CFRG and the broken recruiting system-Split

[The_Falcon]

I have not lived in the US. Don't know where you got that. I've actually lived in Canada for more than 10+ years. I was honorably discharged from my country of birth's military service for which I have proper documents to present if asked.

Prior service in another nations military will cause delays.

My petty charge was with respect to a silly incident on the campus of a university where I thought standing up for others meant something in this country.

That's your opinion, and quite frankly your opinion of whether a charge is serious or not is irrelevant.

I have NO issue whatsoever with the verification process or the way it is done. In fact I think it is important for the government and the CF to ensure 'foreign' agents or bad guys can't get in. My issues are 1- The lack of concern among the recruiters about the applicants' time/energy/life and treating potential soldiers (in effect people who'd lay down their lives for their country) as mere numbers or files. It is not right. One can expect that treatment in a municipality when getting a permit or in a medical office (not even there) but not when it comes to an organization that is known (and should be) efficient and productive. I'd rather get the 'NO' answer now than to wait months and years to hear that while I am basically putting all this money and energy and enthusiasm to go through the recruiting process.

1) those are some pretty sweeping generalizations, that display a profound lack of knowledge and experience with the inner workings of the recruiting world.  For starters recruiters (at most of the larger centres) are only involved in applicant files up until they get to a CFAT, after that they have no more involvement.  Your opinion's are those of someone whom seems to be a whiner.  Do you have any actual thoughts, ideas or suggestions as to how to improve the system?  Unless you have actual CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS OR CRITIQUES, then I suggest you just keep your yap shut.  NO ONE likes whiners.

2- My other issue is the time it takes to do it.

Surprisingly people who are actually able to follow directions, fill in paperwork legibly, don't have poor marks and/or have recommended education credentials, don't have a history of drug use/criminality/serious debt issues, haven't extensively traveled (especially to less than friendly countries) and/or have immediate family living in other countries, tend to get through rather quickly.

I spent some time working for a parliamentarian a year ago in Ottawa and when I talked to the MND's office about a few issues I had in mind, I was basically told the issue of ERC being so lengthy and horrendous is that there are only a handful of people working on dozens and dozens of applications and the issue is 'staffing' and lack of funds to expand that unit that does the ERC. Now I'd like to ask you, would it hurt to write to the MND and email the said journalist and tell her where the issue lays? I believe these are valid concerns.

There are several issues, however having people such as your self who are ignorant of what is actually going on internally, writing pissy letters to journalist and the MND won't solve them.  For people who do know and/or work in recruiting, there is this little thing called the Chain of Command, which is the correct way to bring up issues and address them.  The "chain" also tends to get a little testy when people do an end run around it.  As well no matter how much an attempt to stream line the process is, so long as we are such a free and open society, and as long as travelling all over the world is relatively cheap and easy to do, a large number of applicants will require lengthy background checks, which will skew average processing times, and bog down the system.

But by all means CSIS is hiring Security Analysts, https://www.csiscareers.ca/en/jobs/screening-analyst instead of whining, apply to that position or encourage others to do so, so that there are more people clearing up the backlog.

 

[Remius]

Sometimes, the solution to the problem isn't throwing money at the problem.  It is possible to make the people in the system fix the system.  It just takes focus and resolve, and people not being resistant to change.

This was an issue when I was there.  CFRG at that time rarely listened to the CFRC COs, Prod Os and Attraction officers.  They had plenty of good ideas but CFRG preferred its own ideas.  Which didn't always mesh with the realities of frontline recruiting.  They were also incredibly Torontocentric.  The problem is recruiting in Toronto is not the same as recruiting in Calgary or BC or whereever.

Our three most successful centres; Quebec City, Ottawa and Halifax would get criticised for innovative thinking because they didn't follow the CFRG model to their satisfaction yet they were able to consitantly deliver their quotas year after year.

The problem is also change.  Like changing something that does not need fixing.  Like when e-cfat came into effect.  Made our jobs easier but it limited how many people we could process.  We went from being able to test 30 people a day to 15 because of space and IT limitations.  We got test results faster and the computer did the corrections but it cost us.

E-recruiting also created tons of issues because of empire building.  Good concept, poor execution. 

