Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)

[geo]

I6
The CG is no longer the exclusive domain of the CGG & GGFG.
Of late, once the two foot guard units have filled as many positions as they can, the spots are open to units in the LFCA & LFQA.  There aren't many franco units from 34 & 35 CBG cause they fill the "garde en rouge" at La Citadelle de Quebec as an area priority.

There are many Sappers & Crewmen who opt for the CG task - and the long callout that comes with it.

 

[begbie]

There are many Sappers & Crewmen who opt for the CG task - and the long callout that comes with it.

And they get to spend their summer in Ottawa instead of Petawawa, Meaford, etc.

 

[tank recce]

I6 - Not sure where you're going, discussing the unit size. I don't know that ANY unit in the CF is up to strength. The vast majority of Reserve units are critically undersized.

Does it matter? We're a Household Guards Cavalry Regiment, with all the pride, history, and (unfortunately) arrogance that goes with it. Trust me, we're also very much aware we're a militia GWagon (semi-)organisation that can't field a full squadron.

My admonishment and reminder that there are more than two "Guards" regiments was teasing, thus the smiley. Your reply... I don't know what that was about.

 

[geo]

RECCE

I6 is back to the old story that Reserve Battalions & Regiments are not regiments but company strength organisations with the trappings of battalions & regiments.... but this is by the choice of the Gov't, the MDN, DND & the CF. 

They are the ones who have maintained the Regiments on the ORBAT - funding them on the basis of Rifle Coys....

 

[Remius]

Hehe.  Yeah the GGHG tends to be the forgotten Guard unit.  Do they still have the horse troop?

As for size, the GGFG is fairly big for a reserve unit.  Maybe 180-200 effective strength if you factor in the band and the 2nd company. The paper strength is actually higher but that isn't really worth anything.  For the most part they always provide a full company at ceremonial guard.

 

[RatCatcher]

I agree like bzz that we (the CF) should mount a group of troops, tri-service, similarto the old guard in the states. In addition, being the nature of Ottawa to be quite touristy, mount the sentries year round.

This "guard" should be chosen on a volunteer basis from the regs and res, and go to deserving individuals who are "highly profficient in Drill and Ceremonial" as demonstrated to a selection board(side note, I have seen cadet units who drill better than reg or res units).  I beleive that this could be a 2 year posting with senior troops (1 year on the monument,) teaching the newly arrived.

but this is only my opinion... and I don't get paid enough to make decisions that high...

RC 

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Ratcatcher I concur with your cadet drill statements.  I wasn't at 2 year postings or anything of the sort I was aiming toward more of a "summer tasking" kind of thing.  We have no spare troops to send to a monument for more than a month or so at a time...

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

Hehe.  Yeah the GGHG tends to be the forgotten Guard unit.  Do they still have the horse troop?

Yes the GGHG still have a Cavalry Squadron (from what I've seen it is really a troop but whatever) plus a band which seems to get around the GTA.

Does anyone know why the GGHG don't participate in the CG, even though they are part of the Canadian Household Division? Anybody I've asked has no clue...I6 mentioned it may be an infantry thing which would make sense, but does anyone know the real reason why they don't participate?

 

[matt_man08]

Probably because the changing of the guard ceremony requires no mounted cavalry.  I've seen the original changing at Buckingham palace in London and there is just no part for them to play in the ceremony.  All you need is three divisions of infantry and one or two bands. 

The blues and royals and the life guards do a ceremony in London but it is a separate gig.

It would be nice to have the GGHG doing a ceremony here in Ottawa.  Or even to have more of them participate as infantry by feilding a platoon or a division.  This place could use the extra troops.

 

[geo]

Hmmm... why don't members of the GGHG participate in the CG?... who says they do not?
No requirement for a cavalry component in the ceremeny as it is presented - but if the troopers are prepared to don a Busby, there is no particular reason why they can't

 

[Remius]

Hmmm... why don't members of the GGHG participate in the CG?... who says they do not?
No requirement for a cavalry component in the ceremeny as it is presented - but if the troopers are prepared to don a Busby, there is no particular reason why they can't

Bearskin.  A busby is worn by the artillery I believe.  But I know what you were getting at.

 

[KevinB]

FWIW TOG at Arlington is not tri-service -- but members of the 3rd Infantry Regiment...

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/thirdinf.htm



(thanks for the save  )

 

[George Wallace]

Does anyone know why the GGHG don't participate in the CG, even though they are part of the Canadian Household Division?

Are you making things up?  I have never heard of anything ever being called the "Canadian Household Division".  The GGHG a Junior to many Regiments.  In the past, it was usually The Royal Canadian Dragoons, The Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and The Governor General's Body Guard, and sometimes the Mississauga Horse, who provided the Mounted Escorts. 

There is nothing stopping members of the GGHG from being in the CG for the summer, as I believe positions are open to all members of the CF Reserve.  The fact that they are in Toronto, may be the biggest reason they don't participate.  That, and money.  The Grenadier Guards are only a couple of hours down the road, and can easily make the trip to Ottawa.  They, along with the GGFG, have old connections to the Canadian Guards.  The GGHG do not.

