CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[Good2Golf]

Non-standard repairs are quite common. It basically means that the issue is either something for which we have no approved repair scheme or it's something for which we have a repair scheme but the unserviceability exceeds published repair/damage limits in the maintenance manual. There are a lot of them on the 148 and they range from minor touch-ups for scratches in protective coatings all the way up to what we've got with this tail issue.

Thumbs up to what AM Sup said.

”Non-Standard” has specific meaning in aviation industry. It does not mean “sub-standard”. A better way of looking at it is that each repair is bespoke or individualized to a particular tail number.

Less my last aircraft flown, which still had the showroom smell to them, every CAF aircraft I ever flew had cracks and I’m certain of it, mon-standard repairs. Can non-standard repairs give cause to have the standard revised, and fleet modifications to be embodied? Absolutely. Does it mean any particular fleet is dangerous? No. That CAF/RCAF operational and technical airworthiness systems and flight safety/investigative systems are probably some of the notably better systems out there globally is a good thing. Even the points for improvement, amongst them the implementation of increasing levels of automation, are being addressed affirmatively. Perfectly, perhaps not, but pretty darn good. Does that mean bad things won’t happen from time to time? No, it doesn’t. However, the mark of a learning organization is not shying away from a timely, honest and comprehensive assessment of what has happened to date and what needs to be done to be better in the future.

$0.02
G2G

 

[Navy_Pete]

For background, wikipedia has some good information to rabbit hole into here on metallurgy failure analysis; if you start running down the trails into the different types there is a lot of info.

Metallurgical failure analysis - Wikipedia

QETE does a lot of this and usually after the NDT is done you end up looking at the face under a scanning electron microscope or similar. Generally they can tell from the physical signs left what type of failure it is and can work back from there to some causes.

 

[TCM621]

What exactly is your experience with aviation?

Every single aircraft that is flying today in the world, civil or military, probably has at least one NSR in it’s maintenance history. It is a perfect normal procedure.

But, you know, internet experts are going to ”expert”…

I'm an aircraft technician but thank's for being a dick. I was making a joke about the word Bespoke and how it carries a connotation of expensive like a bespoke suit.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'm an aircraft technician but thank's for being a dick. I was making a joke about the word Bespoke and how it carries a connotation of expensive like a bespoke suit.

Sorry, but why did you go off on my explanation when you full well know (I hope you know) what an NSR is?

 

[OceanBonfire]

6 repaired and 2 more helos have the issue:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471536072509300741

 

[Spencer100]

6 repaired and 2 more helos have the issue:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471536072509300741

Interesting they digitally blotted out the tail part in the corner of the pic. What is in the section? I know probably can tell me LOL!

 

[KevinB]

Interesting they digitally blotted out the tail part in the corner of the pic. What is in the section? I know probably can tell me LOL!

That's the folded section - so all the interfaces for connection etc would be exposed - plus anything else that may be held in the folded section (chaff/flares?)

 

[Good2Golf]

I think it’s more to obfuscate proprietary structural design elements. The CMDS and RWR are wide open in the other picture and they’re pretty standard, well-known kit, even though there’s an EW/SP nexus to them.

 

[armrdsoul77]

 

[Good2Golf]

Look away!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm not going to judge the CAF/12 Wing PAO folks/whoever blotted the picture out for playing it safe. ITAR, CG, etc...

 

[OceanBonfire]

Tail cracks on military's new helicopters likely due to weight of equipment: DND

The Department of National Defence is blaming an apparent design flaw for the cracks recently discovered in the tails of most of the military's new Cyclone helicopters.

www.ctvnews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/national-defence-determines-cause-cracks-cyclone-helicopters-1.6335495

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just for clarity, the "ESM antennas" are the units in the red boxes on the attached pics.

 

[Kirkhill]

Just for clarity, the "ESM antennas" are the units in the red boxes on the attached pics.

And the weight of those "red boxes", and their positioning, is more consequential than the mechanical load and the structural weakening resulting from folding the tail?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And the weight of those "red boxes", and their positioning, is more consequential than the mechanical load and the structural weakening resulting from folding the tail?

It would seem so.

 

[Kirkhill]

It would seem so.

No doubt the factory will be proven right.

 

[Good2Golf]

Tail cracks on military's new helicopters likely due to weight of equipment: DND

The Department of National Defence is blaming an apparent design flaw for the cracks recently discovered in the tails of most of the military's new Cyclone helicopters.

www.ctvnews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/national-defence-determines-cause-cracks-cyclone-helicopters-1.6335495

From the article…with some ‘practical envisioning’ aids to help understanding:

Sikorsky spokesperson John Dorrian told CBC News the cracks "are the result of local stresses caused by the electronic support measures and [satellite/communications] antenna mounts aerodynamic and weight loads of two objects the size of a beer fridge, which were not previously anticipated."
The Cyclone is a militarized version of the Sikorsky S-92 civilian helicopter, which does not have the beer fridges attached to them.

Dorrian said the S-92 does not have the same electronic support measures and antenna mounts as the Cyclone, and has not experienced the same cracking issues.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

And the weight of those "red boxes", and their positioning, is more consequential than the mechanical load and the structural weakening resulting from folding the tail?

The article does say "likely"; because it is a unique and small fleet, there's not a lot of historical data to reach back to.

 

[KevinB]

The article does say "likely"; because it is a unique and small fleet, there's not a lot of historical data to reach back to.

The S-92's that had issues when being tested as a replacement for Marine One also had issues -- I suspect also had some similar stuff - which may have been part of the reason Sikorsky/LocMart team came to that conclusion. The Marine One replacement issues where all classified so I'm just guessing- but they do dovetail into timeframe very similarly.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The S-92's that had issues when being tested as a replacement for Marine One also had issues -- I suspect also had some similar stuff - which may have been part of the reason Sikorsky/LocMart team came to that conclusion. The Marine One replacement issues where all classified so I'm just guessing- but they do dovetail into timeframe very similarly.

It's unfortunate if there is some previous data but it can't be shared...