It wasn't all bad though.  Having their own multi media unit and being able to by-pass public affairs was a good initiative.  Allowing PAs to risk manage healthy candidates (ie enroll before the MO would approve the medical) was another.  Moving component transfers out of recruiting was also a good move.

But recruiting has many many issues that still need fixing and I could go on. 

Full disclosure though is that although I am still in touch with that world I have been out of CF recruiting for a few years now and as those that have or still work there, things change almost daily there.  I'm only passing off my experience which was both local and national.

And to everyone who is complaining about length etc etc, remember this:

The Government is downsizing (that includes the CF).  The war is over. We are not growing.  The economy still isn't on its feet.  We have have sick soldiers that need help.  We still don't have any real focus.  We have equipment problems, training problems and overall people problems.  Despite what you might hear we've been cut in various spots.

Your waiting issues are the last things most of us (me at least) are worried about.

 

[KerryBlue]

Surprisingly people who are actually able to follow directions, fill in paperwork legibly, don't have poor marks and/or have recommended education credentials, don't have a history of drug use/criminality/serious debt issues, haven't extensively traveled (especially to less than friendly countries) and/or have immediate family living in other countries, tend to get through rather quickly.

Maybe surprising to you seeing as you are no long involved in CAF recruiting is that their is a new system being placed in which no one seems to be getting passed the CFAT. Is that a generalization? Yes absolutely, but take a look at the application process samples page. Do you really think that all these people being stuck post CFAT is because they incorrectly filled paperwork, travelled to much etc.. Maybe, but it seem's like a mighty big coincidence that all of a sudden, new system comes in and boom people seem to be stuck waiting being told "oh we will call you when we are told to you have been selected for further processing." Funny thing is no one seems to know who is in charge of deciding, or when these calls will go out.

I was told by my recruiter when moving my files from Ottawa to Toronto that my file was marked to be called for a medical and interview booking back in February. Well from that time till the beginning of April when I moved my file back to Toronto, I was told by CFRC Ottawa "Oh we don't know when things will happen" while for two months my file was marked to be further processed. So maybe I'm just an anomaly that has fallen through the cracks, but their seems to be a fair amount of people doing the CFAT, then being stopped.

 

[Remius]

Maybe surprising to you seeing as you are no long involved in CAF recruiting is that their is a new system being placed in which no one seems to be getting passed the CFAT. Is that a generalization? Yes absolutely, but take a look at the application process samples page. Do you really think that all these people being stuck post CFAT is because they incorrectly filled paperwork, travelled to much etc.. Maybe, but it seem's like a mighty big coincidence that all of a sudden, new system comes in and boom people seem to be stuck waiting being told "oh we will call you when we are told to you have been selected for further processing." Funny thing is no one seems to know who is in charge of deciding, or when these calls will go out.

I was told by my recruiter when moving my files from Ottawa to Toronto that my file was marked to be called for a medical and interview booking back in February. Well from that time till the beginning of April when I moved my file back to Toronto, I was told by CFRC Ottawa "Oh we don't know when things will happen" while for two months my file was marked to be further processed. So maybe I'm just an anomaly that has fallen through the cracks, but their seems to be a fair amount of people doing the CFAT, then being stopped.

Kerry Blue, I took your advice and looked at the last three pages of samples page and I didn't see what you are saying here.  I've seen an interesting combo of success and waiting.  Some infantry guys getting in quick (ie applied in Dec/Jan and getting offers) and some much more competitive trades like pilot and firefighter waiting (go figure eh?).  Or are you talking about the few people that wrote the CFAT a few weeks ago?

Please elaborate a bit more on this new system since you are in the know.  When exactly was this put in place?  And how does it work?  Beyond what you wrote above.  Please enlighten the forum.

Reading what you wrote it seems you originally applied in Toronto, then transferred to Ottawa then back to Toronto?  I'm also confused because it would seem you transfered your file in April to Toronto?

 

[George Wallace]

???


It looks like part of the e-CFAT ( or whatever it is now ) should include questions on the use of:


THERE, THEIR, THEY'RE

 

[KerryBlue]

Please elaborate a bit more on this new system since you are in the know.  When exactly was this put in place?  And how does it work?  Beyond what you wrote above.  Please enlighten the forum.

