN my first year in the Army. Was a year under age and the smallest stature in the Section.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Only slightly more overgrown looking than the SLR/FN.

Did a quick google: same length, more or less, but more than twice the weight.

22lbs, unloaded. And Gawd help you if you tried to use the sling

 

[KevinB]

22lbs, unloaded. And Gawd help you if you tried to use the sling

See one area the CAF didn't scrimp -they bought C2's instead of rechambering the Bren's from .303 Brit.

 

[ueo]

It sounds like the Army doesn't realize shooting is as much about the shooter as it is the rifle.

This sounds to me like it has some strange undercurrent of having to buy less bullets.

Usta spend days and rds on the range under the tutelage of our best shooters. Nothing fancy just practice basic lessons. Some deviations into flavor of the day "Quick kill" comes to mind. worked well on CQR but difficult to master without massive expenditure of time and ammo. Given dearth of bullets and the trg reqts for touchie feelie stuff, we are truly F###ed!

 

[KevinB]

Usta spend days and rds on the range under the tutelage of our best shooters. Nothing fancy just practice basic lessons. Some deviations into flavor of the day "Quick kill" comes to mind. worked well on CQR but difficult to master without massive expenditure of time and ammo. Given dearth of bullets and the trg reqts for touchie feelie stuff, we are truly F###ed!

There are a lot of good simulations, VR systems, and motion capture/video overlay technologies that can be used to train personnel without a vast amount of live firing.

I agree there is no true substitute for live fire - but most Grand Master level competitors do a 10:1 (or more) ratio of Dry Fire compared to live.

With the motion capture and video overlay systems, you can analyze and refine techniques that can shave time off pretty much everything - reloads, getting into positions, stoppages, and well when combined with target analysis you can see exactly why some shots went where they did .

Yes those systems are all relatively expensive, but when used properly you aren't needing 100k rounds a year to keep a shooter at tier 1 levels of performance, now 15-20k will do, and that is a significant savings on ammunition, weapons, and maintenance.
I have zero idea on how many rounds a non SOF member shoots these days, but I would guess that you would see a better than 5:1 ratio in performance increase, as I've seen what can be done with some supporters who really aren't shooters.

 

[Fabius]

From everyone's favourite Canadian milsubstacker, Noah Gairn (and probably our only one).

To the two people who ask me about CMAR, I can happily report that recent tests puts the effective range off the Full-Spctrum (14.5”) variant out to 500m. I thought you would like to know.

Initial price tag estimates to equip both the Regular and Reserves, along with new optics, is currently sitting at around $700 million, give or take. I would expect to see it fully funded.

My personal question about CMAR is what the grenadier situation will be, I doubt M203 will fit, maybe the new Colt Canada EAGLE sideloading GL?

Based on a couple factors, main one being a desire to keep the entire program inside Canada and not need to involve OUTCAN firms like was tried with the Ranger rifle and the C6, I strongly suspect the grenade launcher will be the Colt Canada Eagle.
It won’t be a standalone but attached to the bottom rail on the forend. Supposed to be fielded at ratio of 1 GL per 5 CMAR FS.

 

[KevinB]

FFS. Snatching Defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Fabius]

Well that is standard.

Not CMAR related but interesting. 1 RCR conducted a counter drone range using REM 870P cylinder bore shotguns with 00 buck.

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[markppcli]

Well that is standard.

Not CMAR related but interesting. 1 RCR conducted a counter drone range using REM 870P cylinder bore shotguns with 00 buck.

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One upside of the FOV threat has been making it easy to justify skeet shooting as training.

Eagle looks like a monstrosity but I suspect the upgrade means like for like replacements are required.

 

[Fabius]

Skeet shooting or similar engagement of aerial targets is normally done with ammunition designed for engagement of aerial targets vs buck shot though.
It would be interesting to see how many clays or UAS would be hit in the air by buckshot.
I guess they are just making do with what they can get.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Skeet shooting or similar engagement of aerial targets is normally done with ammunition designed for engagement of aerial targets vs buck shot though.
It would be interesting to see how many clays or UAS would be hit in the air by buckshot.
I guess they are just making do with what they can get.

