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Changes, needed fixes in Cadets (merged)

Who do you think has the most influence on the major changes to cadets in the last few years?


  • Total voters
    52

Franko

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Alright, Ive been doing a lot of talking, answering questions and the like. So I‘m asking the big question"What has to be fixed in the cadet movement?" I want to hear your thoughts on what you‘d like to see in cadets. What needs to change, what should be left alone etc...

If YOU had the power....what would you do?

Regards



  :salute:
 
i would change everything... mostly id get the trouble makers out without any warnings.
 
uh, how about no. ever hear " theres no such thing as bad followers, only bad leaders"? you cant simply get rid of so-called "trouble makers" and make it all better. its the leaky faucet scenario, people. btw, excellent question, franko.its a great deal of things, my friend. most would easily blame it on the CIC oficers without "real" military experience, but it just doesnt end there. one thing i could propose to start would be to have at least 1 current or ret‘d sr NCO as an advisor per corps, but seeing as there are a few geographical concerns with that one,as well as the HR probs with the CF. all that can be done is what is currently in place; to have an advisor for every area. we could, however, raise the standards for the middle and senior cadet NCO‘s...every one here prob has something to say about an encounter with a cadet who doesnt understand that as a C/Sgt, he is no higher than a PRes or Reg Cpl. i find the main problem, really, is that there is no way to truly enforce standards at the LHQ level.
 
Patti...could you elaborate a little. You sounded a bit vague.

Regards
 
Bringing back fieldcraft would be a good start.

More military experience should be required to be a CIC officer aswell, theres too many "boy scout" type junior officers I find.

Don‘t let cadets abuse the CHAP program either. There are too many cadets trying to get out of doing simple tasks using CHAP as an excuse.
 
Yes, we all want that kind of time in the field, but that would be much more apparent if the leadership was better. I hate to say it, but my major deal with cadets is the poor leadership. (this isn‘t to imply i‘m having trouble with my own CO...he‘s ex Reg sr NCO - engineer). there is a debate on that whole topic, of wether or not cadets should go back to the whole combat trg and everything. it would be a good idea; it would open up a whole new area for cadets to explore new leadership aspects. but i hate to sound like a broken record, its all about the leadership. we cant give a C7 with blanks to a 12-14 year old kid who has officers or snr cadets with little or no military experience.
 
I think maybe the cadets the should actually listen to the leadership. If your 12 or 17 for that the important thing is be there to learn, so if your CO, CIC or a cadet of higher rank tells you this or that... you do it.

McBear I think the leadership should military expereince as well, but way teens treat there leadership as just as much to do with a bad experience. You need to go in with respect.. it doesn‘t matter if hate your section leader at school, at cadets he‘s the boss. And troublemakers should be booted out. I know when I was 17 and in cadet I was a trouble maker.. joked around, it made a difference.
 
getting rid of it‘s "Adventure-oriented training" and bring it back to ARMY cadets. When I was in cadets I was disgusted by how terrible it became, things like CHAP and "Adventure" training, apparently officers aren‘t even allowed to say the word "enemy".

I think cadets had a good 125 year run, and I think it‘s neccessary to disband it.
 
I agree, radio, but i stick to the idea that the leader should be able to handle the situation if a cdt lacks respect. i also know about the whole professionalsim thing, too. but you can‘t always guarantee that a 12 year old kid is going to come into the unknown with tons of respect for his elders (especially in today‘s society), we have to be patient and able to teach it as well. Just getting rid of a kid because he‘s a bit of a hassle is no exscuse; there may be an underlying home situation of abuse affecting how he/she acts at the corps/squadron. i see kicking the kid out as a way of quitting on a large amount of potential. i do agree, however, to expel the cadet in extreme situations.

as for disbanding the RCAC? please. come up with a better argument than simply being personally uninterested in the program. i know quite a few disadvantaged kids who live for this, and they become confident and amazingly socially adept while developing the skills of a leader. they also grow up to become some fine soldiers. im very sure that they would disagree.
 
every one here prob has something to say about an encounter with a cadet who doesnt understand that as a C/Sgt, he is no higher than a PRes or Reg Cpl.
McBear, actually a cadet of whatever rank does not equate to any rank within the CF. In other words, a cadet RSM is lower than a Reserve Pte.
 
Again, sorry mate. I was just trying to use it as an example of some cadets who get a little power-happy.
 
Okay, Franko, I‘ll bite. I might regret it, but here goes.

I was an air cadet for four years, left as a WO2. Bad eyes made me realize I would never fly, so I decided to go as "green" as a pigeon could (uniforms at the time notwithstanding), focusing on shooting and survival training. I had a great time, too; I attended a few national shooting championships, spent a summer in the wilds north of Chicoutimi and another great summer on staff. I never thought I missed anything.

That was over ten years ago, and now I‘m back, helping to start a shooting program at an inner-city corps that‘s lucky to parade 18 on a good night -- while the air cadets in the same building parade at least twice as many. This tells me something‘s not right.

Air cadets get to fly, sea cadets go to sea, but what do army cadets do? Hmm, let‘s see. Oh yeah, adventure training. But wait, don‘t Scouts do that? Yeah, I thought so. There‘s no freaking "army" in army cadets anymore! We were looking through old photo albums the other night, and there are some great pictures from the late 70s showing cadets demonstrating section and platoon attacks with BFA-equipped C1A1s and Bren guns. Holy crap! The universal reaction from the half-dozen or so cadets looking over my shoulder was that they wished they could do that. But why not?