Reading what you wrote it seems you originally applied in Toronto, then transferred to Ottawa then back to Toronto?  I'm also confused because it would seem you transfered your file in April to Toronto?

I applied last year hoping that by September I would be processed to the point of merit listing, however that didn't happen and I continued on with my university career. I moved to Ottawa, found a reserve unit I liked and requested my file transferred here. Long story short by the time my file was transferred(3 requests, the first two were "misplaced") and I was booked to write the CFAT, the unit filled the spots. So switched to Reg force, as right now school just doesn't feel right for me. I was told after my CFAT to come back in two weeks to schedule my Med/Interview. Came back two weeks later, and it was "whoops we forgot your background check" come back in a month. Well long story short, those two weeks have turned into 6 months. I'm moving back to toronto tomorrow after my final exam, but earlier in the month had to go home for family related stuff so I thought while I'm home might as well move the file. Makes it easier seeing as I have full time summer employment in Toronto. So that's why the bouncing.

The new process I will try to explain to the best of my understanding, DAA could probably chime in here and fully explain.

When applicants now apply online, CFVRC North Bay now doesn't require your documents sent to them like they used to, instead the files within a few days are redirected to the applicants nearest CFRC. At which point they are supposed to contact the applicant to come in, bring the source documents(birth cert, transcripts etc.) and book them for CFAT's. All applicants now get at the bare minimum the ability to write the CFAT, whereas before I'm pretty sure your file could be killed before you even got started.

After the CFAT is where it get's messy. Essentially you need to be "selected" for further processing by RC's. No longer does everyone get a medical/interview. Their is apparently(according to recruiters from Ottawa and Toronto) a list with applicants who have been chosen to be further processed. It's supposed to take the weight of RC's because instead of processing everyone, they only take those who have decent potential. However the problem seems to be certain RC's don't know how to further process, or select these individuals.

DAA summed it up nicely in this thread I think -------> http://army.ca/forums/threads/114129.0

I'd love to chime in but the little voice in my head tells me other wise but I will do it anyhow.

I will say, your first comment is far too kind.  The ball hasn't been dropped, in fact, it's not even been picked up.  The only answer an applicant gets today is "We'll be in touch."

The system is being fixed and this is the result ----> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/114067/post-1296015#msg1296015

So summed up and in pictures, this is what it looks like.

After you apply online and trying to reach your local CFRC ----->    :brickwall:

After contacting your CFRC and trying to get a CFAT/TSD appointment ---->  :deadhorse:

After you write the CFAT/TSD, what comes next  ----->    :alone:

Where is this new fix heading  ----->    :trainwreck:

:2c:

Hopefully DAA can come along and give a far better explanation then me, but their are a fair number of people who have written the CFAT and are now sitting. Maybe a few of them from the forums can chime in.

 

[The_Falcon]

Maybe surprising to you seeing as you are no long involved in CAF recruiting is that their is a new system being placed in which no one seems to be getting passed the CFAT. Is that a generalization? Yes absolutely, but take a look at the application process samples page. Do you really think that all these people being stuck post CFAT is because they incorrectly filled paperwork, travelled to much etc.. Maybe, but it seem's like a mighty big coincidence that all of a sudden, new system comes in and boom people seem to be stuck waiting being told "oh we will call you when we are told to you have been selected for further processing." Funny thing is no one seems to know who is in charge of deciding, or when these calls will go out.

I was told by my recruiter when moving my files from Ottawa to Toronto that my file was marked to be called for a medical and interview booking back in February. Well from that time till the beginning of April when I moved my file back to Toronto, I was told by CFRC Ottawa "Oh we don't know when things will happen" while for two months my file was marked to be further processed. So maybe I'm just an anomaly that has fallen through the cracks, but their seems to be a fair amount of people doing the CFAT, then being stopped.