 

[dapaterson]

Actually, the Ceremonial Guard instruction (about 20 years old or so) states that the guard will first be filled by the GGFG and CGG, then by other units in the Ottawa and Montreal Militia districts, then nationally.  The instruction is in need of a wholesale overhaul; some work has been done, but more remains to be completed.

 

[brihard]

Ceremonial Guard has been increasingly hard pressed in past years. Last summer they only were able to mount three platoons in one company instead of the usual two companies of two platoons. Courses and 'special' shows put a major strain on us last summer, and from what I've heard it's even worse this year- some reg force units have been directed to task NCOs to CG for several months to help fill holes, and the GGFG and CGG can't even come close to meeting the required number of troops... Previously, it's mostly been limited to 33 and 34 BDEs in terms of reserve augmentees, but last year we had a bunch from Toronto area and other parts of Quebec. I can easily see the tasking becoming a national one for the reserves if the demands on manpower keep increasing. It's by no means a 'difficult' tasking, but it's been getting more frustrating, and after last year many of us had no real interest in going back. Add to that the number of people LFCA is sending on TF 3-08, and it's gonna be a tough go to find reservists to fill the organization next summer. I'll be curious to hear how that all works out...

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

Are you making things up?  I have never heard of anything ever being called the "Canadian Household Division".  The GGHG a Junior to many Regiments.  In the past, it was usually The Royal Canadian Dragoons, The Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and The Governor General's Body Guard, and sometimes the Mississauga Horse, who provided the Mounted Escorts. 

"Canadian Household Division" as in the Canadian guards units. Seeing as we follow British tradition I figured we called it the same thing as they do, and this site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Governor_General's_Horse_Guards also refers to the Horse Guards as Household Cavalry.

By junior to many regiments do you mean in order of precedence or in terms of history? According to the regimental history book (by John Marteinson and Scott Duncan) the GGHG can trace their lineage back to 1810 and were the first militia cavalry regiment in Canada, and according to the wikipedia article above the most senior reserve regiment in Canada. Also I do believe that the GGHG have also provided Mounted Escorts for Governor Generals and the Queen.

I know very little about other regiments histories and everything I've said is from Wikipedia (which isn't the most reliable source of information) and the regimental history book, so I don't know how accurate it all is and may be quite biased seeing as it is written by a Horse Guard for Horse Guards.

So please go ahead and correct any misinformation. Thanks.

 

[Trogdor]

I'll be mounting said guard at the War Memorial tommorow so I'll let you know how it goes.  WE are all working quite hard as the first posting will be 7 am and the last post will be 12 midnight.  I'm kinda excited to be doing this though, I was pissed off last summer when I learned of the incident.  If anything it'll be a good public display of military discipline.

 

[tank recce]

Are you making things up?  I have never heard of anything ever being called the "Canadian Household Division".  The GGHG a Junior to many Regiments.  In the past, it was usually The Royal Canadian Dragoons, The Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and The Governor General's Body Guard, and sometimes the Mississauga Horse, who provided the Mounted Escorts. 

There is nothing stopping members of the GGHG from being in the CG for the summer, as I believe positions are open to all members of the CF Reserve.  The fact that they are in Toronto, may be the biggest reason they don't participate.  That, and money.  The Grenadier Guards are only a couple of hours down the road, and can easily make the trip to Ottawa.  They, along with the GGFG, have old connections to the Canadian Guards.  The GGHG do not.

GGHG Cadet - I'm going to side with GW, and say that I've never heard of the Canadian Household Division. We aren't the Brits, and don't always name things the same. Unless I'm mistaken, the Guards units in "The Household Division" are close enough to actually (or theoretically) work together. We're 5 hours from the GGFG, 7 from the CGG. We have a hard time arranging to work with the QYR!  ;D

As to the CG, I'm fairly certain we've sent a number of guys to the Hill over the years, but it's never in great demand. Or flogged particularly hard, for that matter...

George, you mentioned the GGBG and the Mississauga Horse - that's us, as of 1936. 

 

[Remius]

Yeah, I knew there was a link between the GGBG and GGHG.  No household division here either.  There is what is commonly known as "The Guards Brigade", in reference to the Brigade Patch under our berets (worn by all guard units British and Canadian).  Yes yes I know it's not an official formation just one of those terms that is used amongst sveral guards.  But definitly no Canadian Household division.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I apologize then, as I was mislead by what I read on Wikipedia-

Uniquely, the Canadian Household Division is now an entirely militia rather than regular division. The Governor General's Foot Guards and the Canadian Grenadier Guards are respectively the first and second most senior infantry militia regiments, while the armoured Governor General's Horse Guards is the most senior of all militia regiments. All three regiments provide both active soldiers and symbolic guards. The Governor General's Horse Guards are Canada's sole Household Cavalry regiment; the Governor General's Foot Guards and the Canadian Grenadier Guards combine on an ad hoc basis to form the infantry Ceremonial Guard. Prior to 1970, the four regular battalions of the now disbanded Canadian Guards provided the infantry element of the Household Division.

Thanks for clearing that up.