Infanteer said:
Good to hear that there is alot of fitter Junior Officer Log Os; infact, alot of the subbies I see around these parts also seem pretty fit, which is good. However, the ones I work with are pudgy.
Let's face it, one can find a greater amount of unfit soldiers in a Log Battalion than an Infantry Battalion. I know Vern has talked at length about available time and what not, but that doesn't excuse the fact that commanders have let it happen. The Infantry doesn't get off either - we are a "Pudgy" infantry corps when it compared to the Brits or the Americans - and I said it flat out that the USMC were fit motherfuckers across the board (loggies and bayonets) and we should be asking ourselves why we aren't pushing ourselves to that level. And I no longer buy the pudgy not necessarily = unfit idea - a fit soldier is a fit soldier; a soldier with bulging buttons is, most times, not going to be able to keep up physically fit soldier. All this bullshit about "he can't run, but he can ruck" that some guys pitch is bunk - yes, it takes all types, but we need to demand all-around fitness (a la Crossfit) and not being good in one area. Alas, that is a command issue for the CF and is beyond the scope of this discussion.
I probably should have used the term "soft" vice "pudgy". The CSS trades are - rightly - viewed as soft targets. Ways to improve this (harden) would be aimed at Skill at Arms, Tactical Acumen, Physical Fitness, and Mental Robustness - this is what I was aiming for. I can think of the way that the Infantry Phase training could improve on these, and I was curious as to how the Logisitics branch was moving on these 4 key characteristics of the fighting soldier.
I couldn't tell you - I worked with a bit of an adhoc MAGTF organization that didn't really deal with supply at that level.
In response to this one (pudgy) and your earlier question to me regarding the "hardening" of our loggies into something akin to the combat arms or, as you've cited, the loggies you witnessed in the marines.
Resources. That's the shortfall. In the ideal world with billion dollar budgets, a couple hundred million population base to recruit from, and a CF that actually would NOT fit into the
Skydome Rogers center ... that would be the preference.
There is a distinct difference between us and our brethren to the south however in that we do not have those resources. The loggie world in Canada is not even comparable to that of the United States. In Canada, our loggies (and our suppies, maintainers, truckers, RMS etc) all have to be masters of an entire trade process ... not just one small tiny piece of it. In Canada, our loggies can take a demand from their customer and action that demand from start of process to completion of process; including data entering, quoting, contracting, purchasing, receipting, transmitting through CFSS to final issue to customer.We simply HAVE to be able to do that. In the US, one person takes your demand and logs it in, it then passes to another for processing, another for quoting, another for contracting, another for buying, another for receipting, another for transacting, then another for issue. They have lots of free time in the day and night for PT/weapons etc which is not the case in this nation. It's built into their system because they have the resources to do so.
We just do not have those kind of numbers, but we still have the job to do.
Nor is it a matter of "not worth the investment in time" ... in order for us purple types to learn those jobs from top to bottom so that we can do our jobs getting the front line boys and gals what they need ... it becomes obvious that we simply do not have the same number of hours left in the day to become even close to a "combat arms professional". Sleep must occur at some point throughout someones life. I suppose we could spend 1/2 day becoming extremely proficient in the combat arms aspects and 1/2 days getting our jobs done ... but I don't think the system would stand up for long. There'd simply be no "useless CTS kit on the shelves" to issue to anyone.
We are doing our best to get as far towards "pointy" as we can without the whole support structure of the CF falling down while we're out there, but at the end of the day ... someone still needs to stay in a hold the walls up.
As for your comment about more pudgey in the "Loggie Bn" - 100% true. To be expected though when your primary task when not deployed is providing support and that's taking approx 9-10 hours per day these days on average as a norm ... and when a great many of your pers who are "loggies" are pers suffering permanent injuries who have come over to our side of the house from the combat arms due to injuries that they received while employed there. No worries though, some of them may be pudgey ... but we'll look after them.
So yes, it is the CoC fault that those who aren't on PCats are a little bit "pudgey" (as anywhere), but it's also the same CoC who bears the brunt of the pointy ends wrath when a support function is NOT carried out as a norm (ie: "Mission first" vice "soldier first"). They have to temper their decisions with allowing their pers to sleep sometime too - especially these days when the purple trades and officer professions are all well into the "RED" state but we still have a war effort to support.
We really are trying though.
Edited: Holy typos Batman!!! :-[