I still know people in recruiting, so I am actually aware of what is going on thank you very much, but it's always nice to assume stuff right?  As well, this new system, has only been in operation for a few months, so to suggest it is responsible for people being processed for a year+ is fallacy.  And I guess you also missed the sentence where I said RECRUITERS DO NOT PROCESS FILES BEYOND THE CFAT.  At most if you call a recruiter, they will check CFRIMS to see what is going on. Also did you not read what Crantor wrote?  There are limited positions, and limited people to process files.  Combine that with what I said previously (hell just look through the recruiting forums, and you will see, it seems many people applying can't get dressed without someone holding their bloody hand, let alone follow simple instructions), and things get ground down to a halt.

 

[The_Falcon]

When applicants now apply online, CFVRC North Bay now doesn't require your documents sent to them like they used to, instead the files within a few days are redirected to the applicants nearest CFRC. At which point they are supposed to contact the applicant to come in, bring the source documents(birth cert, transcripts etc.) and book them for CFAT's.

The bolded is incorrect, I have a copy of the auto-email, APPLICANTS are to make contact with their CFRC, after applying online, not the other way round.  Many, many people need to work on their reading comprehension is it is quite clear.

Edit to add, it also says this right on the forces.ca website

http://forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100

STEP TWO: MAKE AN APPOINTMENT
Once your application has been received and verified, we will send you an email asking you to contact your local recruiting center to make an appointment to take the aptitude test.

In the email, we will also remind you to bring the following documents with you to your appointment:

Birth Certificate
Government Issued Photo Identification
Proof of your education (transcripts)
Personnel Screening, Consent and Authorization Form
Personal Data Verification Consent Form
If you are not able to provide all of these documents on the day of your test, we may not be able to continue to process your application.

Once you have contacted your local recruiting center and made an appointment, you will be sent a follow-up email confirming your scheduled appointment.

Emphasis mine, but really the same instructions are in the email, and on the OFFICIAL site.  The instructions are pretty simple as well.  If people can't follow them, that's their problem.

CFAT is where it get's messy. Essentially you need to be "selected" for further processing by RC's. No longer does everyone get a medical/interview.

More or less, which is the way it should IMHO.  Limited positions begets that only those who have high potential should be moving along in the process, no different than any other large employer. 

 

[Winter727]

I see both sides of the situation... Although I've been waiting for the call for a while only due to priority of filling positions (ie. recently only support, tech, ROTP and some french speaking infantry have been getting offers) I actually ran through the process fairly quickly. I'll chalk it up to bad timing as to why I'm still waiting. I also did receive an offer for Weapons Tech but turned it down to wait for infantry. So there are recent issues maybe... but as some individuals have said, there are controllable issues at hand when it comes to long wait times, on the side of the applicant that is.

 

[KerryBlue]

I still know people in recruiting, so I am actually aware of what is going on thank you very much, but it's always nice to assume stuff right? 

Apologies for assuming, however is it any different from senior members on here assuming all applicants are whinny, and over entitled. I have read the vast majority of posts dealing with special little snowflake syndrome, not being owed a job etc etc.

As well, this new system, has only been in operation for a few months, so to suggest it is responsible for people being processed for a year+ is fallacy.  And I guess you also missed the sentence where I said RECRUITERS DO NOT PROCESS FILES BEYOND THE CFAT.

I understand the new system has only been around for a few months, but it seems and from above DAA seems to be in agreement with me that so far it is not off to a good start. And yes recruiters do not deal with files beyond the CFAT, however I guess I am over generalizing the usage of the word recruiter meaning anyone who works at a CFRC. Be it file managers, recruiters what have you, I just use (incorrectly obviously) the term recruiter.

The bolded is incorrect, I have a copy of the auto-email, APPLICANTS are to make contact with their CFRC, after applying online, not the other way round.  Many, many people need to work on their reading comprehension is it is quite clear.

Duly noted, and apologies for the incorrect information.

More or less, which is the way it should IMHO.  Limited positions begets that only those who have high potential should be moving along in the process, no different than any other large employer. 

Well my CFAT had me qualified for most officer positions available, so not really sure what to say to that.

I understand the joining the military takes time, however waiting over a year without the prospect of even a medical or interview any time soon seems to me a bit absurd.

 

[Remius]

Well my CFAT had me qualified for most officer positions available, so not really sure what to say to that.

I understand the joining the military takes time, however waiting over a year without the prospect of even a medical or interview any time soon seems to me a bit absurd.

