Challenger/"VIP" Jet/CF Chopper Use (CDS, others) [merged]

[dogger1936]

I keep telling ya. You have to use the smilie  :sarcasm:

I'll get this interwebs stuff yet!

 

[cupper]

I'll get this interwebs stuff yet!

All you have to remember is that everything you read on the internet is true. :nod:

And if one thing contradicts another, it just means you not smart enough to understand it.  ;D

And Recceguy is GOD! >

:cheers: to you Recceguy!

 

[aesop081]

And Recceguy is GOD! >

He sure is *


*Buddha

 

[GAP]

He sure is *


*Buddha

or  "Sphere" by  Michael Crichton  ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

or  "Sphere" by  Michael Crichton  ;D

He sure is *


*Buddha

:facepalm:

:-*

 

[Future Officer]

Found this news article on the Toronto Star website
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1293568--conservative-government-expected-to-downsize-fleet-of-challenger-jets

OTTAWA—The federal government is clipping the wings of its fleet of Challenger jets, a travel perk that’s come to symbolize high-flying excess.

With four of the jets due to reach the end of their lifespan by 2014, the Conservative government is likely going to be parking them rather than make the investments needed to keep them flying.

No decision has been made yet but a source said Monday that the funding squeeze on the defence department makes it all but certain that fleet of six VIP transport jets will be downsized.

The nine-passenger jets, based in Ottawa, are reserved for the use of the Prime Minister, the governor general, cabinet ministers as well as senior members of the military.

While Challengers have allowed cabinet ministers to travel on their own schedule, free of the hassles of commercial flights, their use has always attracted fire from critics who say they are costly perk. When in opposition, the Conservatives criticized Liberal use of the private jets, which they said cost $11,000 an hour to operate.

Sensitive to that optic—and with belt-tightening now underway across government — the Conservatives have sought to curtail their own use of the jets. Jay Paxton, spokesperson for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, said the use of the Challengers by cabinet ministers has been cut by 80 per cent since the Tories took office in 2006.

“Our government is committed to delivering a modern, combat-capable Canadian Armed Forces in a sustainable and affordable way,” Paxton said. “We are taking the necessary steps to improve efficiency and effectiveness at National Defence to ensure the best use of taxpayer dollars.”

The oldest jets in the fleet were acquired between 1982 and 1985. While no figures were available, it’s expected that reducing the fleet by four jets would save millions of dollars in pilot salaries, maintenance and fuel.

The two jets left in the fleet will likely be reserved for the prime minister and the governor general. The Prime Minister is barred from using commercial flights for security reasons.

The remaining jets will also be able to perform medevac flights when required. The Challengers have been used ferrying soldiers seriously wounded in Afghanistan from a hospital in Germany back to Canada.

Any thoughts on this?
I don't think this would actually happen...... 

 

[cupper]

Now that the previous users were relegated to Business or Economy Class on Air Canada, there does not seem to be a need anymore. :sarcasm:

 

[dapaterson]

One hopes the RCAF will economize and make a single transport sqn that will include the Challenger and Airbus fleets together, with a single CO & associated staff.

Of course, in the Army six platforms would be considered a platoon and commanded by a Lt or Junior Capt; I guess the RCAF equivalent of an Infantry Capt is a Pilot LCol.

>

 

[SeaKingTacco]

One hopes the RCAF will economize and make a single transport sqn that will include the Challenger and Airbus fleets together, with a single CO & associated staff.

Of course, in the Army six platforms would be considered a platoon and commanded by a Lt or Junior Capt; I guess the RCAF equivalent of an Infantry Capt is a Pilot LCol.

>

Do we seriously need to count the number of formation sized HQs in the army? Or how many platoon sized "regiments" are command by LCols?  >

I would say rank inflation is a CF wide problem...

 

[dapaterson]

Don't worry, I'm an equal-opportunity slagger.  But even I find it hard to go from "Less Challengers" to "What the hell is 1 Can Div doing?"


I'll work on it, though...

 

[Good2Golf]

A det of 437 Sqn supervised by a Maj should work well enough, one would think; especially if only the two 604s remain on strength.

Regards
G2G

 

[Kirkhill]

I've been taken by the way that the Dane's have bundled more capabilities with their Challengers than we did.

They added on more sensors and used their aircraft for sovereignty patrols, fisheries patrols, search and rescue and pirate hunting off the Horn of Africa.  As well they are still available for small unit transport and medevac to both foreign civil airfields and northern gravel strips.

I know folks around here detest mixed fleets but.......

How would a larger fleet of Challengers fit in the mix of things if:

It were seen as adding to the Sovereignty, Fisheries and International Constabulary missions as well as contributing to Search and Rescue and also Northern Service?

Is there a role for it as an adjunct to the FWSAR project and also the LRPA project as well as some discrete aspects of the Northern Utility aircraft requirement and even (I whisper this) some aspects of the F35 project?

In the latter case obviously I am not suggesting the Challenger as a combat aircraft but one of the major advantages touted for the F35 is its sensor suite.  There is never too much information and more aircraft gathering more information can't be a bad thing.  In some instances it may be easier to get a Challenger with sensors into a foreign airspace than an F35.  It could be an intermediate platform somewhere between the US Army's Beech Kings and the RAF's ASTORs while still offering transport capabilities and flying time for pilots that UAVs can't.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

How would a larger fleet of Challengers fit in the mix of things

Badly from a political perspective, and hence a non-starter.  It would not matter how the SOR was worded - the commentariat and the Opposition would turn it into "executive jets for big-shot Conservatives"....