Yes, a lack of "real" military experience among CIC officers can be attributed to this decline, although I also think that‘s a cop-out on the behalf of those too close-minded to see the benefits of a non-military approach to things. That said, I find it hard to believe that a basic primer on small unit tactics couldn‘t be worked into the JOLC(L) or just added as an additional course, like RSO or Abseil Instructor. The rot at NDHQ could also be blamed, as well as a lack of vision or courage of conviction, especially throughout the late 80s and early 90s. Money is always an issue, especially for army cadets and securing qualified instructors for field exercises involving "army" training -- many units simply can‘t afford a weekend‘s pay for a Cpl or Sgt to train cadets. And then of course there‘s always the argument about teaching kids how to kill, something my wife trots out every now and again, ie, "You‘re actually going to teach inner-city kids how to shoot straight? Do the police know you‘re doing this?" BTW, she only says that to jerk my chain -- as a teacher she understands and appreciates the benefits of focus and discipline that shooting instills in young adults -- but your average soccer mommy might not be so easily persuaded.

I‘ve spent a lot time since I came back talking to cadets and trying to find out why they joined, and they all say because they want to know "what the army‘s like." Other than shooting, I don‘t see much offered by the current army cadet program that gives them a taste of the "real army". Kids join air cadets because they want to learn to be a pilot, and they join sea cadets because they like boats (and which I never understood, quite frankly ;) ), but it bugs me that army cadets don‘t learn about what it‘s like to be a soldier. This varies from unit to unit of course, but I find the overall program very weak.

One of the aims of cadets is to encourage interest in the CF, and I don‘t feel that army cadets is doing that right now.

And don‘t get me started about abuse of CHAP, poor discipline and lack of respect for uniforms! :mad:
 
As with every military crse, leadership is answer. First lets tackle the CIC, every corp should have a combination of retire or former Regular force pers (not PRes), those whose expirence is limited to the CIC training with civilian exprience (not the drunk from the corner, professionals such as teachers), and finally supported my a strong group of parents...
The most destructive thing for the cadet movement is to have thier Cadets graduate and become CIC officers in a corps. Here is why I say leadership, because when the cadets come into the program, they only know what they are told. How many times have you heard a leader (Officer) say "yeah I would like to do that, like we used to be able to do when I was a cadet, but now the rules say we are not supposed to do it"... This is poor leadership, that statement may be true, but the kids don‘t need to know it was so much better... Listen, the cadet program has limitations, I think we can all agree with that, but it is still an excellent organization. Leaders in the Cadet movement must use thier initiative to find interesting things that Cadets can do within the scope of the program. Franko, was telling me numerous things that he was able to do for his cadets, all sounded interesting and challenging and all were within the "rules". Myself I once encountered a cadet corps in a very small town, usually these cadet corps are holding on by the skin of thier teeth, but this one was thriving. They has no support from thier affliated unit, they did not have any people with regular military time, but they conducted numerous exercises and activities, and had a strength of about 40 (and by a quick count from me that was about one from every house, small exaggeration). It was amazing, and it was due to leadership...
I have a few other points on the CIC and PRes influence, but most of you stopped reading 20 lines ago...
 
Care to explain yourself Cadet810? Your statement was very broad...try to narrow it down.

Yes I agree that CHAP is being abused. I just square up to the allegations, conduct a descret investigation. If allegations are false...disciplined or discharge.

As for the CIC not being trained to a higher standard...what do you expect from them? What training should they recieve prior to being given a command? Remember...they are a representation of our society as a whole..as are cadets themselves. There are bound to be a few bad apples in the barrel. They are weeded out rather quickly by ACOs and the reg/res volenteers. As for leadership in the ranks of the CIC...I agree that it should be made more apparent that if they abuse the privilidge of their commision and not be the best leader they can be...fire them. There is no need in this organization for an officer to do the old addage"Do as I say, not as I do". I‘ve seen a few in my time...one rather recently in Ottawa. I am currently trying to get the person fired through an investigation that was started over a year ago. The evedence is ****ing.

Good points all....keep them coming!

If you want better programs in the cadets...what would you like to see?

Regards

:salute:
 
Scot937

Some good comments, by would would you say
As with every military crse, leadership is answer. First lets tackle the CIC, every corp should have a combination of retire or former Regular force pers (not PRes)
?

You don‘t think they have any experience that could be utilized?
 
The big error being with CIC‘s is their training.


Regarding Put" ARMY into Army cadets". The Army Cadet league is not strong enough to cope with meeting the demands (financially) of doing extra
project for Army cadets.. If you look at the Air Cadet League of Canada ,they are the ones that make us fly.There is nothing in Army cadets that defines Army cadets (except Para) from the Sea and Air Cadets.

My thoughts
 
Cadet810...so firing C-7s, reppeling, assault boat courses, Wilderness and Outward Bound, Arctic Indoc etc...etc...don‘t count for anything?

Don‘t see too many Air or Sea cadets doing that.

As for CIC‘s and their training...how so? Remember they are your superiors, if their training isn‘t up to par, what should be done about it?

Regards
 
CSS Type, no I do see value in having the PRes members of what I will call the "Cadet Leadership Team" but not for thier military experience. They offer support in what refer to as the professional group. Generally, (I do hate using that word) the former regular force personnel are free from personnel "military" ambition, where as the one would question why a reserve member was devoting thier time to a cadet unit and not to thier own unit. PRes pers who are senior and have some military experience and want a chance to work with cadets fall into the professional column, as thier life/professional experience outweighs thier reserve army expirience... Hope that clears up my opinion
 
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