There's more than just the CFAT that determines what makes a file competitive.

Is the wait frustrating?  Yep. Is it absurd?  Depends on how you look at it and why you are waiting.  RCMP process is 7-18 months.  OPP is 6-8 months.  The public service won't even look at you if you even forget to cross a T or dot an I.

And just an FYI.  A complete application with nothing missing and no hiccups was the exception more than the rule.  I suspect that is still the case.

 

[KerryBlue]

There's more than just the CFAT that determines what makes a file competitive.

Granted, but I'm no slouch. I've been a youth group leader since 15, worked as a camp administrator,  graduated from a private high school honour roll, played football for 8 years even playing for Team Ontario, have 2 years of uni under my belt etc...

Is the wait frustrating?  Yep. Is it absurd?  Depends on how you look at it and why you are waiting.  RCMP process is 7-18 months.  OPP is 6-8 months.  The public service won't even look at you if you even forget to cross a T or dot an I.

And just an FYI.  A complete application with nothing missing and no hiccups was the exception more than the rule.  I suspect that is still the case.

I have enquired multiple times to those who are holding my file whether or not their was some sort of error, typo etc with my file. I have not yet been alerted by anyone that something is wrong or missing. I've been told that everything looks good, and originally me and the reserve unit recruiter went through all my application paper work together because he didn't want me getting lost to the system.

 

[The_Falcon]

Apologies for assuming, however is it any different from senior members on here assuming all applicants are whinny, and over entitled. I have read the vast majority of posts dealing with special little snowflake syndrome, not being owed a job etc etc.

Most in real life aren't like this.  Most that show up here, are.

I understand the new system has only been around for a few months, but it seems and from above DAA seems to be in agreement with me that so far it is not off to a good start. And yes recruiters do not deal with files beyond the CFAT, however I guess I am over generalizing the usage of the word recruiter meaning anyone who works at a CFRC. Be it file managers, recruiters what have you, I just use (incorrectly obviously) the term recruiter.

DAA though has worked in the recruiting realm for a while, so his comments have that crucial thing called experience and first hand INSIDE knowledge.  If you go back several years in the recruiting threads, you will see that griping and bitching about delays (self inflicted or otherwise) is nothing new from applicants, regardless of how things are processed behind the curtain.  And yes being specific about whom told you what information is helpful to any discussion (and this applies to anyone else reading this).  Different people have different roles and functions, and that will colour whatever information they are telling you.

Well my CFAT had me qualified for most officer positions available, so not really sure what to say to that.

And you may have just barely squeaked by, or been in the 99th percentile.  As well (and it's been said numerous times), CFAT is not the only metric. 

I understand the joining the military takes time, however waiting over a year without the prospect of even a medical or interview any time soon seems to me a bit absurd.

No it's not.  Corrections, CBSA, RCMP, many large police services, large fire services are all known to take up to a year+ for applicants, and those are just public entities. I have applied to jobs in the private sector as well, were it was well over 6 months later when I heard back after an application.  If people want to apply for a job and get hired on the spot, find a fast food joint. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

???


It looks like part of the e-CFAT ( or whatever it is now ) should include questions on the use of:


THERE, THEIR, THEY'RE

Why?

 

[KerryBlue]

Why?

Probably because I used their, there or they're incorrectly.

Most in real life aren't like this.  Most that show up here, are.

DAA though has worked in the recruiting realm for a while, so his comments have that crucial thing called experience and first hand INSIDE knowledge.  If you go back several years in the recruiting threads, you will see that griping and bitching about delays (self inflicted or otherwise) is nothing new from applicants, regardless of how things are processed behind the curtain.  And yes being specific about whom told you what information is helpful to any discussion (and this applies to anyone else reading this).  Different people have different roles and functions, and that will colour whatever information they are telling you.
And you may have just barely squeaked by, or been in the 99th percentile.  As well (and it's been said numerous times), CFAT is not the only metric. 

No it's not.  Corrections, CBSA, RCMP, many large police services, large fire services are all known to take up to a year+ for applicants, and those are just public entities. I have applied to jobs in the private sector as well, were it was well over 6 months later when I heard back after an application.  If people want to apply for a job and get hired on the spot, find a fast food joint. 