Depends on the type of buckshot: IIRC 00 has about six large pellets compared to Number 4 which has 12, smaller pellets. More pellets better chance of hitting the target.

 

[Fabius]

CAF 12 gauge 2 3/4 buckshot is usually always 00 buck with 8-9 pellets. #4 buck can go as high as 21 pellets but BB 3inch loads are typically between 50-72 pellets.
Hence why aerial targets aren’t typically engaged with Buckshot, pattern density is much much better with pellet loads vs buckshot loads.

 

[KevinB]

CAF 12 gauge 2 3/4 buckshot is usually always 00 buck with 8-9 pellets. #4 buck can go as high as 21 pellets but BB 3inch loads are typically between 50-72 pellets.
Hence why aerial targets aren’t typically engaged with Buckshot, pattern density is much much better with pellet loads vs buckshot loads.

Real Men shoot Skeet with 00 Buck and a 14" barrel cylinder bore Entry Gun
It is humbling like a MoFO though. I can usually get 19-20 with a 22" Benelli M2, and run about 7-8 with the Entry Gun.
Admittedly I know a guy who shoots skeet using 5.56mm SRTA with a 10.4" Hk416 and EoTech he does pretty well (in the low teens).

Honestly for C/UAS work, a Long Barrel Goose Gun with a tighter choke would probably be better.

 

[Maxman1]

Use the M203 as a stand alone...
The CAF M203A1 mount is a fucking travesty - heavier and sits lower than the US one - and honestly, you don't want to add a 5 lb weight to a rifle or carbine - it makes shooting the carbine more awkward, as well as nigh impossible to mount a decent grenade launcher sight.
Plus in the event of a casualty to the grenadier - you want to be able to take the GL, and bandolier and continue the fight -- not have to take their rifle/carbine too.

FWIW - the Eagle is not new, Colt has been trying and failing to sell that for years.

Should just go back to the M79 at that point.

 

[PrairieFella]

Real Men shoot Skeet with 00 Buck and a 14" barrel cylinder bore Entry Gun
It is humbling like a MoFO though. I can usually get 19-20 with a 22" Benelli M2, and run about 7-8 with the Entry Gun.
Admittedly I know a guy who shoots skeet using 5.56mm SRTA with a 10.4" Hk416 and EoTech he does pretty well (in the low teens).

Honestly for C/UAS work, a Long Barrel Goose Gun with a tighter choke would probably be better.

My 28 inch Maverick 88 is a clay-seeking laser and has never given me any issues whatsoever. They're on sale for 300 bucks at Cabelas, lets buy a few thousand and boom, I solved GBAD, can I get my $500,000 consulting fee now?

 

[IKnowNothing]

CAF 12 gauge 2 3/4 buckshot is usually always 00 buck with 8-9 pellets. #4 buck can go as high as 21 pellets

Oddly enough I was patterning some Canadian made Challenger 2 3/4 4Buck last night- it claimed 26.

~18-21 on n 18" target at 30yds from a 28" mod, but the pattern was absolute ass. Seemed to throw high and low with a gap in the middle.

 

[KevinB]

Should just go back to the M79 at that point.

Top breech locking isn't ideal due to FCS limitations and the fact that snapping the launcher open and closed put a lot of force onto the mechanism - and they where never designed with an FCS on the barrel adding to that -- It is the main reason that the otherwise excellent HK69A1 Grenade Launcher has been replaced.

The M320 (HK AG/C in Canada) and Colt Eagle side opening systems allow for a lot better FCS mounting options that doesn't require the FCS to take the brunt of the opening and closing of the barrel.

Slide open systems like the M203 limit the type of grenades by length that can be used, and while suitable for LV HE and HEDP, they can't use a lot of the longer options in the LV, nor any of the MV options that now exist.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My 28 inch Maverick 88 is a clay-seeking laser and has never given me any issues whatsoever. They're on sale for 300 bucks at Cabelas, lets buy a few thousand and boom, I solved GBAD, can I get my $500,000 consulting fee now?

 

[Halifax Tar]

We got rid of our 870s in the RCN. What is the CAF shotgun now ?