 

[Kirkhill]

Probably true but unfortunate.

Especially since it might mean jobs for Tam Mulcair's constituents producing something that DND might actually be able to find a use for.

 

[old medic]

DND emails reveal new questions over Peter MacKay’s Cormorant helicopter ride to news conference

Lee Berthiaume, Postmedia News
28 Jan 2013

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/28/dnd-emails-reveal-new-questions-over-peter-mackays-cormorant-helicopter-ride-to-news-conference/

OTTAWA — Government officials didn’t want to hold the Ontario media event that prompted Defence Minister Peter MacKay to catch a private ride on a search-and-rescue helicopter from a fishing trip in Newfoundland two years ago.

Internal emails obtained by Postmedia News also raise questions over government assertions that MacKay’s attendance at the news conference in London, Ont., was confirmed only a few days before the event took place.

MacKay has been under fire since it was first revealed that a Cormorant helicopter was called in to pick him up from a private fishing camp and ferry him to Gander airport in July 2010 — at an estimated cost to taxpayers of $16,000.

Critics called for his resignation after accusing him of using military assets for personal reasons when other modes of transportation were available, and then misleading Parliament about the issue.

The new documents will do nothing to quell the controversy, which originates with a decision the minority Harper government made in July 2009 to award a sole-source contract to a defence company in London, Ont., to upgrade the Canadian army’s fleet of light armoured vehicles for more than $1 billion.

MacKay and then-Canadian army commander Andrew Leslie made the announcement at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick as part of a broader $5-billion plan to purchase new vehicles and upgrade existing ones for the army after Afghanistan.

In March 2010, the London-based company was about to receive a small $34-million contract as part of that larger $1-billion upgrade.

Government officials initially recommended against the news conference in London, saying it was unnecessary. Instead, they suggested simply issuing a press release.

“For your info,” a National Defence communications adviser wrote to her Public Works counterpart on March 18, 2010, “the recommendation I passed along here was not to do an event. I believe the ‘announceable’ at this time is that the project is progressing as per the plan, which would not warrant an event.”

“Understood,” the Public Works official replied. “I am recommending a news release only.”

...................Article continues at link.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... Mr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP):  Speaking of planning, Mr. Speaker, we now have learned that contrary to what the Prime Minister told Canadians, the Minister of National Defence used a search and rescue helicopter to go to what was, in fact, an event planned very much in advance. But the Prime Minister said the minister was called back from vacation, and an email released to the media called the event “unexpected”.  Why is it that the government has a bottomless supply of denial and cover-up for the minister?

Hon. Peter MacKay (Minister of National Defence, CPC):  Mr. Speaker, as I have said in the House many times, I was called back to work early. That is exactly what happened. I was called back from personal time early. That is what happened. As always, government aircraft were used for government business. I note that our government has reduced the use of government assets, government aircraft, by over 80% during our time in government ....

Hansard (House of Commons), 28 Jan 13

 

[The Bread Guy]

I'd like to correct the Jan. 28 Post-media News story, "Bureaucrats recommended against costly news conference" in which misrepresentations were provided to your readers.

I used government aircraft to do government business. In July 2010, I left my four days of personal time early, via helicopter, to return to work and announce a $34-million military contract while also informing citizens of London, Ont., and Canadians, of the government's actions to create jobs in that area.

As the Canadian Armed Forces pilot of the flight, Major Stephen Reid, said, "the flight would have been flown regardless of whether or not the minister was included because the squadron conducts two training events per day as part of a regular routine." I then left London to attend the Pictou Lobster Carnival, which marks the end of this important seasonal fishery and is the largest annual event in Central Nova. It is attended by thousands of maritimers and was recently voted Canada's favourite festival.

As minister of national defence and regional minister for Nova Scotia, these types of events are both necessary and worthwhile.

(Signed)  Peter MacKay

Letter to the editor, 31 Jan 13

 

[Scott]

MacKay's info machine must be in overdrive, I am pretty sure I saw the same letter in the Herald yesterday.

 

[The Bread Guy]

MacKay's info machine must be in overdrive, I am pretty sure I saw the same letter in the Herald yesterday.

I'm guessing that once the guts of the letter is done, they just change the "I don't like article x" line and ship 'er out wherever needed.

Can't wait for a politician to defend the then-CDS's use of the Challenger to come back for the repatriation, now.....
:crickets:

 

[The Bread Guy]

Remember this?

.... Labrador MP irked military chopper used for fishing trip

DND defends use as 'extraordinary measure,' saying search and rescue unaffected

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2012/07/20/nl-sar-helicopter-labrador-fishing-720.html

(....)

The CF's cops say it's all OK....

On July 27, 2012, the Wing Commander of 5 Wing Goose Bay requested an investigation into the circumstances surrounding a 444 Combat Support Squadron helicopter flight to No Name Lake, Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service, the investigative arm of the independent Canadian Forces Military Police, completed this investigation on February 14, 2013.

“The Canadian Forces Military Police conducted this investigation to determine if there was any improper use of Canadian Forces military equipment. After a thorough investigation, Canadian Forces Military Police have uncovered no evidence to suggest the commission of any offence under the Code of Service Discipline or the Criminal Code of Canada,” said Colonel Tim Grubb, Canadian Forces Provost Marshal.  “During the course of this investigation it was determined that this flight was conducted as a local training flight in support of maintenance to a Department of National Defence (DND) facility at No Name Lake, and not as adventure or survival training as originally reported.” ....