Granted. With that said I will disengage, and continue waiting and trying to contact my file manager.
If anyone would like to judge my application quality on more the just my CFAT, attached is my most recent resume so for anyone interested.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I spent some time working for a parliamentarian a year ago in Ottawa and when I talked to the MND's office about a few issues I had in mind, I was basically told the issue of ERC being so lengthy and horrendous is that there are only a handful of people working on dozens and dozens of applications and the issue is 'staffing' and lack of funds to expand that unit that does the ERC. Now I'd like to ask you, would it hurt to write to the MND and email the said journalist and tell her where the issue lays? I believe these are valid concerns.

Have a good one!

I'll throw this out to you;  you're likely right in that there are problems with the recruiting system, in that it can be improved.  But here are a few facts IMO that make it so it won't likely happen with any amount of real focus.

1.  our numbers a strong and we always have or seem to have people waiting at the door to get in.  There is a supply for the CAF demand for recruits.

2.  The #1 focus of the CAF is operations, etc not recruiting.  You can only focus people and $$ resources in so many directions. 

3.  As pointed out, the CAF is facing budget cuts.  If sailing, flying and field exercises are all being cut back, do you really think there is going to be a big focus on recruiting system improvements by the top of the chain of command?

I'll suggest, and hope, the answer to that is "no".

 

[DAA]

This was an issue when I was there.  CFRG at that time rarely listened to the CFRC COs, Prod Os and Attraction officers.  They had plenty of good ideas but CFRG preferred its own ideas.  Which didn't always mesh with the realities of frontline recruiting.  They were also incredibly Torontocentric.  The problem is recruiting in Toronto is not the same as recruiting in Calgary or BC or whereever.

It wasn't that CFRG didn't listen, they did and 9 out of 10 times the "idea" had been presented or used in the past and it didn't work.

Our three most successful centres; Quebec City, Ottawa and Halifax would get criticised for innovative thinking because they didn't follow the CFRG model to their satisfaction yet they were able to consitantly deliver their quotas year after year.

"They didn't follow the CFRG model?"  More like they didn't bother to follow the "Commanders" direction and disregarded rules and regulations.  They may have met their "internal" requirements but didn't contribute much, if at all, to nationally controlled occupations.

The problem is also change.  Like changing something that does not need fixing.  Like when e-cfat came into effect.  Made our jobs easier but it limited how many people we could process.  We went from being able to test 30 people a day to 15 because of space and IT limitations.  We got test results faster and the computer did the corrections but it cost us.

How hard could it have been to "ask" for additional IT resources or better yet, run more than "one" CFAT test session per day?

E-recruiting also created tons of issues because of empire building.  Good concept, poor execution.

The only issues I ever saw with "e-recruiting" was the lack of support provided by CFRC's to make the concept successful.  There was no "empire" to build.  e-Recruiting was basically a "front counter" service, answered repetitive questions, collected applications and source documents, updated CFRIMS, screened applications based on PPR values controled by CFRG, counselled/reoriented the applicant accordingly and then send a "clean" applicant file to the respective CFRC.  Everything was done, all the CFRC's had to do was administer the CFAT/TSD and go from there.

It wasn't all bad though.  Having their own multi media unit and being able to by-pass public affairs was a good initiative.  Allowing PAs to risk manage healthy candidates (ie enroll before the MO would approve the medical) was another.  Moving component transfers out of recruiting was also a good move.

You might want to ask some of those currently going through the CT process what they think of it.

But recruiting has many many issues that still need fixing and I could go on. 

Full disclosure though is that although I am still in touch with that world I have been out of CF recruiting for a few years now and as those that have or still work there, things change almost daily there.  I'm only passing off my experience which was both local and national.

And to everyone who is complaining about length etc etc, remember this:

The Government is downsizing (that includes the CF).  The war is over. We are not growing.  The economy still isn't on its feet.  We have have sick soldiers that need help.  We still don't have any real focus.  We have equipment problems, training problems and overall people problems.  Despite what you might hear we've been cut in various spots.

Your waiting issues are the last things most of us (me at least) are worried about.

Comments above in YELLOW.

The CF is not downsizing, as a matter of fact I believe the SIP increased this year.

Will applicants end up waiting?  Yes, some will and some won't.  The problem is that those who are waiting, aren't being told anything, except for "Don't call us, we will call you."  They're not being counselled and their not being given straight answers and in some cases, they're not being given any answer.  It's not hard to say "We're sorry but we won't be processing your application any further but thank you for applying." heck, even the private sector has the courtesy to do that, even "e-Recruiting" did that.  For those that don't wait very long, my guess would be because CFRC's aren't following the new model and doing whatever they want to do.

But now that the processing model has changed, you may very well see wait times increase and or semi-skilled applicants kicked to the curb.  Who knows but time will tell.

 

[Remius]

Comments above in YELLOW.

The CF is not downsizing, as a matter of fact I believe the SIP increased this year.

Will applicants end up waiting?  Yes, some will and some won't.  The problem is that those who are waiting, aren't being told anything, except for "Don't call us, we will call you."  They're not being counselled and their not being given straight answers and in some cases, they're not being given any answer.  It's not hard to say "We're sorry but we won't be processing your application any further but thank you for applying." heck, even the private sector has the courtesy to do that, even "e-Recruiting" did that.  For those that don't wait very long, my guess would be because CFRC's aren't following the new model and doing whatever they want to do.

But now that the processing model has changed, you may very well see wait times increase and or semi-skilled applicants kicked to the curb.  Who knows but time will tell.

DAA, I could address everyone one of those points in yellow but I'll refrain from derailing as it is a matter of perspective from frontline to HQ.  During my time the relationship between CFRG HQ and its centres was dysfunctional.  I can't comment on how it is now but speaking to those I know that are still working there it is still a mess. 

The CF is downsizing, lets not quibble over semantics.  You and I know both know that an increased SIP does not automatically equate to growth.  Trying to go from 12000 class b to 4000 might not technically mean a personnel cut but I doubt your increased SIP can fill that gap.  I'm sure you are aware of the class b cuts that happened in the recruiting centres or the closures of certain detachments.  That is downsizing.  Or the 200 or so positions at 202 workshop.  Civies sure but Civies that directly supported the CF.  My boss where I'm at isn't being replaced by another civie after he left.  They moved a senior officer into that spot to temporarily fill that gap and someone else needs to fill hers and both could be doing better things but holes need to be plugged but were just creating more holes.

A lot of people here can attest to the direct effect a 2 billion dollar reduction to the budget is having on training and ops.

And I couldn't agree more with you about your last two paras.

 

[pbi]

Will applicants end up waiting?  Yes, some will and some won't.  The problem is that those who are waiting, aren't being told anything, except for "Don't call us, we will call you."  They're not being counselled and their not being given straight answers and in some cases, they're not being given any answer.  It's not hard to say "We're sorry but we won't be processing your application any further but thank you for applying." heck, even the private sector has the courtesy to do that, even "e-Recruiting" did that.  For those that don't wait very long, my guess would be because CFRC's aren't following the new model and doing whatever they want to do.

But now that the processing model has changed, you may very well see wait times increase and or semi-skilled applicants kicked to the curb.  Who knows but time will tell.

As DAA already knows, my adult daughter recently attempted this process, as a skilled applicant. It was much as Crantor describes. Although I never had a particularly high opinion of some aspects of the Recruiting system when I was in the Army (and less and less the higher up I got and the broader view of its workings I had), I was taken aback and then angered by the apparent attitude and treatment she received. I was restrained  (by her) from getting involved (which probably would have been a dumb idea on my part anyway...), but suffice it to say that my daughter, who is nobody's little Tinkerbell, was utterly turned off, and is moving on with her civilian career.

She summed it all up by saying "Dad: I thought they were supposed to recruit people, not turn them away".

This bad attitude and strangely incompetent dealing with the public may be tolerable (barely) if the CAF are sitting on top of fat applicant lists and have reduced intake needs, but in the longer term it will be absolute poison. Word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising, good or bad.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The CF should hire "mystery shoppers" of a sort.  Hire  civilians to apply to the CF and track how the civilians and their files are treated by the various recruiting centers across the country and when the recruiting centers mess up piss around or drop the ball, start punishing incompetent people.